Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous, Part 3

[xzar_monty]

1 hour ago, bugarup said:

I don't play POTD, but the digsite is doable on upsaled veteran, also it makes you go creative and utilize those low level spells you normally pay no attention to. It also goes all way back to PoE1, as  I have fond memories of defeating the kraken with whatever I could scramble out of ingredients  in my pockets because I was out of rests and could not sneak back to replenish stuff. Wrathfinder's problem is that, other than buffs and occasional good spell like Grease, low level abilities are completely useless. And I'm talking Normal/Core here.

I also played on upscaled veteran, and while it was doable, I think my argument still stands that it was a lot more difficult than nearly everything that came afterwards, and precisely because of those low resources. Would you agree with this?

I play on Core, and yes, I agree to a large extent. Funnily enough, though, some low level abilities (or abilities that you can get at a low level) are almost overpowered, one good example being that Slumber thing that Camelia and Ember get. Grease is very powerful but probably not OP.

[bugarup]

27 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

I also played on upscaled veteran, and while it was doable, I think my argument still stands that it was a lot more difficult than nearly everything that came afterwards, and precisely because of those low resources. Would you agree with this?

I play on Core, and yes, I agree to a large extent. Funnily enough, though, some low level abilities (or abilities that you can get at a low level) are almost overpowered, one good example being that Slumber thing that Camelia and Ember get. Grease is very powerful but probably not OP.

I would agree, yes, low resources aren't terribly fun anywhere. Ember's Slumber (great band name, as an aside) is the most consistently useful thing at low levels, and she gets also useful Evil Eye. I wonder if she keeps being as irreplaceable later in the game...well, other than for aforementioned Cackle exploit. Grease itself is a good spell, but selective Grease is honest god tier spell. Err...unless all enemies in late chapters are flying f†cks, of course. (Which is unrealistic, but I wouldn't put it past Trollcat. ) 

[Gromnir]

grease and glitterdust are two of the best spells in the game and they remain useful until act vi. however, you need apply both the heighten and selective metamagic feats to get use from them past the early levels. shield, mirror image and barkskin is gonna be regular casting options from start until well into late game. we have archers using hurricane bow and sense vitals the entire game. etc. there is numerous useful lower level spells.

the thing is there is a whole lotta pathfinder spells we would never use and quite a few spells which eventual become useless, but unless you know pathfinder and owlcat's take on pathfinder, is improbable you know which spells and feats and weapon categories is worthwhile and which is bloat. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps owlcat decided creatures who is able to fly is immune to prone, including prone effects from grease. however, not all creatures who is capable o' flight in pnp and/or have visible wings are immune to wotr prone. as such am gonna suggest owlcat actual is a bit more generous with stuff such as grease than would be the ordinary pnp gm who needs ref encounters with high cr foes. be thankful for this fact when fighting the ubiquitous endgame gallu warmongers. converse, in pnp it often feels as if every high level pathfinder spellcaster is flying and a significant % o' cr+12 critters is otherwise capable o' flight... a situation made worse by the fact archers tend to suck in pnp pathfinder with the exception o' inquisitors. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Gromnir

[bugarup]

Ah yes, forgot good old friend the Glitterdust, it also gets a constant workout. Good to know it does not go obsolete. As for spells in general, I'm already conditioned to skip past anything that doesn't have a "no save" or "save partial" in its description, and whoever designed spells that you have to roll both to overcome resistance and to damage must be a masochist designed for other masochists. (Is there any spell where you have to roll to overcome resistance AND to hit AND to damage? If yes, then if whoever came up with this concept met the person who designed puzzles for Owlcat and got to discussing game design, Cthulhu itself would rise from the depths and end the world to prevent the possibility of a calamity ).

I have an idea of Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor mixed with Slayer Deliverer for some future martial run, just haven't figured how many levels of each. Maybe I'll even toss in that monk level for once, since we're going to be Lawful goody goody anyway. 

 

[xzar_monty]

33 minutes ago, bugarup said:

(Is there any spell where you have to roll to overcome resistance AND to hit AND to damage?

