Question about the priest withdraw spell

[Ouroboros226]

I was wondering... if you play berserker shaman for self-confuse. Can you can use withdraw offensively on enemies to lock them out in the start of a fight to gain the advantage?  

[Not So Clever Hound]

1 hour ago, Ouroboros226 said:

I was wondering... if you play berserker shaman for self-confuse. Can you can use withdraw offensively on enemies to lock them out in the start of a fight to gain the advantage?  

It works, and it can be interesting in certain very specific situations.  However, a confused Priest healing enemies is the worst, so once you've used this trick you might want to switch to Modwyr or use an INT inspiration to get rid of Confused...

Edited August 25, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Elric Galad]

It works also with Beetle Shell I suppose...

[Boeroer]

WhooooAAAAa! I used Withdraw in so many different situations (also unintended ones) and did the same with Berserker Confusion - why the F did I never think of this and combine both? It doesn't even require a hit roll when cast on enemies then...

Really nice thought, thanks!

[Not So Clever Hound]

8 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

It doesn't even require a hit roll when cast on enemies then..

Yes this makes it so much better than Stasis Shell especially since this kind of ability used offensively has the best impact at the beginning of the fight. So the fact that Withdraw heals is a non issue. When I think that Stasis Shell is one of just 3 PL7 abilities, LOL. Especially since another one is Screaming Souls, which we just discussed doesn't work as it should. And the last one is Ancestor's Memory! I guess the Devs were very clear on the one PL7 Cipher power they'd want players to pick .

[Elric Galad]

15 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

Yes this makes it so much better than Stasis Shell especially since this kind of ability used offensively has the best impact at the beginning of the fight. So the fact that Withdraw heals is a non issue. When I think that Stasis Shell is one of just 3 PL7 abilities, LOL. Especially since another one is Screaming Souls, which we just discussed doesn't work as it should. And the last one is Ancestor's Memory! I guess the Devs were very clear on the one PL7 Cipher power they'd want players to pick .

Stasis shell (and temporal cocoon) are good on their own. Especially because there are so many hard foes immune to INT and RES hard CC afflictions, and MIG/DEX hard CC don't have comparable durations. Withdraw + Self confused is kind of half- Broken indeed (without any clean way to "fix" it), but at least require a precise set up. Still removing 2+ target from fight right at the beginning of a fight, without any roll involved is... Well... Combo go brrrr

[Not So Clever Hound]

2 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Still removing 2+ target from fight right at the beginning of a fight, without any roll involved is... Well... Combo go brrrr

Haha true, especially if the emphasis is on the + in 2+. A Berserker/xx under Frenzy with high Arcana can be very fast. Even if Withdraw scrolls have a longer base casting time than the spell itself (1.6s vs. 0.5s) it can still be chain cast to quickly remove 3 or 4 annoying enemies for a very long duration in a big fight. And those scrolls are dirt cheap. It can also be used reactively because of the short cast time (like invisibility, but more offensively). "Oh look, Brian is trying to cast Arcane Dampener on my party! Let's Withdraw him for a bit."

Actually now that I'm thinking about it... couldn't it be an amazing way to defeat Hauani o Whe??????? When it first splits, you soften the 2 Gigantic Oozes, then withdraw one before they start merging. Destroy totally the one that remains and its offspring. Then when the other comes back, deal with it knowing that it can't go back to HoW form!

EDIT: the cheese lover in me is starting to envision a Berserker/Bloodmage that uses Minor Grimoire Imprint to steal an infinite-use Withdraw spell from a random Priest.

EDIT2: I'm testing on Hauani right now but yes, at least the first form can be withdrawn. Also, this could work with a Tactician under Tactician Dilemma (gets Shaken and Confused). If you're in a party, you can also have a rogue hit you with Sap to get Confused.

