Anime - Do you Understannnnnnndu?

[majestic]

Vampire Princess Miyu, episode 22...

Spoiler

Huh, I thought Miyu would be much, much older than she actually is. I guess Western shinma enjoy travelling on outdated ships then. Really strange choice to have a Reiha "metaphor" closed off village reality backstory episode followed by her actual backstory, together with Miyu's.

Wasn't Miyu's family the other way around in the 80ies OVA? Her father was human, and her mother the Vampire/Shinma that made her father immortal at the cost of all his ambition/drive/joy in life?

edit:

Reiha talked to Miyu's friends. I'm guessing that'll be really problematic soon. Oh dear.

edit 2:

Heh, they actually noticed that Miyu never wears anything other than her school uniform. Ah, girls, run before this takes a turn for the worse. Just run.

edit 3:

Spoiler

Hisae, do you really think it's a good idea to tell Yukari that you've just heard that your other friend's brother is a demon and her friend from school a vampire? Just get out, this isn't going to end well for you. Be a little genre savy here, for my sake? Please?

edit 4:

Spoiler

Yay, the next episode begins with Hisae's funeral. Not entirely unexpected... still, would have been nice to be wrong, you know...

edit 5:

Spoiler

Heh, so it's not just Chisato's brother that is shinma. Poor Yukari, I think that's it for you then.

I think this was part of what I guessed would happen in an earlier post. Either Chisato will die or suffer a fate worse than death, or she'll be part of Miyu's downfall*. So let's see if Miyu actually survives it.

edit 6:

Yeah, found it. Actually, I called that one, and then said I hope it won't go there because it would be stupid.

Spoiler

 

On 8/14/2021 at 11:54 AM, majestic said:

One thing that would potentially bother me is if Chisato turns out to be Reiha (or some other spirit/evil being thing) in disguise. That would be something The Outer Limits would pull off, and it would work there because anthology show and ever changing casts. Here that would be cheap, so I'm hoping it won't go there (plus it would make Miyu look supremely stupid for not figuring it out).

Chisato is a specially created Miyu killer bird shinma. Well, at least that explains why she looked like a bug eyed alien every now and then.

The explanation given at least doesn't make Miyu look completely stupid. Just a little bit. Geez.

@Bartimaeus hmm. Apparently you never know when having watched The Outer Limits helps with the potential trauma of a massive plot twist that is about as well telegraphed as Erica's emotions.

Also, god damn, poor Miyu.

*Not really sure, will check later, that was part of one 2:30 am post or some such (footnote for edit 5 spoiler).

edits for final episode:
 

Spoiler

Final episode begins with Larva and Bird-Whathisface Shinma guy fighting and destroying entire mountaintops in the process. This turns strangely anime right at the end here, huh? Where is the understatement gone? I almost started laughing after Kill la Kill liberally did the same to mock such things. Ah well. I guess fair is fair.

edit:
 

Spoiler

Chisato pulls a Himemiya and tells Miyu that she, like, really wanted her brother.

Okay they're both creepy bird demons, so I guess that's fair, but... what?

final edit, sort of:
 

Spoiler

Well, that's that. Miyu wins purely by being intertwined with Larva. Or a miscalculation on the bird's part that merely having her blood removed will kill her. Well, I guess Chisato is happy forever after now. That's... a win, I guess.

Larva being able to use Miyu's flame attack feels a little like a last second cop-out, but it's not unreasonable.

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by majestic

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I did it, I finished Evangelion 3.0+1.01 Thrice Upon a Time. That sure was something, and I'll probably end up posting more after I've had some time to think. But coming right out of it, I enjoyed it and think it works as an ending.

[Bartimaeus]

Miyu stuff:

Spoiler

6 hours ago, majestic said:

I thought Miyu would be much, much older than she actually is

I wasn't able to concretely pin her age down - did I miss something that did? Best I could figure was that she became a vampire when she was around 13-15, and that seemed to happen in maybe the 50s or 60s? As for the OVA vs. TV show backstory differences, yeah, I thought that was weird too. The first chapter I read of the manga seemed to suggest the OVA's story was the correct one, that her mother was the (vampire) Guardian prior to Miyu*, not really sure they went a different direction for the TV show.

