Anime - A Rollercoaster of Emotion

[Bartimaeus]

I'll most likely start SuperS not this coming week, but rather the next. Won't have much time to watch anything this upcoming week (and actually, I might not be on here as much either), but it'll be better after that.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[HoonDing]

 

[majestic]

Managed to get Jojo's Bizarre Adventure up to episode 7.
 

Spoiler

 

Figured out that the wizened old master would fall victim to the usual tropes and die long before he revealed that he's a full Obi-Wan and knowingly walked to his death. But it's not bad, it's nicely done and full of epic pathos. In what other setting would a body cut in half live long enough to give a final speech?

 

 

 

I'm beginning to like this. Still not sure about Speedwagon's constant monologuing, but it seems to have picked up some pace now. By the looks of it the Phantom Blood part should be over soon. At least the little blurbs I accidentially looked because Netflix has them in the episode overview suggest that episode 10 is set some 70 years into the future (of the setting, anyway).

The muscle dude look I don't really care about, one way or the other. The show's art direction did take some getting used to at first, I'll admit. I kind of had to force myself to watch the second episode. Still, not going to say it's growing on me, but it's okay now.

Edited March 8, 2021 by majestic

[Lexx]

Jojo felt real weird to me at first, but I kept running with it, because it had such a weird atmosphere and style.

Stardust Crusaders later lost me after a few episodes, because it's such a huge difference to "the original" show. After picking it up again some months later however it kinda clicked with me and I started to really like it.

Have to see it like this: All the characters are absolute Chads, and they will always win. It's the *how* that it is all about, though. Also you just have to accept that it is quite wacky.

Sucks that Netflix doesn't have the followup stuff (yet?).

/Edit: oh wow, Thus Spoke Kishibe Rohan is on Netflix now, though. Gonna add that to my list right away.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Lexx

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

5 minutes ago, Lexx said:

All the characters are absolute Chads, and they will always win.

We may have different conceptions of winning.

[Lexx]

Well, that was mostly about Stardust Crusaders and less about the early stuff.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

8 minutes ago, Lexx said:

Well, that was mostly about Stardust Crusaders and less about the early stuff.

I guess that's kinda true but (incoming JoJo SC spoilers, plus don't read if you haven't finished season 2)

 

Half of them dying by the end seems to not be a big win

Edited March 8, 2021 by KaineParker

[majestic]

15 hours ago, majestic said:

@KaineParker I sure will, but I'm not entirely certain how much free time I'll have in the upcoming weeks to sneak an episode or two of either JoJo's or Steven Universe in. I'm currently stuck in a business acceptance test that is about to finish, and unless the other parties involved find something that went wrong on their end it's going to be release time soon, and this one is not going to be pretty.

This is worse than I thought. The testing was supposed to last until CW 11. We'll be launching production early this week, or so I've been told. In other words, I'm off to take a nap and prepare for an all nighter. It's not like I pulled one yesterday, what could possibly go wrong?

Spoiler

Sailor Moon should have let Nehelenia win. Dammit.

 

[InsaneCommander]

8 hours ago, HoonDing said:

 

A classic. One of the first animes I watched.

[majestic]

Has anyone of you seen (or read) Puella Magi Madoka Magica?

Edited March 8, 2021 by majestic

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

50 minutes ago, majestic said:

Has anyone of you seen (or read) Puella Magi Madoka Magica?

Nope, though I recognize some of it from memes.

[InsaneCommander]

2 hours ago, majestic said:

Has anyone of you seen (or read) Puella Magi Madoka Magica?

No. But I recognize the characters. I must have seen them as a mod in some game.

[InsaneCommander]

Spoiler

 

The Chibiusa episode was great. The coffee scene, the boys calling Minako old, Sailor Uranus and Neptune abandoning the others again, Sailor Chibi Moon’s attack...

 

So future Usagi is trolling her past self by sending Chibiusa back again. It started really well, with the little boy taking off his pants in front of Chibiusa.

