Rogue Gouging Strike...

[Jaheiras Witness]

...does raw damage until combat ends.

How possible is it to abuse this? Can you use it on a very powerful opponent, run away somewhere safe, and let them (slowly) die? Or will combat end if they can't see you any longer (assuming no Berath Challenge)?

Does it work on megabosses? Any other notable opponents?

[dgray62]

Yes, it's very possible to abuse this. You can land it on a boss or megaboss, turn invisible, and wait awhile until they die. Combat won't end due to the damage over time effect. You might say its the easy but very time consuming way to defeat powerful foes.

[Boeroer]

Indeed. I once played a solo Assassin/Bleak Walker with triple "endless" DoTs just because of those mechanics:

Love's True Kiss (from the dagger Lover's Embrace) + Gouging Strike + Brand Enemy. You use Gouging Strike with +42 ACC* from stealth which will apply both Love's True Kiss' and Gouging Strike's DoT and then immediately (bc. of 85% recovery bonus of stealth) follow with Brand Enemy**. It has a 0.5 sec casting time and no recovery which means you can immediately follow with Smoke Veil*** and then retreat far enough to be out of sight. There you can wait until the enemy dies. The combat will not end because of the ticks. However, you need the space to retreat. There' some encounters where this is not doable, most notably boarding fights and the Water Dragon encounter. 

Megabosses can be killed with this, too. It just takes an absurd amount of time because they have enormous pools of HP. The triple DoT makes it faster - but against Dorudugan you mustn't use Brand Enemy because fire damage will heal instead of harm him. 

* +12 from one handed, +25 from Assassinate, +5 from Dagger. Weapon enchantments and other stuff like PER etc. come on top of course. 

** Brand Enemy is cheap (1 Zeal) and is an auto hit. Because it's easy to not miss with the first attack from stealth this auto hit is perfect to almost guarantee the triple DoT appliance in a very short amount of time.

*** Smoke Veil doesn't break on DoT ticks. Shadowing Beyond does. So you need to use Smoke Veil.  

[Not So Clever Hound]

2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

but against Dorudugan you mustn't use Brand Enemy because fire damage will heal instead of harm him.

And against Doru, you still need to wear the Upright Captain's Belt with this strategy because even if you've retreated to the furthest corner of the screen, the periodic pull attack will still get you - that is, unless you're immune.

I've done a Mindstalker playthrough where I defeated all Megabosses with Gouging Strike one way or another. The one megaboss that is a bit more intricate is Hauani o Whe (I used Disintegrate + Marux Amanth when it was at Near Death from Gouging Strike). Even against Auranic I used an Empower point to have enough Guile to Gouging Strike her and each Sigil.  

It also worked on Neriscyrlas, on the Fire Dragon, on the Porokoa, I even destroyed the Oracle of Wael with it among other things... the Guardians, Gorecci Street, the Dig Site... it trivializes many things. It's always a nice effect to apply and then you supplement as needed with other offense if you are in a small enclosed area and can't just go hide somewhere. You can also let something die form Gouging Strike while you stay in the safety of Withdraw scrolls but you'll need a lot of scrolls .

Edited April 30, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[The Berathian]

I like to make Aloth a rogue / wizard and then have him toss AoE blights with gouging strike. It's mean. And it works incredibly well. 

[Boeroer]

Why with Blights? Their AoE is rel. small compared to a rod's Blast iirc. And with Watershaper's Focus you'd even get a bounce (AoE, too) which makes it easy to apply stuff like Gouging Strike to even more enemies (and/or have two chances of hitting with it).

[The Berathian]

4 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Why with Blights? Their AoE is rel. small compared to a rod's Blast iirc. And with Watershaper's Focus you'd even get a bounce (AoE, too) which makes it easy to apply stuff like Gouging Strike to even more enemies (and/or have two chances of hitting with it).

"Ekera. Aloth has taken my rod, and he is holding it with both hands, I say." 

 

[Griffonheart]

Hm, I recall people suggested using the eternal DoT from Gauging Strike to get Vatnir as early as lvl5.

[Boeroer]

That was me (among others I guess).

You could do it even sooner with Lover's Embrace and Bounding Boots from Benweth's study (if you can get those very early I mean).

If you have trouble even grazing the Messenger you could try the Gauntlets of Greater Reliability (Berath Blessings vendor in Port Maje) and reload a few times until you get a conversion from miss to graze. Maybe even add some miss-to-graze consumables?
 

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Boeroer

[Jaheiras Witness]

Thanks for the insight. So I wonder, when I read threads on here about people doing the hardest challenges, there's a lot of talk around abusing Brilliant / extend durations; and a lot of love for single-class Monks because of their highest level abilities.

But very little mention of Rogues (single or multi), yet they seem to have a couple of key tools that can handle the hardest challenges? And you don't have to abuse the game engine to make use of them either, you just use the abilities (Gouging Stike and then some form of invisibility/smoke cloud to escape) as advertised. 

[Not So Clever Hound]

2 minutes ago, Jaheiras Witness said:

But very little mention of Rogues (single or multi), yet they seem to have a couple of key tools that can handle the hardest challenges

You are absolutely correct.

Ranged Assassin (single or multi) is IMO one of the strongest classes in the game if you are OK to play a stealthy character and if you don't have Berath's challenge on (but it's still ok then with Tactician/Assassin). You assassinate your enemies 1 by 1 or several at a time at higher lvl, then vanish with Smoke Veil, rinse and repeat until everyone is down.

If on top of that, you are willing to use Strand of Favor to extend duration of stuff (this is an exploit/abuse that is quite controversial but that definitely exists) then Assassin is without a doubt the strongest class in the game because you can be permanently under Vanishing Strike effect. Which also then make the game a complete yawn-fest because there will be absolutely zero combat challenge from then until the credit roll.

[Not So Clever Hound]

Not to self promote or anything  but if you're interested in playing a Rogue type, I've posted somewhat recently 2 builds (one ranged, one melee) that could be fun for you to look at (they are not exploiting Strand of Favor or anything).

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Not So Clever Hound]

28 minutes ago, Jaheiras Witness said:

abuse the game engine to make use of them either, you just use the abilities (Gouging Stike and then some form of invisibility/smoke cloud to escape) as advertised.

Sorry for the multiple posts  there is also a bit of debate on whether being able to put infinite DoTs on a target, vanish and retreat somewhere while the target is just standing there like a turnip until it's dead is an abuse of the game AI. My humble take on this is that one way or another if you want to solo the game on PotD, you'll have to rely upon one or two mechanics that are let's say "unconventional". Then it's up to each player of course to decide what they like and dislike for their own playthrough. Rogues give you a new set of options (exploits?) besides extending cannot-die effects or the shenanigans of SC Monks.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, Jaheiras Witness said:

But very little mention of Rogues (single or multi), yet they seem to have a couple of key tools that can handle the hardest challenges? And you don't have to abuse the game engine to make use of them either, you just use the abilities (Gouging Stike and then some form of invisibility/smoke cloud to escape) as advertised. 

True. But at the same time it turns the game into something else. A sneaky thief game. You have to have patience, do a lot of rinse & repeat and also be a little bit of a one-trick pony. I guess not everybody likes that (which is okay of course). Also it's not great for party play. Your party would have to be all Rogues (or Priest of Skaen or Wizards) or just get parked outside the encounter.  

[Reent]

I tried the Assassin/Paladin...

killed Doru lvl 8, simply attacked him once and ran to the hills - he didn't try to pull me (or if he did, it didn't work, took too long to watch).

 

And PotD can be tanked (a very conventional concept), no heavy exploits needed, it just is no fun (and... i don't know how to kill hauani o whe with a tank...) My Forbidden Fist/paladin killed everything while i did something else (his (final and only) death was to doru, after a few hours he died, i think he rolled high a few times in a row) 

[Not So Clever Hound]

5 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Your party would have to be all Rogues (or Priest of Skaen or Wizards) or just get parked outside the encounter

I like this phrasing. "Hey enemy, you laughin'? Ok let me go park my party over there and come back to you and gouge your eye out, then we'll see who's laughin'."

In the case of Doru, in 3 or 4h real life hours  

[Reent]

1 minute ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

I like this phrasing. "Hey enemy, you laughin'? Ok let me go park my party over there and come back to you and gouge your eye out, then we'll see who's laughin'."

In the case of Doru, in 3 or 4h real life hours  

3 or 4h?

I think it takes longer, he heals himself sometimes, i looked every hour for 3+ hours, i think he was at 50++%, a quiet night later he was dead.

[Not So Clever Hound]

1 minute ago, Reent said:

3 or 4h?

I think it takes longer, he heals himself sometimes, i looked every hour for 3+ hours, i think he was at 50++%, a quiet night later he was dead.

Gouging with high Power Level + True Love's Kiss gives a lot more DoT. You kill him faster at lvl 20 than at lvl 8 .

[Reent]

7 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

Gouging with high Power Level + True Love's Kiss gives a lot more DoT. You kill him faster at lvl 20 than at lvl 8 .

upscaled vs higher Power lvl/Might...

jeah, that's okay, 3 hours? 6 hours?, doesn't really change anything (as long as you don't use Beraths Challenge), i'd always do it at night

[Not So Clever Hound]

4 minutes ago, Reent said:

as long as you don't use Beraths Challenge

Agreed! But I think you refer to Eothas challenge (i.e. time limit for critical path quests)?

Berath's challenge prevents combat to end if you flee/go invisible. But that is irrelevant with Doru. Combat will not end anyway unless it or you die.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Reent]

2 minutes ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

Agreed! But I think you refer to Eothas challenge (i.e. time limit for critical path quests)?

Berath's challenge prevents combat to end if you flee/go invisible. But that is irrelevant with Doru. Combat will not end anyway unless it or you die.

Thought about Berath Blessing, forgot its different Gods for each challenge...

Jeah, the time limit challenge (i refuse to use it, always)

And Berath Challenge is my go to Challenge for solo, the ****ty combat system where the fight ends because you are solo and use invisibility right in front of the enemy, try to attack the enemy... and the fight restarts before you attack him... is a nightmare.

[Not So Clever Hound]

5 minutes ago, Reent said:

nd the fight restarts before you attack him... is a nightmare.

For certain builds it can be a pain indeed (e.g. Melee Assassin + other class). But in those cases you can just throw a first Gouging Strike attack (which will prevent combat to end before the afflicted target is dead) and then you have your own self contained Berath challenge  That's how I prefer to play Solo Rogue personally vs. having Berath's challenge on, because often the abillity to end fights prematurely actually speeds up the game. (kill, reset, kill, reset).

Edited April 30, 2021 by Not So Clever Hound

[Reent]

Tried killing Doru with a tank just now, first try i died to fire damage after 30-40 mins, 2nd try i used the fire cloak, after 1 hour doru was at full health... (his fire damage scales up...) now i am waiting for his death to True Love's Kiss...

He isn't doing anything after i used a scroll of withdraw out of his sight...

thx thread, i wouldn't  kill him without this thread 

 

[Griffonheart]

On 5/8/2021 at 2:41 AM, Reent said:

How is Forbidden Fist healing? I thought it's a self-damaging curse.

[Reent]

FF is a curse, you get damaged (about 13 per tick on that character i think) every tick, if you have enough resolve you get damaged once (35 resolve on that character), after the curse expires you get healed by the wound generating mechanism (on hostile effect expiring), this character heals 50-53 health per expiring hostile effect... (20 because he had only 20 damage)