6 hours ago, majestic said:

Heh, so it's not just Chisato's brother that is shinma. Poor Yukari, I think that's it for you then.

I think this was part of what I guessed would happen in an earlier post. Either Chisato will die or suffer a fate worse than death, or she'll be part of Miyu's downfall*. So let's see if Miyu actually survives it.

Okay, first of all...is there any reason THE BIRDS are the the enemy of the Guardians? Right about the time I saw Chisato's parents turn into chickens, I wondered that. Two, did I understand correctly that any human can be turned into a shinma? That is how I understood the one bird dude to be saying, which would obviously explain why Guardians are supposed to keep humans and shinma completely separate from one another, even though Miyu obviously didn't know that. Do/did other/previous Guardians know that, but it was just never explained to Miyu? I don't think Miyu really ever got a job description or a user manual when she became a Guardian, so it makes sense that she wouldn't understand why these things are supposed to be the way they are. It was also my understanding that Chisato and her brother most likely weren't originally shinma (and indeed, at least at first, she seemed to be struggling with the memories and feelings of her old life and not wanting to hurt her friends or Miyu and becoming a crazy shinma). Three, yes, you guessed it, but at least the way it happened was weird and not totally predictable, . Four...the total lack of resolution for Reiha sure didn't feel good, especially because while I initially disliked Reiha, I actually grew to like her more and more as the series went on, .

6 hours ago, majestic said:

Larva being able to use Miyu's flame attack feels a little like a last second cop-out, but it's not unreasonable.

I didn't really understand why Larva wasn't able to hurt the bird guy to begin with, so I was pretty okay with that whole battle ending the way it did.

Evangelion: Guess I'll try the first one, 1.0, and get back to you guys on whether I can take a second one, .

[majestic]

Miyu talk:

Spoiler

3 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I wasn't able to concretely pin her age down - did I miss something that did? Best I could figure was that she became a vampire when she was around 13-15, and that seemed to happen in maybe the 50s or 60s? As for the OVA vs. TV show backstory differences, yeah, I thought that was weird too. The first chapter I read of the manga seemed to suggest the OVA's story was the correct one, that her mother was the (vampire) Guardian prior to Miyu*, not really sure they went a different direction for the TV show.

TV show Miyu seems to be from the early 20th century, while OVA Miyu was more like from mid 20th century. The entire backstory with Larva however, in the TV anime, made it look like Miyu is centuries old, I mean, he's talking about Japan as this poor, far away nation that he happened to chance upon, barely worth conquering, and Garine comes on a boat that looks like it would not have been out of place in the 18th century, possibly earlier.

3 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Okay, first of all...is there any reason THE BIRDS are the the enemy of the Guardians? Right about the time I saw Chisato's parents turn into chickens, I wondered that.

Not that I would have noticed. The birds are by all means just a, uhm, bird-like "tribe" of Shinma, and for some reason the sworn enemies of the guardians. Technically all stray Shinma are, but unlike the others who act on what they want or need, they hide and attack the guardian specifically, apparently.

They seem to be loosely based on Tengu, avian yokai (Reiha is a yokai too - Japanese animistic spirits from Shinto tradition that aren't necessarily evil, and Japanese vampires are oni - which is a type of yokai).

3 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Two, did I understand correctly that any human can be turned into a shinma? That is how I understood the one bird dude to be saying, which would obviously explain why Guardians are supposed to keep humans and shinma completely separate from one another, even though Miyu obviously didn't know that.

The implication here was, I think, that the "Dark", the dimension, hell, plane of existence or whatever it is supposed to be, exists in all humans. That sort of harkens back to the OVA intro where the Shinma were sealed in darkness because humans were afraid of them. It's not an uncommon concept that the spiritual world is driven back or sealed by human progress, but how much that is supposed to be the implication here beats me.

Humans can somehow be turned into Shinma, that was part of the OVA too, with the possessed armor. Either that or humans can be used by Shinma as a conduit to manifest themselves in the real world, works either way you want it to, I think.