Can't think of one. Phantasmal Killer is funny in the sense that it also has three checks -- spell resistance, Will and Fortitude -- but if it passes all three, you know what happens.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, bugarup said:

Is there any spell where you have to roll to overcome resistance AND to hit AND to damage? If yes, then if whoever came up with this concept met the person who designed puzzles for Owlcat and got to discussing game design, Cthulhu itself would rise from the depths and end the world to prevent the possibility of a calamity 

Well there is Disintegrate, though it only loses 75% of damage on a save. Ray of Exhaustion doesn't deal damage, but it also has a similar paradigm of requiring overcoming sr AND a hit AND a save to work. Not very good in a game where every mook seems to have big ac, saves, and sr. Though not as bad as the puzzles.

If Cthullu rose, it probably wouldn't get past Act 4.

 https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/aberrations/great-old-ones/great-old-one-cthulhu/ 

[Agiel]

In a quixotic effort to have characters ready in time for the DLC (of which you apparently import them partway through Threshold) I've created two characters, one a Sylvan Sorcerer going Azata and the other trying to perfect my previous Knife Master Trickster, though this time around trying them out in Core difficulty. With the Sylvan Sorcerer with an Elk companion I've found myself relying far more heavily on the time-honoured tactic of "clogging the arteries," having Seelah and Camelia stand ready at the door, have the Elk companion lure the enemy melee combatants, then doubling back to the doorway and hopefully dealing with them piecemeal (though an unlucky Natural 20 scored against the decoy or those Cambions rolling hot will often lead to a quick load). I'm curious as to how you guys playing as primarily casters were able to get through with a minimum of rests, as it seems I won't be able to kill that Large Water Elemental and those two Medium Earth Elementals with just five casts of Magic Missile and Grease without getting my hair mussed. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Agiel

[Gromnir]

2 hours ago, Agiel said:

In a quixotic effort to have characters ready in time for the DLC (of which you apparently import them partway through Threshold) I've created two characters, one a Sylvan Sorcerer going Azata and the other trying to perfect my previous Knife Master Trickster, though this time around trying them out in Core difficulty. With the Sylvan Sorcerer with an Elk companion I've found myself relying far more heavily on the time-honoured tactic of "clogging the arteries," having Seelah and Camelia stand ready at the door, have the Elk companion lure the enemy melee combatants, then doubling back to the doorway and hopefully dealing with them piecemeal (though an unlucky Natural 20 scored against the decoy or those Cambions rolling hot will often lead to a quick load). I'm curious as to how you guys playing as primarily casters were able to get through with a minimum of rests, as it seems I won't be able to kill that Large Water Elemental and those two Medium Earth Elementals with just five casts of Magic Missile and Grease without getting my hair mussed. 

we played on hard with our sorc blaster and did need two rests in the shield maze. the rests were kinda temporal proximate. we only do the water elemental after making sure lann has a composite bow and seelah has a decent weapon as well as the ring o' protection and whatnot, so water elemental is gonna be near the last thing we do before hosilla. 

animal companions take cold damage from attacking the elemental and we ordinarily lose one. we have seelah use the one resist cold potion available in the maze, activate camellia's spirit power, and buff as much as am able: enlarge person on seelah as well as bear endurance and shield of faith along with bless and the prayer scroll for the party. our sorc character contributed near zero to the fight. keep in mind am always making lann a hunter these days so he gets an animal companion too, though the elemental is neutral-- no benefit from the velociraptor smite.

gonna observe our sorc were near useless in the hosilla fight as well as he were afeared due to the marching terror effect. spent initial part o' the battle running away and then getting almost dead from the spawned quasits. lann used the cold iron javelin 'gainst the quasits 'cause we were too cheap to purchase cold iron arrows from the mongrel vendor. 

good times.

low level pathfinder casters kinda suck, and low level wotr on higher difficulty is disproportionate challenging 'cause you got so few options and limited action economy. the water elemental and hosilla on hard is more difficult than any demon lord fight on unfair save nocticula.

HA! Good Fun!

ps we actual took ear-piercing scream (and grease) for our sorc as we find the daze effect is particular useful at low levels.

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Gromnir

[xzar_monty]

@Agiel: You can just have one of your characters run around the table (must have 30 speed) while Lann and others shoot the chasing large water elemental from the doorway. It's tedious, but it works. You won't get hit once.

[bugarup]

I am dragging the kineticist though low level blues and this guy is so much more useful than the sorcerer that I had to check if I didn't accidentally drop the difficulty or enable some toybox cheat. He almost always hits, constantly crits from stealth and doesn't disintegrate anytime someone blows a raspberry at his direction. He even inspires others to do better because I'm sure Lann misses less with him than he did in that party of the useless sorcerer.  Makes me want to roll a martial character just to feel useful; hey, maybe I will, since the game keeps giving me two handers and they are all vendor trash because nobody in the party uses them. 