 

Sailor Uranus and Neptune were wise enough to attack first and do their introduction later, but then they abandoned Chibiusa alone.

 

It would be interesting if one of the talismans was Michiru’s heart. What would Haruka do?

 

 

[majestic]

12 hours ago, KaineParker said:

Nope, though I recognize some of it from memes.

 

10 hours ago, InsaneCommander said:

No. But I recognize the characters. I must have seen them as a mod in some game.

Well, there is a PSP game, so it is possible you maye have come across something official, not a mod.

Anyway, I stumbled upon this while I was looking for something quick to watch, a movie or a really short series that fits in between what I fear will be an upcoming hellish workload after an interesting launch tomorrow. The original anime has 12 episode, and it often comes up as anime that would not exist had Sailor Moon not been a success, so I got curious and kind of cheated on JoJo's and Steven Universe.

It follows the tale of Madoka and Sayaka, two best friends from school. Having a successful carreer mother but no special talents of her own, Madoka is plagued by feelings of inadequacy, while Sayaka is secretly in love with a hopeful young musician who suffered a tragic accident that will, so the doctors say, render him forever unable to perform. Their luck seems to change when a disturbingly cute little creature offers them the deal of a lifetime: He will grant them a wish, in exchange for signing a pact, becoming mahō shōjo (literally magical girls) who fight witches secretly threatening the world.

Spoiler

Or does it?

Would you trust him?

 

It does have an issue with explaining a plot element that needed no real explanation, and it is ridiculous enough to be immersion breaking for a moment, but otherwise it's great (it might not even bother you too much). The animation would be better without CGI, but that's almost always the case for modern anime, at least it is used to good effect here. The witches live and work their magic in colorful surrealist hellscapes that could have come straight from Joel Veitch's earlier work (see Frightend Boy, for instance).

Overall it looks great and the soundtrack is fantastic.

The spoiler is just added for effect. It doesn't spoil anything you wouldn't see immediately.

Edited March 9, 2021 by majestic

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

6 hours ago, majestic said:

Would you trust him?

I dunno, before Sailor Moon I'd have assumed a pegasus with a horn who protects our dreams would be ok but now I've learned that isn't true.

[majestic]

2 hours ago, KaineParker said:

I dunno, before Sailor Moon I'd have assumed a pegasus with a horn who protects our dreams would be ok but now I've learned that isn't true.

Image from the first episode:

Spoiler

Care for some nightmares?

Compared to Pegasus this thing plays fair though. Maybe not with the girls, but with us viewers. 

Spoiler

What else would you expect from Gen Urobuchi. Heh.

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

3 minutes ago, majestic said:

Image from the first episode:

  Hide contents

Care for some nightmares?

Compared to Pegasus this thing plays fair though. Maybe not with the girls, but with us viewers. 

  Hide contents

What else would you expect from Gen Urobuchi. Heh.

 

My interest in the show just increased. 

[majestic]

5 hours ago, KaineParker said:

My interest in the show just increased. 

Fair word of warning [spoiler redacted] - suffice it to say you have expressed a certain dislike for a plot point that comes up. Still, it's just 12 episodes anyway. And it's really... good.

The ending would also make Studio Gainax proud. But that's a whole different deal.

Edited March 9, 2021 by majestic

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, majestic said:

Fair word of warning [spoiler redacted] - suffice it to say you have expressed a certain dislike for a plot point that comes up. Still, it's just 12 episodes anyway. And it's really... good.

The ending would also make Studio Gainax proud. But that's a whole different deal.

I'll keep that in mind. If this is about timey wimey shenanigans, then I don't hate those as much as I just hate superheroes. As long as they're done well, which is unfortunately rare.