Have you ever played Terranigma, by the way? That never came out in the US as far as I know, but is fantastic as far as these late SNES action RPGs go, and it certainly beats more well known games like Secret of Mana in terms of storytelling and atmosphere (if not entirely perhaps in gameplay).

Or it means that the shinma were "sealed" in humanity by ongoing interbreeding. Based on Reiha, the protectors and Miyu, human characeristics seem to be pretty dominant, or a combination of the above. Either way I don't think there was a definitive answer given in the TV show. Perhaps there is one in the manga, in one of the volumes that came out after the anime.

3 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Do/did other/previous Guardians know that, but it was just never explained to Miyu? I don't think Miyu really ever got a job description or a user manual when she became a Guardian, so it makes sense that she wouldn't understand why these things are supposed to be the way they are.

It sure looks that way. Miyu's father was killed by THE BIRDS before he could pass on much knowledge, and everone involved in making sure Miyu awakens died without being able to tell her much about it. Should probably have educated their little girl a bit earlier.

3 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

It was also my understanding that Chisato and her brother most likely weren't originally shinma (and indeed, at least at first, she seemed to be struggling with the memories and feelings of her old life and not wanting to hurt her friends or Miyu and becoming a crazy shinma).

They seem to have had parents that were regular shinma, and were only born as humans. However, the whole "egg" metaphor seems to have implied that Chisato was human until her shinma personality emerged, and combined they did indeed struggle for a while before doing what they were supposed to. Chisato only kills Hisae after being told to, not because she really wanted. 

Chisato sure seemed fond of Miyu even as she attempted to fulfill her own destiny. She never transformed into a demonic creature either, unlike ber brother.

If she was fully human though, uhm, the charms would not have been necessary. Or would they have?

3 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Three, yes, you guessed it, but at least the way it happened was weird and not totally predictable, .

True. I also never expected giant anthropomorphized chickens to be Chisato's parents, or random John Lennon with sunglasses street vendor to be demonic. Still, yeah, not bad a guess, huh?

Although I still think it would have been better to make Miyu decide between doing her job and saving Chisato, and have one of the three perhaps die in the process, making the other two aware of who and what she is, and causing a rift. That would have been enough, really. There was enough potential for drama in the setup, without twisting the knife some more.

3 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Four...the total lack of resolution for Reiha sure didn't feel good, especially because while I initially disliked Reiha, I actually grew to like her more and more as the series went on, .

Not entirely certain what Reiha meant by going to look for herself. She apparently survived being decapitated. Did she meant the part she put into her creepy doll that is now gone, or do you think that has something to do with Miyu's personal quasi-plane where she also seems to keep Chisato's spirit? Actually, does Miyu keep all her victims' spirits there, there are some other spirit "balls" all over the place. Is that her happy place she sends the minds of the people to when she drinks their blood?

If that's the case, then we have another point for humans being potentially linked to whatever Darkness the shinma reside in. Assuming her plane there isn't the darkness.

Right, there's also the one thing Bird-Guy said about the bird wings covering the Earth, making everything dark again. That's another point for the idea that human progress or intermingling sealed the shinma away originally.

Or that the guardians are perhaps there to protect both humans and shinma, which is why Miyu is both humand and shinma, and that would make Bird Guy a sort of Lord Voldemort .

edit:

I originally thought, while watching the ending, that Miyu and Larva would leave for the Darkness themselves at the end of the show, and transition the role of the guardian to Reiha, who at the end there at least seems to have found some compassion.

Didn't really happen. Still might, though.

3 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

I didn't really understand why Larva wasn't able to hurt the bird guy to begin with, so I was pretty okay with that whole battle ending the way it did.

That made not much sense either. Bird guy said a lot of things at the end there, but maybe he just had really high resistance against piercing damage, rendering Larva's default attack useless after he loses his scythe.

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by majestic

[Bartimaeus]

1 hour ago, majestic said:

Have you ever played Terranigma, by the way? That never came out in the US as far as I know, but is fantastic as far as these late SNES action RPGs go, and it certainly beats more well known games like Secret of Mana in terms of storytelling and atmosphere (if not entirely perhaps in gameplay).

Yes, I played and beat it years ago. Gameplay was solid, I liked the world and atmosphere stuff...but the writing was very often clumsy at best. May be partly the translation's fault, though, .

Miyu:

Spoiler

2 hours ago, majestic said:

Or it means that the shinma were "sealed" in humanity by ongoing interbreeding. Based on Reiha, the protectors and Miyu, human characeristics seem to be pretty dominant, or a combination of the above. Either way I don't think there was a definitive answer given in the TV show. Perhaps there is one in the manga, in one of the volumes that came out after the anime.

Prooobably not gonna ever figure that one out, then, unless someone has written about it online...

2 hours ago, majestic said:

It sure looks that way. Miyu's father was killed by THE BIRDS before he could pass on much knowledge, and everone involved in making sure Miyu awakens died without being able to tell her much about it. Should probably have educated their little girl a bit earlier.

This is why you should always keep your ancient texts handy... Kind of important in the event of literally everybody but you in your tribe dying. I prefer the OVA backstory anyways, but that doesn't really help matters in this specific regard any. Ironically... MAJOR MANGA SPOILERS, DO NOT READ IF YOU EVER THINK YOU'LL READ THE MANGA, IT'S KIND OF A BIG DEAL. ...Not that you really can, best that I can tell, since it does not appear you can find it in fan-subs from what I can tell...so basically you've only got a partial translation from those hack Ironcat guys, and only for New Vampire Princess Miyu, not the original Miyu manga.

Spoiler

...Miyu ends up pulling the same thing on the next Guardian, as Miyu drains a pregnant woman whose child, Yui, becomes her vampiric successor after (in a clear departure from the show) Larva is forcefully separated from her and cleansed of her blood by his Western Shinma brethren and he slays her when she finds herself unable to fight him. Fittingly, Yui apparently ends up becoming an even weaker and crappier Guardian than Miyu was...though I guess she is able to devise some kind of ritual to resurrect Miyu through the blood Miyu bestowed upon her some time later, allowing the two of them to team up. Larva is eventually brought back into the fold as well. Typical anime stuff, really.

Sure would like to read wherever this (Yui + Miyu) came from, but I can't!

 

2 hours ago, majestic said:

Although I still think it would have been better to make Miyu decide between doing her job and saving Chisato, and have one of the three perhaps die in the process, making the other two aware of who and what she is, and causing a rift. That would have been enough, really. There was enough potential for drama in the setup, without twisting the knife some more.

Agreed. But writers seem to often have a desire to do something NEW or WEIRD when in fact, simply greatly-written character stuff almost always trumps having your expectations subverted, .

2 hours ago, majestic said:

I originally thought, while watching the ending, that Miyu and Larva would leave for the Darkness themselves at the end of the show, and transition the role of the guardian to Reiha, who at the end there at least seems to have found some compassion.

Ooh, that would've been solid, too. Funnily, I started out hating Reiha, but as the series went on, it felt like I understood and sympathized with her point of view more and more, and she was especially proven right by the end of the series.

2 hours ago, majestic said:

Not entirely certain what Reiha meant by going to look for herself. She apparently survived being decapitated. Did she meant the part she put into her creepy doll that is now gone, or do you think that has something to do with Miyu's personal quasi-plane where she also seems to keep Chisato's spirit? Actually, does Miyu keep all her victims' spirits there, there are some other spirit "balls" all over the place. Is that her happy place she sends the minds of the people to when she drinks their blood?

If that's the case, then we have another point for humans being potentially linked to whatever Darkness the shinma reside in. Assuming her plane there isn't the darkness.

I believe so, especially because Miyu says during the credits of the final episode, IIRC, that Chisato can make new friends while she's sitting in the sub-plane or whatever while looking at the other orbs.

2 hours ago, majestic said:

Chisato sure seemed fond of Miyu even as she attempted to fulfill her own destiny. She never transformed into a demonic creature either, unlike ber brother.

Oh man, that reminds me, all throughout the series, I was mildly chuckling at the show always doing the name-drop text for each Shinma as they were revealed, and was like "why would they even bother, these guys' names do not matter". It was all made worth it when it finally came to Chisato and she had her own name-drop, and it was simply and perfectly "CHISATO".

 

[Amentep]

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