[xzar_monty]

I'm pretty sure much of the loot is useless no matter how you play.

[Gromnir]

our pov with having played an azata sorc blaster appears a bit at odds with a few other posters. by level ten, still relative early in the game, our azata sorc/vivsectionist/arcane trickster 5/1/4 were doing impressive damage with ascendent element cold scorching rays. additional, we were generating 12 potential casts o' haste per rest, and haste remains from early to late one o' the best party buffs available. we were able to do a bit o' crowd control, but am admitting it weren't our focus.

by the end o' the game, boss battles were laughable brief on core and hard as our blaster single-handed erased stuff, and we likely coulda' been even more effective if we went enchantment/evocation 'stead o' conjuration/evocation on spell focus efforts. the azata waterfall spell ended up being a dud, but we coulda' had impossible high dcs for our enchantment spells simultaneous to going blaster. also, 'cause as we noted how waterfall is depressingly meh, fire is the way to go with a blaster given all the fire boosting gear. is shocking how easily overlooked is a few o' those stacking 1-point-per-die elemental damage boosts. 

sorc is a good choice for azata as there is a couple abilities/spells tied direct to the azata's charisma modifier. for example, is three teamwork feats we near always take for party members, including animal companions: outflank, seize the moment and shake it off. we didn't realize life bonding friendship functional nullified the usefulness o' last stand, so our seelah had one useless mythic ability, but consider how with a party o' 3-4 animal companions, aivu and your full compliment o' companions, by taking life bonding friendship and making sure you got seize the moment and shake it off (or whatever), you are feeing up ~20 other feats for your party. life bonding friendship, now that it works correct, is linked to your charisma modifier-- the number of additional hits a deadish companion may endure before they go from mostly dead to all dead is linked to the azata's charisma modifier. is just one example.

*shrug*

low level casters tend to suck in pathfinder and wotr follows the pnp trend. pnp pathfinder sorcs become arguable op from level twelveish (our opinion) onwards, and with wotr mythics, sorcs is effective a bit earlier than level twelve.

in HA! Good Fun!

[majestic]

1 hour ago, bugarup said:

I am dragging the kineticist though low level blues and this guy is so much more useful than the sorcerer that I had to check if I didn't accidentally drop the difficulty or enable some toybox cheat. He almost always hits, constantly crits from stealth and doesn't disintegrate anytime someone blows a raspberry at his direction. He even inspires others to do better because I'm sure Lann misses less with him than he did in that party of the useless sorcerer.  Makes me want to roll a martial character just to feel useful; hey, maybe I will, since the game keeps giving me two handers and they are all vendor trash because nobody in the party uses them. 

You can do a martial sorcerer. Toss in a Monk level for scaling, Dragon Disciple (4) as soon as possible, rest goes into Eldritch Knight and you even end up with one free level you can do any class you'd like with, not sure how well Loremaster works for feat progression breaking after all the patches. Who needs armor anyway, Archmage Armour scales on its own. Buff up and go to town with a decent 2-hander.

For fun, unless that's been changed, you can buff yourself with Geniekind* and procc Elemental Barrage on melee hits, instantly Quicken Rod dimension door yourself into melee action and if you want to be even more ridiculous just go Lich and merge spellbooks because when you party, just do it right, right?

*Actually, I think that even works with a Brown-Fur Transmuter companion and their own Elemental Barrage mythic ability, even when they buff someone else. If you don't mind having a mercenary around, that's a nice buff.  Extended Geniekind lasts for a while and it proccs the Brown-Fur Transmuter's Elemental Barrage on your other character's hits. Admittedly that's borderline exploitative, but eh, it's not like the game plays fair.

