Anime - Magical Girl Anime Thread, hajimarimasu!

[Bartimaeus]

39 minutes ago, majestic said:

How do you mean? Do you not know what her compact is (i.e. the drawings are unclear) or do you not know what a compact is?

It always looks like this, and...I just can't tell what I'm looking at. It almost looks like an impossible object. On a side-note, Minako doesn't use her compact to transform into Sailor Venus, she has a pen for that. Yes, she uses her compact to transform into everything BUT Sailor Venus - don't ask me.

 

[majestic]

19 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

It always looks like this, and...I just can't tell what I'm looking at. It almost looks like an impossible object.

That's Geordi's and Data's impossible geometric shape they designed to kill all Borg before Picard decided it would be genocide.

20 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

On a side-note, Minako doesn't use her compact to transform into Sailor Venus, she has a pen for that. Yes, she uses her compact to transform into everything BUT Sailor Venus - don't ask me.

Ah, okay, then things really changed a bit for Sailor Moon, I wonder how the issues are going to be once they started to run concurrently.

[majestic]

Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, Episode 20.

First time this season stumbles a bit, not counting the bits and pieces of not really necessary fanservice (especially that boob rub).

Looks like they ran out of time to explain parts of the storyline organically so there's a bit of an exposition dump by the Doctor when his cadre of cyborgs starts asking questions about what's going on, and the High Council - the disembodied voices:

Spoiler

Turn out to be disembodied brains that get killed by Due.

Before that they talk to each other telling each other things they would already know.

It's not very long, and doesn't dump too much, but it's kind of odd to see. Anyway, the endgame is here, and everyone had their limiters deacitvated. Guess there's no point in holding back in the face of annihilation.

The cyborgs asking questions kind of make sense, a few of them are still children, at least mentally. The other exposition is... yeah. Well, it is what it is. 19 episodes before the first slight trip was pretty good though.

I'm honestly surprised at the consistently high quality of this season.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

JoJo Stardust Crusaders 16 and 17: Steely Dan's The Lovers

I think this arc had the notable fact of having the longest beatdown before part 5, and god damn if anyone deserved it more than ol' Steely Dan. 1 minute of One thing that I like about Stands vs Hamon is that the ideas behind STANDO POWAH are way more creative.

[majestic]

Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Strikers, Episode 21:
 

Spoiler

The newbie team makes a grave error in judgement and ends up being split into three groups. Tia is on her own, as is Subaru. Caro and Erio flew after the Summoner girl, Lutecia. While Subaru meets her now brainwashed/reprogrammed sister in battle, Tia is up against three of the cyborgs, in an enclosed space that makes it hard for her to make use of her superior range, and her mobility took a "bit" of a hit in the form of a nasty gash across her leg.

Two thirds throught the episode there's a scene that raises every death flag in the book.

Couple of minutes later:

Vita is one of the Book of the Night Sky's defense programs and not really human, but... magic or no, that's going to be tough to survive.

Cue end of episode. Prior episodes suggested that the defense programs' ability to regenerate has taken a hit since being decoupled from the book. Vita not getting through this seems somewhat likely now.

edit:

Huh, when the Doctor activated the Mana Fortress, a countdown of three hours started until it reaches a point where it can deploy it's full force. At the end of episode 22, that's at one hour and 44 minutes, or 104 minutes. 4 episodes left with 25 minutes runtime each.

Looks an awful lot like they actually planned that countdown out. I hope that doesn't mean the season just ends after wrapping the storyline up. The final episodes that consisted mostly of character moments were the highlights of the first two seasons.

edit 2:

Wanting Nanoha to simply MURDER DEATH KILL Quattro is a bit like wanting Anime!Usagi or Steven to simply destroy their enemies, but Quattro is really working hard on making me hope that Nanoha will just blast her out of existence, even though that's totally out of character for her.

edit 3:

Spoiler

Vivio goes full BRACK RADY. Oh boy.

edit 4:

Tia finally lets go of her shounen overdrive mode and thinks her way out of the bind she's in. I approve.

Edited November 21, 2021 by majestic

[majestic]

Binged the final six episodes.

What else can I say that I haven't posted about. There's a certain amount of fanservice, the final episodes have some more of that really bad CGI as the Cradle of the Holy King is CGI whenever it is moving around. The story came to a close wihout any major asspulls which is fairly surprising, but it's not nearly as complicated as it at first seemed. A couple of things seemed rushed and could have usde an episode or two of setup. There was nothing indicating that Vivio would or could

Spoiler

turn into Black Lady (the character). She instantly ages up, gets some big boob fanservice in the transformation sequence and then has a fight with Nanoha.

I kind of wish we could spoiler sentences without these huge spoiler tags, but hey, one needs to be happy that the forum software is working at all.

Nanoha does blast Quattro with a yuuuuuuuuuge laz0r beam, but sadly that turned out to be non-lethal. That girl's not right in the head. That's what you get for being a cheap knockoff of a character that killed the great Eudial.

Spoiler

Vita also pulls through. I don't want to bemoan a character not dying, but that feels like something that should have been happened. It was set up quite nicely, but then Hayate swoops in and saves her.

 

Anyway, this season would mostly work without watching Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha or Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha A's first, but it does help understand where some of the characters' personality traits come from. StrikerS is, however, a huge step up in quality over the first two. It's less melancholic, aging up the girls finally gives a little sense to their otherwise overexaggerated maturity, the characters are better defined and the storyline is better written too.