[Bartimaeus]

Write up on some anime thingies I've watched over the past week or two during my break of Sailor Moon:

Horus, Prince of the Sun (1968). Isao Takahata's first film... I had a lot of trouble getting into this one. Extremely stilted, has a very generic sort of boy adventure story with very standard and kind of uncharming characters, and wasn't funny or entertaining in some other kind of way to really make it worthwhile. Congratulations on finally making something I explicitly didn't like, Mr. Takahata - the closest things to it before this were My Neighbor the Yamadas (which wasn't...bad, just the vignette format didn't really work for a long movie) and Panda! Go Panda! (which at least was weird enough to make it sort of entertaining).

Ranma 1/2: The Movie, Big Trouble in Nekonron, China (1991). I knew I was in for some trouble when they introduced literally what felt like two dozen characters who all seemed to be part of what felt like an ensemble a la Dragon Ball Z within like the first 5 minutes, especially in the way that they did it. Hoo boy...and lots of other confusing stuff I had trouble catching on to for a while as well (like why are there grandma and grandpa characters that literally look exactly the same with opposite personalities...why does this lady suddenly transform into a cat out of the blue...wait, is the main character a boy or a girl - or are they both, what's going on!?). ...This movie wasn't necessarily great, but it was at least pretty funny and kept me entertained, so good job, movie.

Still watching an episode of Heidi every once in a while (it's enjoyable and I like this sort of laid back natural world experience Heidi is going through...but it is a show that you probably don't want to watch too much of at a time), and I'm about halfway through gosh-danged stupid Speed Racer because I keep getting roped into watching it. Speed Racer is bizarre in that like 1/3rd of the episodes are surprisingly competent and actually decent entertainment, 1/3rd of the episodes are hilarious memes, and then 1/3rd are just inexplicably bewildering and terrible. If I wasn't actually watching this with someone else, there's no way I would've stuck with this, but as far as absolute pants shows go, it's decently entertaining.

(e): Also, no, I've never heard of that show, and I don't recognize anything from it, but that would make sense.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[majestic]

6 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Isao Takahata's

Hm. I've seen most of his TV animes (Heidi, Perrine, Dog of Flanders) and Grave of the Fireflies. He seems to have a faible for depressing entertainment. Is his other work any different?

6 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Ranma 1/2: The Movie, Big Trouble in Nekonron, China (1991). I knew I was in for some trouble when they introduced literally what felt like two dozen characters who all seemed to be part of what felt like like an ensemble a la Dragon Ball Z within like the first 5 minutes, especially in the way that they did it.

That's mostly because it is. You're probably missing the five seasons of Ranma 1/2 that came before the film (plus the original 18 episodes of the first attempt to make an anime adaptation).

6 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

(e): Also, no, I've never heard of that show, and I don't recognize anything from it, but that would make sense.

To use trope parlance, Puella Magi Madoka Magica is a Magical Girl genre Deconstructor Fleet.

Spoiler alert:

Spoiler

 

It is a very, very... dark look at what would actually happen if 14 year old girls were for some reason roped into fighting supernatural battles to help mankind. The writer of the show, Gen Urobuchi, is lovingly called Urobutcher by anime fans for a reason. There is also a massive disconnect with the incredibly cute look of the show.

One of the earliest episodes brutally kills off the mentor character that Madoka and Sayaka follow to see if maybe becoming a Magical Girl would be something for them. They enter the surrealist nightmare dimension of a witch to fight it. A concise German clip is all I could find (the others all have the entire scene), but the dialogue doesn't matter anyway.

Mami dies (and stays dead), and Madoka and Sayaka have to deal with it, and since her body has been, well, eaten by the witch it is also never found as they can't bring it out of the witch's dimension. The police and the school, everyone thinks she's gone missing or was abducted, and none of the girls can tell anyone what actually happened. Who would believe them?

If you ever wanted to explore Minako's thoughts in Sailor Moon S further then maybe you might want to avoid any more spoilers and watch.

 

However, be warned, additional spoiler of one of the later plot twists:

Spoiler

There is time travel. In a way... and even though it is never shown on screen, alternate timelines and dimensions are strongly implied.

 

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by majestic

[Amentep]

7 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Ranma 1/2: The Movie, Big Trouble in Nekonron, China (1991). I knew I was in for some trouble when they introduced literally what felt like two dozen characters who all seemed to be part of what felt like like an ensemble a la Dragon Ball Z within like the first 5 minutes, especially in the way that they did it. Hoo boy...and lots of other confusing stuff I had trouble catching on to for a while as well (like why are there grandma and grandpa characters that literally look exactly the same with opposite personalities...why does this lady suddenly transform into a cat out of the blue...wait, is the main character a boy or a girl - or are they both, what's going on!?). ...This movie wasn't necessarily great, but it was at least pretty funny and kept me entertained, so good job, movie.

The main character is a boy who fell into a cursed hot spring while training with his dad.  He is cursed by the cursed hot spring of a drowned girl so when he is touched by hot water he becomes a girl, and cold water a boy.  Similarly his dad is cursed to be a panda (and who, to get out of trouble, pretends to be a literal panda) and a large number of the cast for a variety of reasons end up at the same training springs and cursed by various drowned entities.

Also everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, can be boiled down to a vaguely martial arts-like competition.  Ice skating, dance competitions, chess, whatever. Add in that the main character cannot turn down a challenge and will always end up in the wrong body for what he's trying to accomplish and comedy ensues.

[majestic]

Final thoughts on Puella Magi Madoka Magica the anime (haven't seen any of the films yet). Quick note: I think it is worth watching if you enjoyed at least one other magical girl anime.

 

Kawaii! From left to right, Sayaka, Homura, Madoka (with Kyubey), Mami, Kyoko

Well, doesn't the cast look cute?

Things to keep in mind. I'll mark spoilers. The show itself consists of only 12 episodes, many of which have interesting moments and some that have plot twists. Look up the spoilers at your own peril if you maybe want to  watch it. Should be available on Netflix in the US from what I've read.

To quote myself, from earlier:

[Madoka Magica] follows the tale of Madoka and Sayaka, two best friends from school. Having a successful carreer mother but no special talents of her own, Madoka is plagued by feelings of inadequacy, while Sayaka is secretly in love with a hopeful young musician who suffered a tragic accident that will, so the doctors say, render him forever unable to perform. Their luck seems to change when a disturbingly cute little creature offers them the deal of a lifetime: He will grant them a wish, in exchange for signing a pact, becoming mahō shōjo (literally magical girls) who fight witches secretly threatening the world.

Animation

Is a mixture of 2D and 3D CGI, sometimes used to extremely disturbing ends. As cute as the characters are, outside of the fighting sequences, the world, the artstyle and the atmosphere of this show are extremely somber and... heavy. There is a weight to this world that is absolutely at odds with how adorable everything else looks. This stark contrast is very much deliberate.

Soundtrack

Is actually fantastic. Granted, you might not enjoy the music based on its genre, but it fits and underscores the scenes it is in perfectly - which is the point of a soundtrack anyway, no? Unlike say in Sailor Moon Crystal, where the music isn't so bad as much as it is overused and extremely distracting when it happens.

Plot

Oh boy. Where to start.

You have a really cute little animal that offers two girls a wish in exchange for their help in fighting evil. At roughly the same time, a transfer student named Homura shows up in Madoka's and Sayaka's class. Dark haired and a ominous, she immediately warns Madoka to stay the way she is, if she truly loves her friends and family. And that is really all we can talk about without going into spoiler territory.
 

Spoiler

 

The next time she shows up she even attacks the kawaii little animal for no apparent reason, further cementing the impression that she's going to be a problem going forward. Meanwhile, the other two girls are accompanying Mami, a very happy and bubbly magical girl that is showing them the ropes, in order to help with their decision. When Mami and Homura meet, they are immediately at odds with each other.