[bugarup]

Well my sorcerer is level 6 and, while no longer useless because of selective greases and webs, also nothing to write home about. I'm going lichways with him, want to see what's this "merged spellbooks" thing is all about. Oh, and speaking of lich, does it have much need for a cleric or an oracle later in the game? Because 

Spoiler

I've read that Soz leaves and Daeran I plan to turn into AC bonus

 

[Gromnir]

8 minutes ago, bugarup said:

Well my sorcerer is level 6 and, while no longer useless because of selective greases and webs, also nothing to write home about. I'm going lichways with him, want to see what's this "merged spellbooks" thing is all about. Oh, and speaking of lich, does it have much need for a cleric or an oracle later in the game? Because 

  Reveal hidden contents

I've read that Soz leaves and Daeran I plan to turn into AC bonus

 

sosiel's major contribution to our parties is from intimidation, a few select buffs and domain abilities. the buffs is useful, but is likely the lich will be able to replicate many o' those buffs. however, based on the way we play wotr, lack o' sosiel is well-nigh unthinkable. am often using sosiel as our party intimidator. unless you play as a trickster, whomever you choose to use for intimidation will likely suffice, but sosiel is the one potential companion who has near guaranteed fear locking potential v. mid and late game bosses, even on unfair. sosiel also has access to domains abilities, and a few domain powherz is representing the best buffs and debuffs in the game.  if you do not use sosiel, then you are gonna need look elsewhere for the community and madness domain abilities... or you need do w/o.

don't need sosiel buffs. don't need sosiel intimidation. don't need sosiel domains. have played lich a bit and am knowing we don't need such. however, we would much prefer a party with sosiel and seelah 'cause while we don't need 'em, they is the two most valuable companions from our pov. 

...

camellia is also a top tier companion in terms o' what she may do to enhance party efficacy, but is no way am keeping camellia around longer than necessary.

HA! Good Fun!

[majestic]

There's no harm in giving Harm to your companions, regardless of what else they do, if you're concerned about healing.

Spoiler

It's probably not the worst idea to plan Lann as Crusader when going Lich in preparation for Sosiel (well, and Seelah in case you rely on her as something, like bard/skald or more traditional Paladin with buffs/Freebooter combo) leaving after Mythic 8.

However, for casters that should be by far and large irrelevant at the time. The primary advantage of Clerics is having Guarded Hearth and similar abilities for the tough fights anyway. Dunno, never played a full caster very far. 

[Gromnir]

is a number o' ways to build lann so he has access to domain powers. am kinda a fan o' hunter (divine hunter) and inquisitor (sacred huntsmaster) when combined with either one or three levels o' zen archer. crusader is an excellent route for lann particular if you do want a bit o' additional heals. a full shifter build druid should be an option for lann, but we need us our domain powhaz, and am not wanting to make 1/3 o' sosiel's mythic abilities impossible domain:__________.

healing becomes increasing less important as you get deeper in the game, particularly for a lich, but am s'posing it kinda depends on how you play the game. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps complete aside, but another good reason for choosing an azata sorc is aivu. even with the new nerf from the beta patch, aivu is a fantastic late game healer so you may have sosiel or the assimar do other more useful chores. bugarup found azata silliness and whimsy unappealing, which is perfect understandable. even so, as a blaster caster, is arguable the azata route is most effective in spite o' the lack o' merged spell books.  

Edited February 2, 2022 by Gromnir

[bugarup]

35 minutes ago, majestic said:

You can do a martial sorcerer. Toss in a Monk level for scaling, Dragon Disciple (4) as soon as possible, rest goes into Eldritch Knight and you even end up with one free level you can do any class you'd like with, not sure how well Loremaster works for feat progression breaking after all the patches. Who needs armor anyway, Archmage Armour scales on its own. Buff up and go to town with a decent 2-hander.

For fun, unless that's been changed, you can buff yourself with Geniekind* and procc Elemental Barrage on melee hits, instantly Quicken Rod dimension door yourself into melee action and if you want to be even more ridiculous just go Lich and merge spellbooks because when you party, just do it right, right?

*Actually, I think that even works with a Brown-Fur Transmuter companion and their own Elemental Barrage mythic ability, even when they buff someone else. If you don't mind having a mercenary around, that's a nice buff.  Extended Geniekind lasts for a while and it proccs the Brown-Fur Transmuter's Elemental Barrage on your other character's hits. Admittedly that's borderline exploitative, but eh, it's not like the game plays fair.

That sounds like a lot of fun, but mayhap a tad complicated for a Pathfinder ignoramus such as yours truly. Like, in all the hundreds of hours I spent in Kingmaker I used rods maybe twice because I had no idea how to utilize them properly. So I was thinking maybe a classical look of smelly, drooly, oily barbarian or if going less cliche and more Pathfindery, some sort of slayer? You can sneak attack with a two hander in Pathfinder, right? 