It does make a few mistakes here and there. It never fully commits to whatever relationship Fate and Nanoha have - or don't have. Other than them living together and sort of adopting Vivio - which is a lot to work with, though - there's never anything that would fully confirm that Nanoha isn't blushing around Yuuno out of interest. Yuuno certainly is interested, he said as much in a throwaway line about being happy to spend more time with Nanoha.

That's a bit of a missed chance, all in all.

The antagonists this season are different from the ones in the first season and A's by virtue of being closer to actual villains. Contrasted with the first season that has a mother trying to revive her lost daugther and a group of warrior mages trying to find a way to help their paralyzed mistress that's a step down.

Spoiler

In the end, the Doctor is a sci-fi pulp serial level mad scientist, and while some of his creations talk to each other and wonder what the point is, ultimately nothing comes of it. The show simply is over before their diverging viewpoints become actual points of contention amongst each other.

Only the characters that were never loyal to the Doctor in the first place end up doing something else, but even then that just takes a moving part out of the final confrontation.

Still, I'd give this a recommendation. The 26 episodes of StrikerS are a good mix of action, character moments, slower parts and decent pacing throughout. Never a boring episode, not one that is a waste of time and just one that dumps a bit too much exposition on the viewer, and for something that's essetially a "serious" magical girl anime with a strong sci-fi bent there's plenty of times when reckless shounen nonsense isn't just commented on, but shown to be dangerous. I've stated it a hundred times, but one last shall it be: This doesn't have any comedic elements. There's a laugh here and there, but don't expect something fun. This is serious business. If you ever wondered how a Sailor Moon serious mode storyline would go when it's better written but less well animated, here's your chance.

The final fight, when everyone starts using their "limit breaker" spells, it comes back to being a bit of a JRPG. It's a nice mechanic, in games, building up to a special move, really, but in an anime it's a bit silly to wait instead of just finishing your opponent in one blast, but even so, that's a bit of a throwback to 80ies action anime. Or Power Rangers - or any other show that features a similar way of combat.

I'll say this once more, if you want to give all of it a run, take care with the fifth episode of the first season. Skip the part in the bath's changing room to protect your sanity, or the entire episode, it's bad and you won't miss much. It still does have a copious amount of nudity, most of which can be explained away by genre convetions.

 

[Bartimaeus]

51 minutes ago, majestic said:

I kind of wish we could spoiler sentences without these huge spoiler tags, but hey, one needs to be happy that the forum software is working at all.

Yeah, I prefer spoiler tags that simply blank out the text until you mouse over them a la Steam. ...Plus, that seems like it'd probably cause less problems than basically having a collapsing quote box like it currently is, given the forum's issues with...that.

It's...difficult to envision myself ever enjoying Nanoha. I mean, I know I'm the one that prognosticated it actually being alright, but I meant for other more general viewers - i.e. not me. To me, it looks like the kind of show where they took Sailor Moon, got rid of all the things I really liked, and amped up most of the things I either was ambivalent about or outright disliked. Combine that with the style of the show (in a multitude of ways) being not even remotely close to appealing, and eh... I think there's a much better chance I enjoy K-On than Nanoha, .

Edited November 22, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Gorth]

Hmm... Mieruko-chan 8 is out. Get it or wait until all 12 episodes of the season is released?... hard choices

Edit: A trailer. Not episode specific, but just for first handful of episodes

 

[Amentep]

Supēsu Kobura aka Space Cobra aka Space Adventure Cobra, episode 3: "Shukuteki! Kurisutaru Bōi" aka "Archenemy! Crystal Bowie"

This episode starts what seems to be a mini-arc

Cobra goes to his grave and runs into a bounty hunter; oddly the bounty hunter seems uninterested in Cobra's bounty after they save one another.  Turns out she's trying to find her two sisters who have corresponding tattoos that allegedly combine to provide a map to a legendary treasure.  Cobra's grave contains a secret underground docking bay for his ship, which he and the bounty hunter use to escape from Bowie

We get an interestingly weird villain and an adventurous direction for Cobra and Lady Armaroid to follow.

 

[majestic]

19 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Yeah, I prefer spoiler tags that simply blank out the text until you mouse over them a la Steam. ...Plus, that seems like it'd probably cause less problems than basically having a collapsing quote box like it currently is, given the forum's issues with...that.

Well, that's something we'll probably never know, because this forum software is as mysterious as Instrumentality.

19 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

It's...difficult to envision myself ever enjoying Nanoha. I mean, I know I'm the one that prognosticated it actually being alright, but I meant for other more general viewers - i.e. not me. To me, it looks like the kind of show where they took Sailor Moon, got rid of all the things I really liked, and amped up most of the things I either was ambivalent about or outright disliked. Combine that with the style of the show (in a multitude of ways) being not even remotely close to appealing, and eh... I think there's a much better chance I enjoy K-On than Nanoha, .

I wonder if this will turn into an essay now. Turns out it almost did, spoiler tagged for brevity. SOME Nanoha spoilers, so anyone else who might want to try it beware.

Spoiler

In general I would agree with your assessment there. Nanoha is, at its core, vis a vis other similar offerings you liked - at least in terms of pure genre, i.e. magical girl shows, much less grounded, and I would include Sailor Moon in that, although that is less grounded than Sakura (but arguably stronger in characters and interest in terms of the age thereof).