Mami explains how she became a magical girl, and it all goes to hell from there.
 

Spoiler

 

Mami, you see, was given the option by Kyubey (the animal) after suffering a fatal car accident. In order to save her own life, Mami accepted his... bargain. Aside from Kyubey telling the girls that they'll be signing a pact with him, this is the first of many, many clues that Kyubey isn't a fuzzy little friend to girls, but instead a predator that feasts on the hopes, dreams and fears of teenage girls.

Kyubey is obviously offering the girls Faustian bargains here. Obviously.

The actual explanation of what Kyubey really does is pretty lame. It's the low point of the show and threw me out of immersion for a bit. I'll put it in this sub spoiler tag. Fair warning, it gives a way one of the plot points, but if you've read this far you already know that this thing is more akin to the devil than a friend.

Spoiler

He takes the emotional energy of teenage girls, because it is powerful enough to violate the laws of thermodynamics. Kyubey claims he is using the energy to keep the universe from reaching maximum entropy, and he does not understand why the girls are not exactly at peace with being used to save all of existence.

Mami also explains that the witches leave magical items called grief seeds that the magical girls need to purify their soul gems - the transformation items granted to them by Kyubey. As such, sometimes magical girls fight with each other of the spoils of the fight. This is later shown to be true when Kyoko shows up to attack Sayaka.

 

What happens to Mami:

Spoiler

Mami dies a horrific death at the hands of one of the witches. A sad sacrifice, Kyubey says, but every Magical Girl knows that it is dangerous, and they're fighting evil to protect their loved ones. He plays fair, as they are warned. Both Madoka and Sayaka declare that they have no intentions of becoming Magical Girls.

Mid point:
 

Spoiler

 

Alas, as it is with the devil, he's a shrewd one. He keeps showing up and asking the girls if they've changed their mind. And he finally gets Sayaka after she has a fight with the boy she loves. Broken she asks for his health to be restored, and becomes a magical girl.

Once she truly realizes what she has become by selling her soul to the devil, she falls into utter despair. All hopes and dreams of hers are crushed when she realizes that the the soul gem she received with which to transform isn't just holding her power. It is her. Her body is essentially a dead shell. Horrified she realizes that she cannot be with her love and watches as one of her friends asks him out. Kyubey on the other hand makes the point that with her body only a shell, she can fight stronger, harder and longer than with an actual human body. He uses her soul gem to torture her by inducing immense pain to drive the point home.

The plot takes another turn when we see what happens to Sayaka after her Soul Gem is completely corrupted by her negative emotions. She refuses to cleanse it with the grief seed of a witch she not just defeats, but brutally butchers. He Soul Gem turns black and becomes a grief seed. We see Kyubey remarking that since girls are women then they grow up, magical girls will invariably become witches. He simply perpetuates an endless, vicious cycle of violence, grief and despair to siphon as much energy from the girls as possible.

 

At this point the show isn't done yet:
 

Spoiler

 

Kyubey really wants Madoka, because he senses her potential. No other girl will give him as much energy. Kyoko, who has become friends with Sayaka after their initial fight, wants to try and help her, maybe turning her back into a magical girl. She asks Kyubey if that even is at all possible, and he tells her he doesn't know, and that it might be worth a try.

He of course knows that there is no point in trying, he just wants Kyoko to die so Homura is the only one left, eventally forcing Madoka to agree to his bargain. Kyoko dies in the attempt to save Sayaka, who is also destroyed.

 

The final twist comes in the form of a flashback.
 

Spoiler

 

Homura is shown as a normal, shy girl - not at all the cold, calculating and mysterious girl that she is now. She meets Madoka and Sayaka and strikes up a friendship, especially with Madoka whom she truly loves (not just in the friendship way). The three meet Mami, and Sayaka and Madoka become magical girls.