Camelia can intimidate, she even has a shaman trait "Intimidating display" you can take at level 2. I have to say I'm not, well, exactly warming up to her because she's still horrible deranged psychopath, more like finding perverse fun in keeping her around. Now Wendy, that's the whole 'nother can of brainworms. I have the "everyone contributes to conversation" option turned on in Toybox so I'm hearing a lot of her lines and OMG they are so horrible, like she literally grovels before the MC all the time while urging him to murder everything for no reason, I don't see how even Rageboy McEdgelord demon would want to take her over Lann.  In certain other universe she'd make a perfect cultist of Skaen. 

39 minutes ago, majestic said:

There's no harm in giving Harm 

[Gromnir]

camellia sux at intimidation. apologies for being blunt. she doesn't have great strength or charisma and chances are you ain't boosting strength and or charisma.

is a waste to be intimidating mobs. late in the game characters such as sosiel and camellia will have access to frightening aspect which causes shaken w/o any save or intimidation check, so intimidating display becomes genuine useless at some point.

intimidation is a skill-based dc check which ignores sr and has no actual save. most bosses, save nocticula, is vulnerable to fear effects, but such foes tend to have stratospheric will saves. intimidation is a fear effect which does not offer a will save. 

sosiel has a background which switches charisma with wisdom for persuasion checks, and intimidation is a persuasion check. is some medium armour in chap 4 which boosts intimidation, which is kinda ideal for sosiel if you go intimidation, but is not a big factor considering all the other intimidation/persuasion boosting gear.  most important is you are gonna be building sosiel to take advantage o' strength and wisdom and with the intimidating prowess feat you are gonna add both strength and wisdom modifiers to your intimidation efforts. 

is something we ain't seen anybody other than Gromnir suggest, which is so strange considering how op is intimidation in wotr, but one level o' thug for sosiel results in a companion who will fear lock most wotr bosses, including deskari, baphomet, and playful darkness as well as dragons and numerous other tough encounters. you not need any complex strategy or scheme for dispatching playful darkness if playful darkness is unable to take any action other than running away from your party. baphomet is no more intimidating than the staked goat from jurrasic park once you got him fear locked. etc.

however, if you do not use sosiel for intimidation, camellia as a replacement is teh sux, 'cause a character whom you is building 'round dex will be a relative weak arse intimidator. you don't need a party intimidator. however, if you are gonna spend the feats and abilities on intimidation, you might as well get use outta it. not camellia is a good way to go.

HA! Good Fun!

[bugarup]

I never considered intimidation because I have no idea how 90% of stuff in Pathfinder works, but, a) no saves, b) picture of hoofed monstrosities running scared from Sosiel of all people is too hilarious, so I want to try,  plz do share how to make scary Sosiel. I'm staring at the feat list like right now and have no clue where to even start. Dazzling display, intimidating prowess, what else, how does he start, what does Thug do, what can cause Shaken, etc? 

[majestic]

1 hour ago, bugarup said:

That sounds like a lot of fun, but mayhap a tad complicated for a Pathfinder ignoramus such as yours truly. Like, in all the hundreds of hours I spent in Kingmaker I used rods maybe twice because I had no idea how to utilize them properly. So I was thinking maybe a classical look of smelly, drooly, oily barbarian or if going less cliche and more Pathfindery, some sort of slayer? You can sneak attack with a two hander in Pathfinder, right? 

You can sneak attack with everything and the kitchen sink in the games, yes.

If you want to play a somewhat straight martial character you could make a Motherless Tiefling Instincual Warrior*, start with 18 STR and 17 WIS for an eventual 22 STR/18 WIS at 20. Take the Beast Totem rage powers, have someone buff you with Magic Fang, pick Limitless Rage and Mythic Charge, then have fun. Take a two handed weapon with a decent crit range like Falchion (18-20) or a monstrous crit multiplier like Scythe (x4).

Can add four levels of Fighter for the bonus feats and drop them into Improved Criticals and Cleave. Mutation Warrior works pretty well and will give you more stats. Take Archmage Armour and drink Mage Armour potions, that actually procss the effect (not sure about the latest patches, haven't read up or played in a while now). Have someone craft them and buy whatever you can find.

Technically I guess you could do the same with a (Primalist) Blood Rager, but Motherless Tieflings synergize better with Instinctual Warriors due to the WIS bonus.

The only downside to playing "plain" martial characters is that the best suited, ahm, Mythical Path is probably Trickster.

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

camellia sux at intimidation. apologies for being blunt. she doesn't have great strength or charisma and chances are you ain't boosting strength and or charisma.

is a waste to be intimidating mobs. late in the game characters such as sosiel and camellia will have access to frightening aspect which causes shaken w/o any save or intimidation check, so intimidating display becomes genuine useless at some point.

intimidation is a skill-based dc check which ignores sr and has no actual save. most bosses, save nocticula, is vulnerable to fear effects, but such foes tend to have stratospheric will saves. intimidation is a fear effect which does not offer a will save. 

sosiel has a background which switches charisma with wisdom for persuasion checks, and intimidation is a persuasion check. is some medium armour in chap 4 which boosts intimidation, which is kinda ideal for sosiel if you go intimidation, but is not a big factor considering all the other intimidation/persuasion boosting gear.  most important is you are gonna be building sosiel to take advantage o' strength and wisdom and with the intimidating prowess feat you are gonna add both strength and wisdom modifiers to your intimidation efforts. 

is something we ain't seen anybody other than Gromnir suggest, which is so strange considering how op is intimidation in wotr, but one level o' thug for sosiel results in a companion who will fear lock most wotr bosses, including deskari, baphomet, and playful darkness as well as dragons and numerous other tough encounters. you not need any complex strategy or scheme for dispatching playful darkness if playful darkness is unable to take any action other than running away from your party. baphomet is no more intimidating than the staked goat from jurrasic park once you got him fear locked. etc.

however, if you do not use sosiel for intimidation, camellia as a replacement is teh sux, 'cause a character whom you is building 'round dex will be a relative weak arse intimidator. you don't need a party intimidator. however, if you are gonna spend the feats and abilities on intimidation, you might as well get use outta it. not camellia is a good way to go.

HA! Good Fun!

The primary reason for taking Dazzling Display on Camellia isn't using it, I think, it was bugged for a long time anway and just disappeared from the menu, it's unlocking Shatter Defenses. As such, if you bild her to use that, it's a good choice regardless.

15 minutes ago, bugarup said:

I never considered intimidation because I have no idea how 90% of stuff in Pathfinder works, but, a) no saves, b) picture of hoofed monstrosities running scared from Sosiel of all people is too hilarious, so I want to try,  plz do share how to make scary Sosiel. I'm staring at the feat list like right now and have no clue where to even start. Dazzling display, intimidating prowess, what else, how does he start, what does Thug do, what can cause Shaken, etc? 

One level of Thug turns any Shaken effect into Fear after four (?) turns. So that's all you really need. Intimidating Prowess, put skill points in persuade and make use of the hilarious amount of +5 to persuasion checks gear that's lying around like everywhere.

Consider making a summoning-focused Ember to hold the front lines until the fear effect takes. It's not like you need her to burn everything to a crisp in such cases.  

 

*Technical explanation: Additional unarmed attacks, Initiative Bonus through wisdom, +2 STR, +2 WIS from the racial abilities. Better will saves than "regular" martial characters. Mythic Charge applies on Pounce attacks you get from Greater Beast Totem. Buff Magic Fang, quaff a potion, press rage and sic the guy at enemies. Pretty simple, all in all.

  

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by majestic

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, bugarup said:

I never considered intimidation because I have no idea how 90% of stuff in Pathfinder works, but, a) no saves, b) picture of hoofed monstrosities running scared from Sosiel of all people is too hilarious, so I want to try,  plz do share how to make scary Sosiel. I'm staring at the feat list like right now and have no clue where to even start. Dazzling display, intimidating prowess, what else, how does he start, what does Thug do, what can cause Shaken, etc? 

one level o' thug is needed 'cause those who would be rendered shaken by your intimidation is instead frightened.  might as well make level seven a thug level. 

gotta think hard on what you want from sosiel. for most o' the game the priest's best abilities/features is cast outside o' combat, so is possible to ignore any non combat feat, but going intimidation means you delay/lose outflank and other teamwork feats which is an issue if you want sosiel combat focused... and another reason for going azata as we functional save two feat selections by getting 'em free through life bonding friendship.

so your first three feats is: 1) weapon focus: glaive (prerequisite for dazzling display), 2) dazzling display (not necessary, but reducing the entire screen o foes to a pants-wetting state is desirable,) 3) intimidating prowess. is possible to flip intimidating prowess and dazzling display, and such might be recommended if you play on core or higher difficulty. as often as not, fear locking a single powerful foe is more desirable than terrorizing the mobs, and bosses require a high intimidation check to be successful.  