This begins with the fact that Nanoha is nine years old but never acts like it and ends with the sometimes ridiculous feel of watching a JRPG play out when it comes to the action sequences. Even as riddled with stock footage as Sailor Moon was, it never felt like watching a roleplaying game play out without any input. Nanoha does that, like all the time in its first two seasons. StrikerS is much improved, but even then kind of suffers from a setup that includes a tank, ranged and melee deeps and a support character. While there is healing magic, it doesn't work like in games, but it's pretty close to a warrior, rogue, mage and priest setup. I don't know of you ever played Star Rogues, but it even looks a bit like that.

It is perhaps the biggest differences to other magical girl animes, for many watchers the reason to watch it in the first place, that makes it problematic: It's serious without being a deconstruction, and Nanoha never shies from being a magical girl, and never grapples with her decisions, at least not until she's an adult in StrikerS. In a way, that gives her a childlike certainty that is replaced with adult worries in StrikerS, but in reality, there's no way any actual nine year old would behave the way she does, Japanese, Western or otherwise. Where Usagi needs 24 episodes before even semi-accepting that she has a responsibility to save people by directly coming to the aid of Naru (and Nephrite, in a way, to no avail though), Nanoha is "yeah, I'm okay with that, cool!" right from the start.

The first two seasons, outside of Nanoha and Fate, also suffer from a lack of character development, even though some time is spent on developing the Belkan Knights in A's. I'm not sure where to put the melancholic feel of the first two seasons compared to Miyu, which you liked. I'm lacking information to make a more accurate statement, however I do believe that the combination of a lack of grounding and the opressive melancholy will not be appealing to you.

That essentially leaves StrikerS, which I thoroughly enjoyed, but is probably still too much action and not enough character interactions for you - never mind losing its gounding entirely, being set on an alien world with no ties to Earth at all, copious amounts of sci-fi elements and a plot that begins as more interesting and intricate than it eventually turns out to be. That said, the entire season is really strong in terms of writing - or at least in terms of appearing planned ahead and setup with pay off. The quality of the dialogue in Japanese I can't gauge, the subtitles were fine, although I think they were part of a fansub project.

Then there are the downsides that come with apparently any seinen show insofar as that a certain amount of fanservice is apparently a must, and that fifth episode in the first season that is an outlier that never again happens, so who knows, maybe someone was forced into committing sepukku over it. The fanservice is also never used as anything else, unlike in Neon Genesis Evangelion where it sometimes (alas not always) serves a purpose, although Misato sometimes is a victim of having pointless focus on her behind (like literally within the first two minutes of her showing up).

The question it becomes, ultimately, is whether or not what's really good in StrikerS is good enough to keep you interested, and that's something I can't really answer for sure. What I can say for sure is that you're right: You're a lot more likely to enjoy K-On! than Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha StrikerS, and you're almost guaranteed to give the first season and A's the "X" treatment - you're probably not going to hate it (unless you watch episode 5 in full), but it's not going to move out of "meh" or "don't care" territory.

From a purely observational perspective I wouldn't mind you trying StrikerS to expand my frame of reference for future suggestions, but certainly not at the expense of delaying K-On! or Princess Tutu even more (or finishing Cardcaptor Sakura, now that it's almost over).

It's much easier to know when you'll hate something than it is to know where to put an anime like Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha StrikerS. It occupies a position somewhere close to the Sailor Moon Sailor Stars filler arc (just with a lot more sci-fi), but that arc is the culmination of hating almost an entire preceeding season and characters you loved more than you will like any of the characters in Nanoha.

Well was that a ramble, huh?

TL;DR:

If you ever feel like it and have the time (and nothing better to do), try StrikerS and give it more than the opening episode that's a little more actiony than the next 10 or so episodes, unless you immediately despise the setup. You're probably not going to finish watching it, but I'd still be curious what you'll make of it - if only to improve my ability to prognosticate.

The anime's biggest problem is answering the question: Why should I watch this instead of something else? That's a question I can't answer beyond Nanoha is different than other magical girl heroines and... that's pretty much it. It never fully shakes the feeling that you're watching something that's nice to watch, occasionaly fun, sometimes great, but ultimately nothing truly outstanding. It feels a bit like listening to an album of a genre of music you liked when you were younger but feel you've grown out of, or a new album of a group you liked that feels like they're becoming a bit stale. You might still enjoy it, you can see (well, hear) all the elements that made you enjoy this in the past, it's really well crafted perhaps, but it's not... that special any more. Does that make sense?

No, probably not. It also makes it sound worse than it is. StrikerS moves the show out of being completely derivative, but at the same time introduces some staler elements to the plot, and the Doctor sometimes feels like a less fun Professor Tomoe.

Great, now I've confused myself. On a "out of 10" rating it feels like this is a 7/10 if a 7/10 represents the upper bounds of what something can achieve without being truly special or meaningful. Because if nothing else, a lot of care and planning went into setting up StrikerS, and that has to count for something. It's a well crafted little season, to borrow something Jay would say. One might not like the genre, and therefore it becomes something most likely - perhaps not uninteresting or loathesome, but not worth investing time in.

It kind of feels unfair to rate this 7/10 even though I was surprised how well crafted and of high quality StrikerS felt, but in the light of truly great entertainment that transcends genre interest, what else could I put it at? In some ways, 7/10 isn't high enough for my personal enjoyment of StrikerS, on the other hand, at the same time it feels like it's too much because I entirely enjoyed this more than I probably should have.

How do you rate guilty pleasures?

[majestic]

16 hours ago, Gorth said:

Hmm... Mieruko-chan 8 is out. Get it or wait until all 12 episodes of the season is released?... hard choices

Edit: A trailer. Not episode specific, but just for first handful of episodes

 

That looked semi-interesting until it suddenly didn't any more, how much of that big boobie girl is in this and just how constant are these attempts to make me feel something for animated characters down south where they never once mattered to me? 

Don't get me wrong, I often end up caring for animated characters more than live action characters, but enjoying fanservice for what it's supposed to be? Uh... no, I just don't work that way. No one should.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

27 minutes ago, majestic said:

How do you rate guilty pleasures?

On a scale of OH MY GOD! to Bueno Excellente.

[InsaneCommander]

On 11/20/2021 at 9:44 PM, KP Cross Split Attack said:

JoJo Stardust Crusaders 16 and 17: Steely Dan's The Lovers

I think this arc had the notable fact of having the longest beatdown before part 5, and god damn if anyone deserved it more than ol' Steely Dan. 1 minute of One thing that I like about Stands vs Hamon is that the ideas behind STANDO POWAH are way more creative.

And that still applies to the Egypt arc. Each episode (or pair) brings a completely different story and "fight". That is not something you see in every tv show.

 

Stardust Crusaders: Egypt 1-5

 

Izzy is a nice addition, but

 

Spoiler

He better be really careful since we all know what happened to every dog so far.

Polnareff still can't remember that he can create multiple Silver Chariots. And this would be helpful in what? Basically every episode?

 

The brothers episode was hilarious. Jojo and Polnaref didn't even notice those guys! And they literally got their asses kicked despite having a Stando that can see the future.

Not to mention that Joseph and Polnareff were so dumb they couldn't see what was going on even after suspecting "JoJo" was actually an imposter.

Btw, did Polnareff really forget he threw the cigarette that set the shop on fire? 

 

Anubis was interesting, especially since it showed us that a Stando can exist on its own. Do they have free will? What Standos have we seen so far that might have survived on their own?

 

Also, who would win, Kars or Stando users?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, InsaneCommander said:

Also, who would win, Kars or Stando users?

Kars.

As the Ultimate Lifeform, he can make his own Stands. This actually happened in a JoJo spinoff lmao.

I think it's funny how Iggy stopped both Oingo Boingo Brothers and Anubis by trying to grab a snack.

 

[Bartimaeus]

6 hours ago, majestic said:

It kind of feels unfair to rate this 7/10 even though I was surprised how well crafted and of high quality StrikerS felt, but in the light of truly great entertainment that transcends genre interest, what else could I put it at? In some ways, 7/10 isn't high enough for my personal enjoyment of StrikerS, on the other hand, at the same time it feels like it's too much because I entirely enjoyed this more than I probably should have.

How do you rate guilty pleasures?

For me, a 5/10 is "poor", 6/10 is "alright", 7/10 is "good", 8/10 is "great", 9/10 is "fantastic", and "10/10" would be perfect. And with my 75% subjective/25% objective rule, if you thought something was truly objectively trash but you love it anyways, 7 to maybe 7.5 is about the highest that I'd ever give it. From the sounds of it, you don't think it's particularly close to trash, but you also didn't quite love it, so maybe 7/10 is just about right. I give out 6-7/10s pretty easily - as long as I mostly enjoyed it and it wasn't actually badly made, it's not too difficult to get that 6 or 7. 8 and above is what's difficult, because an 8 is supposed to be "great", and what is "great" does not come around very often in my eyes.

I think I've said this before, but when I watch RLM videos about movies/shows, I evaluate not just whether they liked it, but what they actually say about it. They may call something fantastic, one of their all-time favorites, one of the best things they've seen in years, etc., but I may very well know right off the bat from what they actually say about it that it doesn't appeal to me at all and there's almost zero chance of me enjoying it, so I don't care about it at all, and just watch their video for entertainment. On the other hand, they may say they simply liked something and get just a few sentences into actually talking about it before I close the video because I already know I want to watch it before they really go in-depth into it, and I'll watch the rest of the video after I've seen it. In a way, the same kind of process applies to your posts when you talk about a show like Nanoha - it's not just whether you or somebody else likes it (even if I implicitly trust the judgement of the person talking about it!), the specific things mentioned about it are what actually informs me whether I think I'd enjoy or hate it.

It's a style and artistry thing. Miyu is a bit dark and definitely tragic, but it isn't really over-dramatic in your typical ANIME DRAMA fashion. The show isn't constantly trying to hammer into me the idea that Miyu's circumstances sure are the Big Sad, or that she's this totally normal and relatable character, or heck, that we should even necessarily be rooting for her at all times. Miyu was a show where one moment, she expressed concern because she heard a woman's scream far off in the distance, and literally the next moment she smiled and basically said "all is right with the world" because her fears were apparently assuaged when she then saw a dude jump off like a fourth floor balcony to his death. It was a show where I initially strongly disliked one of the secondary "protagonists" in Reiha, that I actually then started to like when she instead became a primary antagonist because I, like her, started to question Miyu and her methods and what she had been taught and thought that hey, maybe Reiha actually has a point here (even if I don't necessarily agree with her entire outlook either) and also, what she has personally had to deal with has kind of been a rough deal as well. It's a dark but soft and grounded anti-magical girl show at its core, with some unusual interfacing of smaller, nicer character moments and dark ideas and themes. It wasn't a perfect show by any means, but it's the only one of its type and it worked for me.

But most importantly (), it's a show where the promotional posters look more like...

...instead of...

The style, the artistry, the intended tone, the appeal, the...everything is, uh, a little different, to say the least. As always, I'm a big believer in shows/movies being what they're selling themselves in at least tone, style, and intended audience, and Miyu literally immediately interested me based off of what it was selling itself as soon as I saw it and and it held up its end of the bargain, and Nanoha...would likely do the same, except in the exact opposite way since very little about it, except for the good things you've had to say about its general writing quality, is even kind of appealing to me. Between...

1. The mentioned fan service...
2. Too much action...
3. Over-dramatic action...
4. Lack of (or way too "big" i.e. not grounded, not relatable, not interesting, or not even funny) character stuff...
5. "Epic" story stuff... (note: this is what I love about Miyu and Sakura over e.g. Sailor Moon - grounded and low-key stories that are incredibly personal to our characters instead of generic END OF THE WORLD-type nonsense that I usually just want to get over with as soon as humanly possible...if you want an epic, world-ending plot, you're going to have to really build up to it and get me into it a la Steven Universe...which of course, had its own problems in the ultimate execution of it, but at least still did a good job of getting there over the course of many seasons)
6. The general aesthetic...and holy crap, kill these character designs with fire, ye gods it's so incredibly bad - I know even newer anime gets so much worse than this, but man...
7. idk probably other things

I just don't see it working out in any way for me. I like things to be done in a particular way, I want things to look a certain way that fit the tone and (non-visual) style of the show, certain styles of voice direction make my skin crawl, I want all the elements of a show to marry each other and form their own specific and cohesive style, and I just...you know, as always, I'm very particular. And I've always said that I experience what I hate much more strongly than what I like, so if even one element is misused or out of place in a major way, or something does the complete opposite of appealing to me (especially something fundamental that you would notice in a new show right off the bat that's going to be constantly there!), the entire house of cards collapses before it's even been built and there's virtually no hope for me to like it. Now, the chances of a show having such incredibly terrible music that I immediately hate the show in question are pretty low, especially because music tastes are malleable to a degree and different styles are appropriate for different shows...pointless and inappropriate nudity and/or fan service that involves the main characters that I'm supposed to like and take seriously, on the other hand? Yeah, that could do it, .

Edited November 23, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Gorth]

6 hours ago, majestic said:

Don't get me wrong, I often end up caring for animated characters more than live action characters, but enjoying fanservice for what it's supposed to be? Uh... no, I just don't work that way. No one should.

It's guilty of some fan service (if that's the right term). Mostly provided by her busty, red headed friend Hana. The latter also being painfully naive and innocent, to the point where there is a scene where the two friends are walking down a street and a large ghost is throwing little ghosts onto her boobs, just to watch them squirm and be roasted "alive" (probably doesn't apply to ghosts), then picking them up, eating them (Hana glows with sort of a golden "aura" i Miko's vision). She likes food and shopping for underwear

A way more interesting third character, which got introduced late into the show is Yulia, a diminutive character who goes in the class next to Miko's. She can see ghosts too, but only the smaller, harmless looking ones. She wants to become the greatest spiritualist ever and visits the local fortune teller lady "Godmother" regularly, trying to become her apprentice. She's now convinced that Miko is some all powerful spiritualist who has it in for her...

...and it looks like youtube also has previews and clips from episode 8 now. I guess I just have to get it. Ah well...

 

[HoonDing]

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[majestic]

18 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

For me, a 5/10 is "poor", 6/10 is "alright", 7/10 is "good", 8/10 is "great", 9/10 is "fantastic", and "10/10" would be perfect. And with my 75% subjective/25% objective rule, if you thought something was truly objectively trash but you love it anyways, 7 to maybe 7.5 is about the highest that I'd ever give it. From the sounds of it, you don't think it's particularly close to trash, but you also didn't quite love it, so maybe 7/10 is just about right. I give out 6-7/10s pretty easily - as long as I mostly enjoyed it and it wasn't actually badly made, it's not too difficult to get that 6 or 7. 8 and above is what's difficult, because an 8 is supposed to be "great", and what is "great" does not come around very often in my eyes.

That's the problem. There are elements in Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha that are trash(y), and that's mostly the fanservice elements and an "over"-reliance on action, although the latter is questionable in a sense when contrasted with more modern anime, tv shows or even films that almost exclusively rely on being absolute action spectacles to lull the viewers into not noticing how everything is readily falling apart at the seams.

By the way, for the purpose of this discussion I'm going to pretend that I skipped episode five of the first season, or that my copy was damaged and the horrible parts in the bath don't exist.

I kind of enjoyed the first two seasons, but even so there's the problem that they're nothing special. Putting them at a 6.5 out of 10 seems like a decent place. They're still decently written, they don't look terrible (very subjective, I know) even though they could really do with better animation, but if someone asked me why he should watch them, I'm coming up short, except for saying that I liked how the villains of the seasons weren't exactly villains, their goals were very low key and understandable, and any end of the world stuff was just ancillary.

StrikerS on the other hand strikes a balance between action, character elements and general entertainment value in a way that I haven't experienced since the early seasons of Agents of SHIELD. The problem I have with StrikerS is that I can't just say "there are a few elements that did not work, and the fanservice - when it happens - is distracting" and then go and give it an 8/10 when Miyu would sit at a 7/10 because there's no way StrikerS is a better, or more meaningful anime, plus it's an insult to actual 8/10 animes like NGE.

When I look at Miyu I see untapped potential, when I look at StrikerS what I see is a show that maxed out its potential. It cannot get any better, unless there's a radical shift in tone, writing style (not quality), genre or focus. It is as good as show like it can get. How do you rate the best hot dog you can get compared to haute cuisine with some deficiencies in its craftsmanship? It's a bit like @KP Cross Split Attack said, every now and then you just want a McDonald's burger, and StrikerS is pretty much that.

Time to stop rambling. Sorry.

18 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

It's a style and artistry thing. Miyu is a bit dark and definitely tragic, but it isn't really over-dramatic in your typical ANIME DRAMA fashion.

I'm agreeing with what you said about the part I haven't quoted, as you noticed, I'm still hesistant to try Samurai Boogaloo for that reason. I'll also try to cut this short because the last few days have taken a lot out of me, but today we successfully launched a large project. I feel empty in a way I don't experience all too often. At least the 14 hour work days will cease now, I think.

The fact that I still made time to watch StrikerS at such a pace should also count for something, I guess.

Anyway, back to Miyu or at least anime drama, I think Gromnir had the right of it in the movie thread. Whether something is over-dramatic, melodramatic or maudlin is a matter of subjective enjoyment beyond a certain amount of an objective measure, i.e. Violet Evergarden is very clearly written as an appeal to emotion in certain episodes, and yes, if the show for any reason falls flat for a viewer or doesn't work on the level it tries to, then it becomes a subjectively bad experience (as you experienced yourself).

Miyu works in spite of being way over that level. If I take a step back and look at it, the amount of episodes that do the tragic ending are legion, never mind the entire ending of the anime. I'm sure there are people out there who groan at that, and - rightfully, I would say - just dismiss it. *shrug*

I don't even know where I was going with this.

18 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

The style, the artistry, the intended tone, the appeal, the...everything is, uh, a little different, to say the least. As always, I'm a big believer in shows/movies being what they're selling themselves in at least tone, style, and intended audience, and Miyu literally immediately interested me based off of what it was selling itself as soon as I saw it and and it held up its end of the bargain, and Nanoha...would likely do the same, except in the exact opposite way since very little about it, except for the good things you've had to say about its general writing quality, is even kind of appealing to me. Between...

1. The mentioned fan service...
2. Too much action...
3. Over-dramatic action...
4. Lack of (or way too "big" i.e. not grounded, not relatable, not interesting, or not even funny) character stuff...
5. "Epic" story stuff... (note: this is what I love about Miyu and Sakura over e.g. Sailor Moon - grounded and low-key stories that are incredibly personal to our characters instead of generic END OF THE WORLD-type nonsense that I usually just want to get over with as soon as humanly possible...if you want an epic, world-ending plot, you're going to have to really build up to it and get me into it a la Steven Universe...which of course, had its own problems in the ultimate execution of it, but at least still did a good job of getting there over the course of many seasons)
6. The general aesthetic...and holy crap, kill these character designs with fire, ye gods it's so incredibly bad - I know even newer anime gets so much worse than this, but man...
7. idk probably other things

Which is why it didn't, just like Violet Evergarden or Dropkick on my Devil! (which nobody else picked up on, or at least didn't post about, *shrug*), come with a recommendation. Especially not for the first and second season. My exact words where there's a semi-chance you'll not hate the first three episodes. When I said that it would be interesting to see what you'll say about a handful of StrikerS episodes that was less about me thinking it has a chance of being well and truly liked. There are some moments that are really going in the right direction, but those just drown out in the parts of the show that I still liked, but you definitely would not (not only, but very much of the action).

No, that would be interesting on an intellectual level, also because imposter syndrome is a thing and I talk about this being well written - which in my opinion it really is, but I'd still want cross-checked by someone trustworthy. Yep. That's like... yeah. Ahem. Well. Don't mind me, I'll show myself out.

18 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Now, the chances of a show having such incredibly terrible music that I immediately hate the show in question are pretty low, especially because music tastes are malleable to a degree and different styles are appropriate for different shows...pointless and inappropriate nudity and/or fan service that involves the main characters that I'm supposed to like and take seriously, on the other hand? Yeah, that could do it, .

They're only nude in every other episode, really... erm... and in every opening sequence. Yeah. Who am I kidding. It probably only doesn't feel as bad in StrikerS as it is because the first season went way overboard and because it's at least not embarrassing all the time, like Love Live! or Magic User's Club, or that girl from the trailer Gorth linked.

**

Now that that's over, Saturday I was sitting at the office hard at work and decided that I'll try something new for fun, and downloaded a small language learning app that plays very well into most of my weaknesses. It creates a schedule to stick to, has smaller lections, and a variety of things to choose from. There are progress bars and achievements too. It also had a training course for Hiragana, which is what I toyed around with over the weekend in an attempt to take my mind off work (kind of worked).

Seems daunting at first what with it being 46 symbols (plus a whole lot of symbols formed with diacritics and sounds written in digraphs), but it's not that bad. I'm capable of slowly (very slowly) reading* Hiragana after a couple of hours (the idea of learning to read 2000 kanji still seems terrible though). I'm perfectly capable of writing them on my phone when switching to the Japanese keyboard, but that's because they're set up to follow a very simple pattern, and it's just transcribing syllables you hear into symbols you don't even have to be able to read because they can't be anywhere else on the keyboard. Took me a while to figure out how to write diacritics and how the rules for the diagraphs work (like how to get from shi to ja, which begins with the same symbol, needs a diacritic added and a second symbol to transform the i to an a) though.

I'm guessing weeb street cred is good enough, after all.

edit: Take the title from Gorth's anime: 見える子ちゃん - that's Mieruko-chan. Mi and ko are kanji, the other hiragana. The syllable after ko is a chi with the second being a small ya to indicate the change from chi to cha. 見|え|る|子|ちゃ|ん Mi e ru ko cha n.  

*Doesn't mean understanding, obviously. My Japanese vocabulary is... let's say, limited, at best.

Edited November 23, 2021 by majestic

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

32 minutes ago, majestic said:

How do you rate the best hot dog you can get compared to haute cuisine with some deficiencies in its craftsmanship? It's a bit like @KP Cross Split Attack said, every now and then you just want a McDonald's burger, and StrikerS is pretty much that.

So first thing, I would only eat McDonald's if the alternative was something vile like Burger King or Subway. If I'm going to eat a fast food burger, it's going to be Whataburger.

Secondly, there's been a trend of high profile chefs starting restaurants featuring simple street food like burgers, hot dogs, tacos, etc. Now some of this is a desire to break into a more casual dining market, which can be more lucrative than haute **** only affordable by rich ****ers, and some of it is trying to bourgeois-ify casual food to provide a novelty to rich ****ers. This is relevant because sometimes the former is just pretty damn good, like I love good barbecue or hot chicken and waffles to the point that I'd prefer it over most of the haute stuff some of the wealthier forum members eat, while the latter stuff like $100 burgers can go **** themselves.

Now what this has to do with anime....well I think what makes both food and media work for me is feeling. Like I enjoy a stylistic romps and heartfelt stuff like Watanabe's animes, deep and horrifying **** like Berserk (90s), silly light hearted stuff like Sailor Moon, deconstructed versions of silly light hearted stuff like Madoka, and....well whatever the **** JoJo is. Sometimes you can look at them in terms of quality, ie Watanabe animes seem to have a very solid production while Sailor Moon was a low budget cash grab that somehow worked (aside from a certain horse), but I don't put much into that. The bigger qualifier for me is how did it make me feel, because at the end of the day all the technique or production values in the world can't save something that just isn't good while something good can bring subpar or mediocre things together to create something great.

I don't know if this makes any sense at all, but I'd recommend anyone check out the live action movie Thunder Road (2018) to kind of see what I mean. It was made on a shoe string budget and imo easily beats out a ton of movies whose budget was gargantuan.

[Bartimaeus]

8 hours ago, majestic said:

Anyway, back to Miyu or at least anime drama, I think Gromnir had the right of it in the movie thread. Whether something is over-dramatic, melodramatic or maudlin is a matter of subjective enjoyment beyond a certain amount of an objective measure, i.e. Violet Evergarden is very clearly written as an appeal to emotion in certain episodes, and yes, if the show for any reason falls flat for a viewer or doesn't work on the level it tries to, then it becomes a subjectively bad experience (as you experienced yourself).

Miyu works in spite of being way over that level. If I take a step back and look at it, the amount of episodes that do the tragic ending are legion, never mind the entire ending of the anime. I'm sure there are people out there who groan at that, and - rightfully, I would say - just dismiss it. *shrug*

When I watch something like Violet Evergarden...or any of about ten other anime movies I gave anywhere between 2-5 minutes to before being like "oh, it's one of THOSE"...I usually stop watching because the show/movie is practically screaming at me how I should feel about it right off the bat, without even barely introducing me to the setting, plot, or characters. Slow and soft piano music, the most pathetic-looking characters, monologues that go on and on to try to explain their whole sorry existence, meandering and wistful scenes that aren't really about anything or don't go anywhere that are simply there to help "set the mood" as it were... For me, sadness, drama, or really any attempts at eliciting genuine feelings from the viewer are something that have to be earned, and that's usually done best when properly contrasting them. If you want me to feel sad for a character, it will enormously help if I see them in the proper element first, see what they're like when they're in a good place, how they normally act and the things they're interested in, perhaps I'll even genuinely like the character right off the bat and form an instant connection with them, etc. Framing matters, and I will appreciate their personal circumstances much more than if you just tell me to be sad for them. If the first scene of A New Hope was with Luke's aunt and uncle being murdered, if Steven Universe immediately started out with him trying to repair a completely broken family, if Xiaolang was fumbling about like a babbling baboon trying to explain his feelings for Sakura from the first or second episode, if Mima...well, you get the idea, .

Miyu, the show where she is the protagonist (and not the OVA where she is not), is not initially tragic hardly at all...for Miyu herself. It eventually starts going that way for both Miyu and her friends as well as Reiha, but it does not start out that way. The things that are happening to the other characters that flit in and out of the show in order to form each episode's plots? Sure, but they're not one of our protagonists - heck, they're not really even side characters, they're simply problems for our protagonist(s) to solve. We're not really supposed to form meaningful attachments to them, and that's fine, that's the anti-magical girl nature of the show at work, just the same as it is in Sailor Moon and introducing random victims of the week every episode (although Miyu does try a little harder to actually make characters out of most of them, as opposed to just literal random victims of happenstance as was typical to occur in Sailor Moon). Occasionally, someone in particular may strike a chord in us and we'll form an instant connection with them, but besides that, tragedy that happens to other characters that the viewer is not really supposed to care about to begin with because they're not our characters...well, yeah, obviously, that's a pretty different kind of tragedy, more conceptual in nature than personal, from a film telling me with every single ounce of its being that I need to be sad for a character I was just introduced to seconds ago, isn't it? Framing, as always, matters. Miyu made friends and did silly girl stuff with them in between performing her duties. Miyu was not personally affected by the job she had to do or how she was performing at her job...initially. That would eventually change, in small ways at first but much bigger ones later, but at first she was just doing the job she had to do to the best of her abilities and it seemed to work out more or less and be at least sufficient...and by the time that was no longer the case, well, for all the show's unrealized potential and flaws, I thought that was fine - one of the more interesting aspects of the show, even, because I had started to have my own doubts before then.