EDIT3: Confirmed, this is a new way of taking out Hauani o Whe. You can withdraw one Gigantic Black Ooze while you focus down the other and its offspring, preventing the merge without needing to devote attention to interrupts, paralyze etc.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Ouroboros226]

Haha I'm glad you guys got hyped over this  

I was wondering @Not So Clever Hound, is the grimoire spell steal of wizard permanent until replaced? I thought it only lasted for the current encounter? If you gain the stolen ability to use once per fight for as long as you want - that really makes this spell interesting! 

[Not So Clever Hound]

10 minutes ago, Ouroboros226 said:

I was wondering @Not So Clever Hound, is the grimoire spell steal of wizard permanent until replaced? I thought it only lasted for the current encounter? If you gain the stolen ability to use once per fight for as long as you want - that really makes this spell interesting!

Ah my friend, you're in for a treat . But it's a bit of a game abuse. Still you can use the Imprint spells to copy most spells in the game for infinite uses, from any traditional spellcaster (Wizard, Priest, Druid). Please see this thread for details:

 

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Boeroer]

2 hours ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

If you're in a party, you can also have a rogue hit you with Sap to get Confused.

If you are in a party, you can use a Berserker/Wizard to cast Confusion on everybody and build around a completely bewildered party.

And then you can cast Pain Link on enemies (who get attacked by enemies you charmed - or on charmed enemies who get attacked by other enemies), attach Antipathetic Field to party members, Ectopsychic Echo to enemies, Amplified Wave on enemies, Withdraw and Dimensional Shift on enemies, Grimoire Imprints on party members, Combusting Wounds and Brand Enemy on the guy with Rekvu's Scorched Cloak and so on...

Edit: what happens if a confused Priest casts Hand of Weal and Woe on a guy who has Rekvu's Scorched Cloak? Does that guy get the healing and 20% of fire dmg as healing, too?  Same with Divine Immolation...

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Boeroer

[Not So Clever Hound]

13 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

If you are in a party, you can use a Berserker/Wizard to cast Confusion on everybody and build around a completely bewildered party.

And then you can cast Pain Link on enemies (who get attacked by enemies you charmed - or on charmed enemies who get attacked by other enemies), atach Antipathetic Field to party members, Ectopsychic Echo to enemies, Amplified Wave on enemies, Withdraw and Dimensional Shift on enemies, Grimoire Imprints on party members, Combusting Wounds and Brand Enemy on the guy with Rekvu's Scorched Cloak and so on...

....And do even more unspeakable things to all those poor skeleton summons while no one notices as the world turns upside down. You're a sick man @Boeroer!

If all your party is Confused, maybe you can cast Ancient Memory on a Dominated enemy caster (already under FF curse so Dominate lasts longer), then cast SoT on them just for the right duration, then spam their own most powerful spells against their party. Then Dismiss Withdraw them right at the end. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Boeroer]

Rofl I like where this is going!

I also like that an enemy will be dominated by a totally demented character.  

Edited August 25, 2021 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

Antipathetic Field + Party Members + Death of thousands cuts.

Ok let's kill Dorudugan with this.

[Ouroboros226]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

If you are in a party, you can use a Berserker/Wizard to cast Confusion on everybody and build around a completely bewildered party.

And then you can cast Pain Link on enemies (who get attacked by enemies you charmed - or on charmed enemies who get attacked by other enemies), atach Antipathetic Field to party members, Ectopsychic Echo to enemies, Amplified Wave on enemies, Withdraw and Dimensional Shift on enemies, Grimoire Imprints on party members, Combusting Wounds and Brand Enemy on the guy with Rekvu's Scorched Cloak and so on...

 

 

You lost me... now I'm confused!    I'm too new to POE2 to understand all that hehe

[Not So Clever Hound]

11 minutes ago, Ouroboros226 said:

You lost me... now I'm confused!    I'm too new to POE2 to understand all that hehe

If you're Confused, cast an Intellect Inspiration, or better, go have a whisky in real life, and then come back. I promise it will all make sense.