IF you are staying focused on combat, and that is recommended, am gonna suggest your remaining feats be outflank, improved critical: glaive, shattered defenses and shake it off... not necessary in that order.

make certain you invest a point into your persuasion skill at every level. 

worth considering: currently the animal domain is broken to your advantage. acquire an animal companion through a domain functional gets you the benefits o' boon companion for free, but am thinking this gets patched at some point. so if you take impossible domain: animal, then you may need consider adding the boon companion feat. drop shake it off.

is many items which boost persuasion and intimidation specific. we mentioned a few/most o' the notables in the following linked post:

with buffing spells such as greater heroism, you will have a +90 intimidation modifier by the end o' the game... if you go azata 'cause there is a couple spells and a sleep bonus which will add another +8-10 to your persuasion. even w/o azata, +80s is still kinda fantastic. 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited February 2, 2022 by Gromnir

[xzar_monty]

@Gromnir: That's really interesting, thanks!

Btw, one of the many very sub-optimal choices I thought Owlcat had made with many NPCs is that they've got plenty of ranks in Persuasion. Which nobody except the main character ever uses, I used to think. But I had totally forgotten about the intimidation side of things, I only thought about conversations.

[Gromnir]

a quick caution regarding intimidation: in real-time, chasing a frightened foe is annoying.  if you use dazzling display to cause fear in a mob o' foes, then the annoyance factor increases as those foes, on a large enough map, scatter to the four compass points. in tb, the frightened foe runs away round one, and even if you fail to be in range to intimidate 'em round 2, the foe needs run back to you, exhausting their move action in the process. in tb you won't need waste effort chasing fear broken foes unless doing so is to your advantage.

unrelated:

tb mounted combat is now mostly working correct, so for dlc prep, we were considering a mounted main and a party heavy on mounted companions. unfortunate, the build we kinda wanted to use, a beast rider/sohei, obvious won't support azata or trickster. am s'posing we could do some kinda legend build. could go cg and cavalier vanilla or cavalier + something-not-monk. 

oh well. am holding off on doing more wotr 'til the new patch is no longer beta or when the dlc is released... whichever comes first.  am suspecting those events is simultaneous, but maybe the patch is released a bit earlier than the fifteenth?

HA! Good Fun!

ps a downside for mounted combat is related to the tandem trip bug for animal companions. is possible to choose tandem trip for a bully animal companion, but the feat will disappear at some point and you will be left with nothing to show for the wasted feat slot save the dreaded question mark icon on your critter's character tab. not a huge factor, but annoying.

 

[bugarup]

Yeah, I figured that panicked running is for TB. I noticed I stick to TB more and more as of recent, mostly because my new parties are mostly critter heavy and it's literally impossible to manage them in real time without serious pathfinding (ha!) troubles, counts tenfold for closed spaces with narrow entrances.  What's with characters' issues with doors in this game anyway? Sometimes they behave like they ain't seeing the open door when they're point blank starin' at it. Also, melee guys and critters chasing after the panickers should all have Shatter Defenses, no? 

On 2/2/2022 at 4:19 PM, majestic said:

You can sneak attack with everything and the kitchen sink in the games, yes.

If you want to play a somewhat straight martial character you could make a Motherless Tiefling Instincual Warrior*, start with 18 STR and 17 WIS for an eventual 22 STR/18 WIS at 20. Take the Beast Totem rage powers, have someone buff you with Magic Fang, pick Limitless Rage and Mythic Charge, then have fun. Take a two handed weapon with a decent crit range like Falchion (18-20) or a monstrous crit multiplier like Scythe (x4).

The only downside to playing "plain" martial characters is that the best suited, ahm, Mythical Path is probably Trickster.

Magic Fang, thing that is used to buff critters? On one hand, would have never figured to try it on myself. On other, it is a barbarian...Also, I'm not opposed to Trickster since it looks more like Deadpool against Azata's My Little Pony and actually was my first pick for Mythic.  Plus I've read it allows to keep some of your Trickster stuff when you go Legend and I will certainly want to go Legend with one of builds. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by bugarup
why do you always notice spelling errors only after you post?