8 hours ago, majestic said:

When I look at Miyu I see untapped potential, when I look at StrikerS what I see is a show that maxed out its potential. It cannot get any better, unless there's a radical shift in tone, writing style (not quality), genre or focus. It is as good as show like it can get. How do you rate the best hot dog you can get compared to haute cuisine with some deficiencies in its craftsmanship? It's a bit like @KP Cross Split Attack said, every now and then you just want a McDonald's burger, and StrikerS is pretty much that.

That's perfectly fair, and I wouldn't have any issue with you rating StrikerS higher than Miyu to begin with anyways. Opinions are opinions - what will or won't appeal and work for each of us is...more difficult to prognosticate for some than others, but by no means ever a guarantee regardless of whom or what you're talking about. Even for the most predictable of people, you can "guarantee" that they will or won't like something...and you may be right in that specific instance, but you would do well to remember the times you thought similar things about other items where you were wrong, because there are sure to be some.

Some people love hot dogs, and say it's their favorite food in the world. I, of course, hate hot dogs...but I also think the majority of "haute cuisine" is a hilarious joke much more contemptible than any normal mediocre food. Then again, I have a fairly cold and utilitarian outlook on food in general, because I would instantly give up ever eating if I ever could, even if it meant I never could eat again, so probably don't ask me about food, .

8 hours ago, majestic said:

Dropkick on my Devil!

I took one look at it when you had been talking about it and was basically "I hate silly stupid fun". That was the end of that consideration, .

8 hours ago, majestic said:

When I said that it would be interesting to see what you'll say about a handful of StrikerS episodes that was less about me thinking it has a chance of being well and truly liked.

I almost added on to my previous post that I'd be willing to watch a few, but then I remembered that I got like halfway through an episode of both Clannad and Steins;Gate before I wanted to rip my hair out in annoyance, frustration, and just general dissatisfaction with everything, and suddenly that seemed like a pretty tall order...

Glad things will hopefully get a little back to normal for you in regards to work schedule and personal time.

8 hours ago, majestic said:

Seems daunting at first what with it being 46 symbols (plus a whole lot of symbols formed with diacritics and sounds written in digraphs), but it's not that bad. I'm capable of slowly (very slowly) reading* Hiragana after a couple of hours (the idea of learning to read 2000 kanji still seems terrible though). I'm perfectly capable of writing them on my phone when switching to the Japanese keyboard, but that's because they're set up to follow a very simple pattern, and it's just transcribing syllables you hear into symbols you don't even have to be able to read because they can't be anywhere else on the keyboard. Took me a while to figure out how to write diacritics and how the rules for the diagraphs work (like how to get from shi to ja, which begins with the same symbol, needs a diacritic added and a second symbol to transform the i to an a) though.

Even this still sounds horrifically complicated to just learning another Latin language. I took some French way back and remember literally almost nothing of it now (probably because I wasn't really trying to learn it at the time, same story as is usual for me with most "forced" education, unfortunately - I tend to learn things for just long enough for them to serve their purpose and then they vacate the premises that is my brain immediately after, and I never had that good of a grasp of it to begin with anyways), and that seems just terrible in comparison. I already only just barely understand English as it is...

7 hours ago, KP Cross Split Attack said:

Thunder Road

A few of my favorite movies were made with less than a million dollars for the entire budget...but look and provide an experience better than your average 200 million dollar blockbuster...for me. Heck, I even kind of enjoyed a weird French movie called Jeanne Dielman which was a three and a half hour long film that was simply the most utterly boring footage of a woman doing her daily housework. Stylishly filmed, but utterly drab in what occurred. Who in their right mind would even find that enjoyable? I guess this guy, to an extent at least. I'll give Thunder Road a shot sometime, it sounds like it could be interesting.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Sarex]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/23/t-magazine/hayao-miyazaki-studio-ghibli.html

Coming out of retirement, again...

[Sarex]

Inside the mind of Anno. Step in if you dare.

He also has reviews for each of the movies for those interested.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Sarex

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

JoJo Stardust Crusaders 18: Arabia Fats' The Sun.

Interesting stando, but the real standout moment was when the gang broke out in laughter. Because no one in this show laughs normally.

 

1 hour ago, Sarex said:

Inside the mind of Anno. Step in if you dare.

He also has reviews for each of the movies for those interested.

Pretty interesting. I have to check out that thing in the middle Anno helped get going, because that animation looked great. But if anyone want a TL;DW

Watch the video.

[Sarex]

7 minutes ago, KP Cross Split Attack said:

I have to check out that thing in the middle Anno helped get going, because that animation looked great.

I know about this one from way back.

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

52 minutes ago, Sarex said:

I know about this one from way back.

 

Pretty good but.....