Seriously, it is about the fact that being Confused can make you cast beneficial stuff on enemies etc. (i.e. it lifts certain targeting restrictions) which opens up a lot of tactical shenanigans for those interested.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Elric Galad]

Anyway, just wanted to confirm it is a bit pointless to address my modding. Overall it's fun, only Withdraw (+Beetle Shell ?) is a bit broken and it comes with some drawbacks : bad INT, usual Zerks' penalty, confusion on a priest (quite annoying) and ressource renewal a bit tedious since Brilliant interract poorly with Confusion. You might prefer your usual Devil of Caroc Breastplate.

Also if you don't like it, don't use it on foes. It's different from some OP combos that could be interesting if they weren't broken (so you basically stop using Blunderbuss Modal with Streetfighter since it would lead to a pseudo-exploit). Of course, Strand of Favor was also a case of "if you don't like it ignore it", but Strand of Favor breaks the game in much more epic proportion. 

[Not So Clever Hound]

35 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

Anyway, just wanted to confirm it is a bit pointless to address my modding

Indeed, IMO. But I'm not yet playing the game with your mod so maybe my opinion is irrelevant. Anyway, I think it's a trick that doesn't totally break the game, that you can only abuse with a lot of prep/focus on it, and which most significant advantage is to help give alternative solutions against HoW (which is fair... come one this merging blob routine is in my nightmares now ). And it has the drawbacks you listed. Its imbalance is balanced I think .

35 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

Strand of Favor breaks the game in much more epic proportion. 

I have no idea what you're talking about. With SoF, my little Shadow Camembert Assassin only got to 110,000% Deltro Lash and 100,000,000,000s durations of Vanishing Strike. It still felt a bit unsafe. I feel like you're trying to make me feel unsafe. I feel triggered. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[thelee]

6 hours ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

EDIT3: Confirmed, this is a new way of taking out Hauani o Whe. You can withdraw one Gigantic Black Ooze while you focus down the other and its offspring, preventing the merge without needing to devote attention to interrupts, paralyze etc.

i love this new tech.

 

does belranga need to be present for little spiderlings to keep spawning? i'm wondering if this can also be used to safely sequester belranga when her defenses are high while working down the spiders. this would take so long you'd need some resource regen somehow, but just spitballing.

[Boeroer]

11 hours ago, thelee said:

i love this new tech.

 

does belranga need to be present for little spiderlings to keep spawning? i'm wondering if this can also be used to safely sequester belranga when her defenses are high while working down the spiders. this would take so long you'd need some resource regen somehow, but just spitballing.

Well... if you are a SC Berserker and only use Withdraw scrolls you can get back Rage via Blood Surge... should be good with all them little spiders? Use Abraham and Twin Eels to stay alive during the squatting of the brood?

Edited August 26, 2021 by Boeroer

[Not So Clever Hound]

12 hours ago, thelee said:

does belranga need to be present for little spiderlings to keep spawning? i'm wondering if this can also be used to safely sequester belranga when her defenses are high while working down the spiders. this would take so long you'd need some resource regen somehow, but just spitballing.

I just did some testing:

• Spiders continue to spawn when she is withdrawn.
• The stacks of Wrath of the Empress also happen while she is withdrawn (so she is increasingly pissed-off, she loses defenses and gain ACC for each spiderling killed also when she is withdrawn).

 

That can open up some possibilities, but I don't think it can make Belranga fundamentally easier for builds that cannot already own her without Withdraw. (I realize that my sentence isn't clear....). So: any Rogue, Blood Mage, Paladin or a Brilliant Priest can completely own Belranga, with or without Withdraw it won't change much. Other classes that already struggle, will also struggle with it. And of course still anyone can do it with a couple reloads and True Lover's Kiss + Leaping Boots or Rakhan Field Boots.

EDIT: however, I think this Withdraw trick can be marginally more useful in the Auranic fight, if you want to take a more frontal approach. Auranic and her Sigils should be withdrawable too! EDIT2: I love those little discoveries  so Auranic can be withdrawn which is quite nice, but of course the Obelisks reflect direct-targeting spells so you end up withdrawing yourself if you use Withdraw on an active Obelisk.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound