Chanter gameplay

[Andres Arigon]

Hi

I am new in the game...

I as pure Chanter there is a way to do dps apart from the auto atacks? I know this class is more buff and debuff I love it.. but in the buff and debuff if I want to do DPS, is there a way without multiclass?

Thanks

[Jayd]

The invocations "Thrice was She Wronged", "Seven Nights She Waited", and "So Singt thy Biting Winds o' Eld Mary" (plus their upgrades) all do very good damage. Going single class, upgraded Eld Nary alone will carry many fights. Make sure you invest in Might (most important for getting damage out of all three spells).

The best subclass for spell DPS is the Skald. It can cast these damage spells much more often than other subclasses. The best balanced subclass for exploring everything the Chanter is capable of is Troubadour. Make sure you grab Sasha's Singing Scimitar and get the upgrade which restores your empower point every time you empower an invocation. 

Edit: BTW I wouldn't say that Chanters are more about buffing and debuffing - Chanters are better at summoning than anything. Buff/debuff and DPS are things they can do well but other classes can do just as well or better. No one summons better than a Chanter.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Jayd

[thelee]

skald is great for that, but if you also want general diversity as well, bellower is a good choice. you don't get the cheaper offensive chants, but you also don't get more expensive non-offensive chants (which includes a chant or two that are also offensive support), and all your invocations are much more powerful (but you have to make sure to use invocations when you can).

 

if you play on a higher difficulty, bellower can also do great for your dps because the bonus PL will help you penetrate enemy AR, which is more of a problem on PotD.

Edited March 30, 2021 by thelee

[Andres Arigon]

Oh I thought the chanter was the supporter class (the Bard of POE2) not the summon one. Also, I thought Troubadour was the most optimal an OP version of the Chanter. Maybe what I've read was an outdated guide.

To be honest I am looking for  a support class (buff and debuff) and a some heal.... maybe should I leave my Chanter because I am not big fan to summon stuff haha and try a Paladin or a Priest.

Who is the "bard" in this game?

Thanks guys

Edited March 30, 2021 by Andres Arigon

[Elric Galad]

In a nutshell :

Troubadour is OP and can do everything in an about optimal fashion without requiring specific building or favorable circonstances.

But other Subclasses can do a couple of things marginally better in favorable circonstances.

[Andres Arigon]

But is possible to play Chanter like a bard without summon things or I am nerfing myself and cutting chanter potential? I was thinking to not take any  summon skills and just focus on Buff/Debuff + healing skills + Crossbow +  Some of the range dps spells.. is it ok? or if I want to play this type of range bard is better other class like priest? -- sorry I am very new and I spent yesterday just 4hours in the character creating I didn't start playing yet! I don't know what class and subb class is the best for my gameplay

[Jayd]

A good Chanter doesn't have to summon. I've been playing a multiclass Skald focused on damage and crowd control and it's excellent.

If you specifically want the class focusing on buffs/debuffs with some healing and dps on the side, I think Priest is probably what you're looking for.

[omgFIREBALLS]

3 hours ago, Andres Arigon said:

But is possible to play Chanter like a bard without summon things or I am nerfing myself and cutting chanter potential? I was thinking to not take any  summon skills and just focus on Buff/Debuff + healing skills + Crossbow +  Some of the range dps spells.. is it ok? or if I want to play this type of range bard is better other class like priest? -- sorry I am very new and I spent yesterday just 4hours in the character creating I didn't start playing yet! I don't know what class and subb class is the best for my gameplay

I think there is a more important distinction here than what priests and chanters do, and it is how they do it.

A chanter never permanently runs out of resources. They sing as long as they're alive and not crowd controlled, providing you the benefit of their chants. And these chants add phrases, and phrases allow you to use invocations. A chanter never runs out of steam, but you cannot tell your chanter to throw five invocations in rapid succession, because you can only stockpile as many phrases as your most expensive invocation costs.

A priest (or wizard, or druid) on the other hand, has finite resources, but can spend them at their own leisure. Throw all your spells right after each other if you want, or space them out as the fight requires.

Another thing you might not have picked up about chanters is that chanting is not something they do actively. You might be used to bards who cannot do anything else while singing, but that is not the case with chanters. Your chanter can attack or cast spells while singing without missing a beat. This makes them great for multiclassing as you pretty much get someone who provides chants + invocations while doing all the things the other class does. Nothing stops you from solving your dilemma by playing a priest/chanter multiclass.

Mandatory addendum: Chanter is the best version of a bard I have seen in any RPG.

[Raven Darkholme]

4 hours ago, omgFIREBALLS said:

 

Mandatory addendum: Chanter is the best version of a bard I have seen in any RPG.

You should play IWD2

 

@OP

I wouldn't worry about the summons too much you can play the chanter like a bard.

If you have a priest in the party you can even extend the duration of the pure buff phrases via salvation of time, this allows a chanter to eventually put every single buff on the party but you might not have enough points on levelup to actually grab all of them.

And as @omgFIREBALLSpointed out the chanter can still do other stuff while chanting, the only thing interrupting phrases is using invocations.

[thelee]

An extra plus, in case it wasn't obvious, is that because chants happen automatically and have a fixed rate of progression (6s each, down to 3s with troubadour brisk recitation), chanters are spellcasters that are not nearly as significantly impacted by heavier armor, which gives you some equipment flexibility. Your invocation recoveries will be slower, but they make up a far smaller % of actions than a different spellcasting class's spells. If you wanted you could create a super melee tanky chanter and still be almost at full chanting effectiveness as one wearing robes.

I agree that Deadfire chanters are probably one of the best bard implementations in an RPG, and I played a lot of IWD2  (IWD and IWD2 did both have great bard implementations... relative to the AD&D/3e source material)

Edited March 30, 2021 by thelee

[Elric Galad]

6 hours ago, omgFIREBALLS said:

Mandatory addendum: Chanter is the best version of a bard I have seen in any RPG.

Yeah

2 hours ago, Raven Darkholme said:

You should play IWD2

Yes, but no

1 hour ago, thelee said:

I agree that Deadfire chanters are probably one of the best bard implementations in an RPG, and I played a lot of IWD2  (IWD and IWD2 did both have great bard implementations... relative to the AD&D/3e source material)

Yeah

Sorry I agreed so much with the previous statements that I had to react  

[Raven Darkholme]

9 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Yeah

Yes, but no

Yeah

Sorry I agreed so much with the previous statements that I had to react  

Well ofc it depends on how you define "best".

But the IWD2 bard is the most powerful bard in any rpg by far and also outshines any other class in that game, which tbf was kind of true for Poe1 bard, just not remotely on the same level.

If you go by how well a bard is implemented flavor wise ofc poe did a wonderful job.

[Elric Galad]

29 minutes ago, Raven Darkholme said:

Well ofc it depends on how you define "best".

But the IWD2 bard is the most powerful bard in any rpg by far and also outshines any other class in that game, which tbf was kind of true for Poe1 bard, just not remotely on the same level.

If you go by how well a bard is implemented flavor wise ofc poe did a wonderful job.

All IWD2 powergaming guides I have read suggest taking 11 levels of bards and quit for another class.

Granted that I don't do that too much because pure bard is plenty powerful enough for the way I like to play (not this HoF madness , and this 3rd edition class dipping abuses breaks my sense of party aesthetic).

Still the best designed bard before PoE  

Spoiler

Not related but just a word to say Isair and Madae and still my favorite archvillains. Too bad they have so few "screen time"
IWD serie is very-well written for a dungeon crawler game.
And IWD1&2 music is superior to even BG serie (only Planescape is as good, even if further to high fantasy ambiance) 

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by Elric Galad

[Raven Darkholme]

50 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

All IWD2 powergaming guides I have read suggest taking 11 levels of bards and quit for another class.

Granted that I don't do that too much because pure bard is plenty powerful enough for the way I like to play (not this HoF madness , and this 3rd edition class dipping abuses breaks my sense of party aesthetic).

Still the best designed bard before PoE  

  Reveal hidden contents

Not related but just a word to say Isair and Madae and still my favorite archvillains. Too bad they have so few "screen time"
IWD serie is very-well written for a dungeon crawler game.
And IWD1&2 music is superior to even BG serie (only Planescape is as good, even if further to high fantasy ambiance) 

 

Well if you want to 100% min max you don't play any class pure in 3.5e, but in terms of the bard you totally can. 

What breaks them isn't how you level them, except for your level 1 feat, Lingering Song, that makes songs stackable with each other and themselves :D.

[Haplok]

1 hour ago, Raven Darkholme said:

What breaks them isn't how you level them, except for your level 1 feat, Lingering Song, that makes songs stackable with each other and themselves :D.

Hm... so kinda like in Pathfinder: Kingmaker... prior to last patch.

[Andres Arigon]

Hi again guys.. 

As you know I would like to build my first character in this game like a pure bard (buff/dbuff) - no summons - to help my party!  

Questions:

1) What version of the chanter is the best option for a pure chanter (single class) who is not going to take any summon talent, melee or range? I guess melee because all the debuff are short range.

2) What is the best sub class follow above sentence? I guess Skald, should I go Mace / Shield?

3) Stats recommendation? Intellect > Might > Con/Res

Thanks guys

[Boeroer]

For versatility Troubadour is the best pick. Brisk Recitation and the longer Linger Time (when not using Brisk Recitation) are great. 

Bellower is very strong with some of the high Power level spells, most notably Eld Nary's Curse.

Skald is good as melee guy with a focus on offensive invocations.

If in doubt I would pick Troubadour. 

[thelee]

17 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

If in doubt I would pick Troubadour. 

To paraphrase an old American quote: "Nobody ever got fired for picking Troubadour"

I would virtually never pick a vanilla chanter. If any time one considers a vanilla chanter, get a Troubadour instead. The fact that pallegina, vatnir, and fassina come as generic chanters is a huge hit for them as party chanters unfortunately.

 

(original quote: "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM", though nowadays they probably should)

[Raven Darkholme]

For single class I think Bellower is better, but only if you're doing strand of favor cheese for Eld Nary.

Other than that 100% agree with the statements about Troubadour, which also has by far the best early game of all chanters.

[Andres Arigon]

Does it Old Siec Would Not Rest 'til His Hunger Was Sated scale with Might or something?

Also, If I go as a Troubadour is better option to go in melee? or crossbow + Sure-Handed Ila Nocked her Arrow with Speed is an viable option?

Edited April 1, 2021 by Andres Arigon

[omgFIREBALLS]

Sure-Handed Ila is good, but I wouldn't use as the only archer. You realize you're only going to keep 1-2 chants up at a time, so dedicating one of them just to buffing your own damage a bit just runs contrary to your support idea.

As a supporting character, the weapon types I'd consider are:
Club, target -25 will modal
Flail, target -25 reflex modal
Pike, target -10 deflection modal
Dagger, self +10 deflection modal
Wand, target -10 accuracy modal
Morning star is the -25 fortitude one but it's a two-hander and doesn't have the reach advantage of the pike, so you make yourself a very juicy target.

Of course, the saving throw reducing effects only make sense to use if your party actually relies on such abilities.

This said, as a supporting chanter you might love Sasha's Singing Scimitar, which has some enchantments tailored to chanters, one of them being an aura. It pairs well with the shield Lethandria's Devotion, which also comes with an aura. Plus, the medium shield modal is fantastic.

[Andres Arigon]

Quote

Club, target -25 will modal
Flail, target -25 reflex modal
Pike, target -10 deflection modal
Dagger, self +10 deflection modal

What are this modal things? 

If I play as a Troubadour chanter should keep my new passive (which makes the passives go faster) all time on.. or in which situation is better tune it off and on

Edited April 1, 2021 by Andres Arigon

[omgFIREBALLS]

Modals are a toggle you get for being proficient in a weapon. Typically it's you attack slower or for less damage with this weapon, but... and the but is, in the case of the club, you reduce your target's will with your attacks.

Mandatory reminder that there is no penalty for using a weapon you're not proficient with other than not having the option to turn on the modal.

All modals: https://pillarsofeternity2.wiki.fextralife.com/Weapon+Abilities

Use Brisk Recitation if phrase accumulation rate is more important to you than chant uptime. At the start it's a no-brainer to keep it on because you only know one chant anyway. I almost never use BR after that because it pleases the master to have full uptime on two chants, whether or not throwing more invocations would be better.

Edited April 1, 2021 by omgFIREBALLS

[Andres Arigon]

Cool thank you for all your tips! I cannot wait to create my first character tonight..

Just to double check if...

1. I want to play my chanter as a support class more an offensive DPS or Summoner.
2. the buff and debuff are not needed, I would like to hit some mobs to help my team
3. I think chanter is a melee class because, the debuffs have a very close range, so I guess I need to be in melee.

So even with above points Troubadour is much better option than Skald?

I assume Skald is for a chanter who wants to focus more on DPS and debuffing enemies becuase you have to hit a lot in order to get some resources back, am I right?

Thanks

[Elric Galad]

In a Nutshell, Skald is better if using mainly low level offensive invocations such as the AoE Paralysis. Which is fine. A bit of a Thu'um spammer. Even for Eld Nary spamming (arguably the best offensive invocation), I would pick Troubadour (18s phrases refund Vs 24s for a Skald unless you Crit a lot). 

Skald is totally viable but Troubadour does almost everything better unless you are really focused and knows perfectly what you are doing.

Edited April 1, 2021 by Elric Galad