monk multiclass build, unsure of secondary class/subclass choice

[Mr.Unsatiable]

Im looking to make a heartbeat drumming/swift strikes multiclass monk build, and was wondering what some good options for multiclass/subclass choices would be. im unsure if devoted bonus affects fists with trancendent suffering or not.

[Haplok]

Shadowdancer is awesome!

My favourite is Forbidden Fist / Trickster dual wielding rapiers with modal. Decently tanky and simply melts enemies with streams of crits, FF, Stunning Surges that are usually "free" and for bosses Confounding Blind + Toxic Strike (with extended durations due to FF debuff).

[Tomucci]

Sage is generally considered very good for that combo you want because of citzals spiritual lance, because it hits as an aoe it grants more chances for proccing crits, and also allows you to do some melee monk abilities as aoes I think (I'm one level off being able to try this for myself).

Currently running a blood mage / forbidden fist sage and so far lots of fun, very versatile and strong.

Otherwise ravager and shadowdancer make for great monk multiclasses, forbidden fist / trickster is one of the most fun builds I've played. I dropped my ravager because I built it incorrectly and have been thinking about trying it again, but it'd be solid with vanilla monk or nalpazca, just watch out for iron wheel overlapping with frenzy bonuses.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Tomucci

[Boeroer]

Whatever raises Accuracy and/or Hit-to-Crit conversion comes to mind, but also don't disregard debuffs (see paralyze, Miasma of Dull-Mindedness etc.).

• Ranger: several accuracy boosts, can flank with Animal Companion
• Berserker: high conversion rate, Spirit Frenzy + Morning Star + modal in combination with Brute Force (also Berserker Frenzy generates lots of wounds)
• Wizard: Merciless Gaze + several debuffs, especially Fetid Caress (also look at Draining Touch which targets Will instead of deflection + Miasma + club+modal in offhand).
• Fighter: high conversion and +5 PER, Cleaving Stance can proc Swift FLurry, too (if I'm not mistaken)
• Cipher: +20 ACC via Borrowed Instincts and +5 Tactical Meld + debuffs
• Rogue: debuffs and a bit of conversion, Riposte can proc Swift Flurry/HBD, too
• Skald: Killers Froze Stiff (25% conversion) and other debuffs
• Priest: Devotions + Blessing etc. + debuffs (see Shining Beacon, Divine Mark etc.)
• Bleak Walker: Flames of Devotion + Ring of Focused Flame + Helm of the White Void = +30 ACC with Flames of Devotion I guess

Also check out attack abilities that roll the dice more than once (Forbidden Fist, Stunning Surge, Rogue's Strikes etc.) because I suspect that even the rolls for applying afflictions count and can lead to a crit-chain. At least that would explain why I have the impression that those lead to chain crits more often. Maybe one day I'll do a comparison between single-roll abilities (e.g. FoD) and multiple-roll-abilities (like Debilitating Strike) in combo with SF/HBD.

The best weapon in general is Sun & Moon because it has two flail heads which both get the chance of triggering SF/HBD with every strike - and then proc a dual strike again and so on. Even the enchantments (chance to repeat fire ot frost attack) work in your favor because the flail heads themselves count as fire/frost attacks. You an combine it with Scordeo's Edge in the offhand for the "Adaptive" enchantment that delivers up to +20 ACC. Or Tuotilo's Palm for more defense and studyness. Even carrying a ranged weapon in he offhand works because you will get the speed bonus frm dual wielding and Two Weapon Style but only strike with the flail in melee combat. 

But something like a Morning Star in combination with Brute Force can also be cool. Especially the Willbreaker procs chains often for me. Here I also suspect the multiple rolls of the weapon (applying shaken and whatnot) might help but maybe it's just luck (needs testing).

I think all in all I would pick the Sage (Monk/Wizard) since he would be the most versatile and has good potential for crit chains but is not a one-trick pony - which becomes boring quite quickly and later also uneffective against high-defense enemies.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

29 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

• Berserker: high conversion rate, Spirit Frenzy + Morning Star + modal in combination with Brute Force (also Berserker Frenzy generates lots of wounds)

Alias the Skyward kicker build (Skyward Kick is vs Fortitude)

Works with Force of Anguish but a bit less convenient due to push.

[Dalzar]

5 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

Alias the Skyward kicker build (Skyward Kick is vs Fortitude)

Works with Force of Anguish but a bit less convenient due to push.

Can you push enemy to  barbarian carnage with skyward kicking ravager? I know anguish works that way.

[Boeroer]

True, it's a lot of running around then with Force of Anguish (SF/HBD will still work because those are actually applied before the push takes place) - but Force of Anguish has the "hidden" benefit that it will push your target into its own Carnage AoE. Because of that it gets damaged be the initial attack (as usual) and the Carnage on top (usually Carnage only hurts enemy bystanders). If you have the target against a wall you don't have to chase it anymore, but then the Carnage trick doesn't work either.

I forgiot: Llengrath's Warding Staff profits from Helm of the White Void with every hit (because it has an additional hobble roll). Might also be a cool weapon for a SF/HBD build maybe. 

[Boeroer]

2 minutes ago, Dalzar said:

Can you push enemy to  barbarian carnage with skyward kicking ravager? I know anguish works that way.

Nope. It just lifts them into the air. It's still cool because it has a good dmg bonus and there's no immunity against kockups (only against push&pull effects). 

[Elric Galad]

5 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

 Force of Anguish has the "hidden" benefit that it will push your target into its own Carnage AoE. Because of that it gets damaged be the initial attack (as usual) and the Carnage on top (usually Carnage only hurts enemy bystanders). 

I forgiot: Llengrath's Warding Staff profits from Helm of the White Void with every hit (because it has an additional hobble roll). Might also be a cool weapon for a SF/HBD build maybe. 

Ahem, does it means that any pushing attack works this way ? Namely Llengrath's warding staff ?

[Boeroer]

Indeed. With the staff and a Warlock you can push enemies around into carnage all the time. It's like a raw lash then - kind of.  

Clear Out does the same when you have a Brute (for all enemies in the cone).

Also with Amra and a pushing attack you can actually stack Carnage and the Amra-Carnage on the initial target. 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Boeroer

[Porkchopsandwiches247]

Speaking of clear out, does it also proc Heartbeat Drumming, or is limited to one ‘free’ hit per action?

Seems like you could end up with a chain reaction attack explosion with a Monk-Fighter with Clear Out, Mob Stance, and the free hit on crit chances.

[Mr.Unsatiable]

I was initially planning on playing nature godlike for bonus power levels and the ability to swap over to fists if i need a different damage type, but after seeing whats been said here about helm of the white void, would it be better to switch to hearth orlan for bonus hit > crit and the open helm slot?

[Boeroer]

The Helm of the White Void is certainly good. But if you play the game in a somewhat "normal" manner you will only get it rel. late(ish) in the game - so I wouldn't plan my whole character around it. If you want to use a helmat then of course godlikes are out. Then the race doesn't matter a ton. Hearth Orlan's conversion seems like the obvious pick for Swift Flurry/HBD - but due to the mathematical combination of conversion rates it doesn't make a huge of difference. But yes, it's benefical. If you like the looks of a Heart Orlan then I would pick it. But if you would otherwise prefer another race then I'd not sacrifice that for the 10% circumstancial conversion.

If you don't desperaltely want a helmet then Nature Godlike is cool. But if you use Sun & Moon you will actually already do crush damage and don't need fists as backup. So maybe the added Power Level from Nature Godlike isn't that important? Of course if your don't use Sun & Moon and +1 PL might lift your fists to another level then it's def. worth it. 

 

[Mr.Unsatiable]

Im unfamiliar with how the exact mechanics of crit stacking work in PoE2. from what i understand they were additive in PoE1 but overhauled for this game. is there a thread i can find that has comprehensive details of some of the more advanced mechanics in the game?

[Boeroer]

They are the same as in PoE 1 - and they are not additive.

During a hit roll the separate conversions get checked one after the other - until one has success or all conversions got checked unsuccessfully. It's a combination and not an addition.

Thus you can calculate the overall chance (most conveniently imo) like so:

chance NOT to convert *  chance NOT to convert (and so on) = overall chance NOT to convert. Substract 1 and you have the overall chance to convert. 

Example: 0.25 (Fighter's Disciplined Barrage) stacked with 0.3 (Berserker Frenzy), 0.05 (Uncanny Luck) and 0.1 (Hearth Orlan's Minor Threat) -->

0.75*0.7*0.95*0.9 = ~0.45 - 1 = -0.55. Just ignore the minus and you'll see you have a 55% chance overall. 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Boeroer

[Constentin Lévine]

22 hours ago, Boeroer said:

If you don't desperaltely want a helmet then Nature Godlike is cool. But if you use Sun & Moon you will actually already do crush damage and don't need fists as backup. So maybe the added Power Level from Nature Godlike isn't that important? Of course if your don't use Sun & Moon and +1 PL might lift your fists to another level then it's def. worth it. 

The PL bonus work for Swift Flurry and HDD hits (and from others abilities), but for the comparaison with the Helm of the White Void, that depend of the weapon you want to use, and of course your multiclass choice.

[Boeroer]

If you don't plan to use shaken/frighten/terrify abilites yourself then the Cap of the Laughingstock is also a nice headpiece that can help to land more crits. It lowers everybody's(!) deflection by 10 in its aura's AoE automatically which is pretty good. But it also makes everybody in the AoE immune to shaken/frighten/terrified. 

The looks of it doesn't fit a lot of outfits of course, but fortunately you can make headgear invisible.

Fair Favor is also not bad as long as you are using the fitting weapons (dagger, rapier, sabre, stiletto, sword).

Thaos' Headdress is also okay if you flank a lot (or use flanking from other sources such as Persistent Distraction etc. or simply PER afflictions)