In an attempt to fight off a terribly powerful witch poised to destroy the city the girls are living in they all die, save for Homura. Still a normal girl at this point, Kyubey shows up and asks her if there's something she might wish for. Faced with losing everything she ever loved, Homura accepts: She wants to be able to go back in time and save Madoka.

The rest of the episode shows a handful of attempts by Homura to save everyone, to no avail. No matter what she does, no matter how hard she tries or fights, it always ends up with everyone but her dying, and her resetting the timeline. The anime makes sure that the viewer knows this has potentially happened hundreds of times.

Kyubey, meanwhile, watches and notices that every time, Madoka becomes more powerful. For some reason, her energy is carried over the resets. Homura's attempts to save Madoka have not only not worked, they have made sure that when Madoka turns into a witch, she will be so powerful that she cannot be stopped. Madoka will destroy the world.

Back to the current timeline. Homura, in vain, once again attempts to fight off Walpurgis (yeah, well... all the witches have German names because Japan loves German for some reason), but is still defeated. No matter how much she prepares, this seems to always be her fate. While she prepares once again to reset time and try again, Madoka shows up and tells her it will be all right. She finally figured out what her wish is.

 

The end:

Spoiler

 

Madoka wishes for the cycle to be broken, using her enormous power to change the entire universe at the expense of her existence: The magical girls no longer become witches, but fight monsters instead... like they always do in other animes. Madoka and Homura share one last tender moment together. Homura's memories stay intact, while everyone else's are affected. Kyoko and Mami are resurrected, but Sayaka stays dead, because Madoka, now the personification of hope and a literal goddess, takes Sayaka with her to spare her any more grief. Madoka is shown to guide dying magical girls to heaven.

Kyubey is turned into a nice little animal that no longer needs to prey on girls to find energy to save the universe. Fighting monsters is taken up by girls because they want to help, not because they were tricked into a bargain. Homura talks to him and he muses that under different circumstances, his relationship with the magical girls might just be very different.

 

Final thoughts:
 

Spoiler

 

Appears to be a straightforward Magical Girl anime at first, only to become a twisted and surprisingly terrifying exploration of hope, despair, utilitarianism and the psychological issues of the magical girls. It's not entirely unfair in this, because outside of the cute girl looks the show makes certain you understand that you're not watching something that is going to be happy-go-lucky right from the start.

Still, it makes sure to kick the viewer while they're down. Repeatedly. But where there is despair, sometimes, there is also hope.

 

 

TL;DR, or: I don't want to be spoiled:

It's worth a watch for the meta commentary on the genre alone.

To close up, when watching, keep Homura's words in mind:

Quote

Don't forget. Always, somewhere, someone is fighting for you.
As long as you remember her, you are not alone.

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by majestic

[Bartimaeus]

5 hours ago, Amentep said:

The main character is a boy who fell into a cursed hot spring while training with his dad.  He is cursed by the cursed hot spring of a drowned girl so when he is touched by hot water he becomes a girl, and cold water a boy.  Similarly his dad is cursed to be a panda (and who, to get out of trouble, pretends to be a literal panda) and a large number of the cast for a variety of reasons end up at the same training springs and cursed by various drowned entities.

Also everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, can be boiled down to a vaguely martial arts-like competition.  Ice skating, dance competitions, chess, whatever. Add in that the main character cannot turn down a challenge and will always end up in the wrong body for what he's trying to accomplish and comedy ensues.

Okay, so yeah, seems very similar in setup, style, and tone to the original Dragon Ball. Also seems to have been made around the same time. Guess it makes sense I was moderately entertained by it.

@majestic Takahata: Now that you mention it, most of his stuff does seem to be more grounded and bittersweet if not outright dark and depressing. I think I tend to favor his work over Miyazaki's - I like my fantastical stuff to be a little more low-key and grounded, which he seem to be all too happy to oblige with when he bothers with fantasy at all. Also, it helps that Takahata can write satisfying endings to his works, which I think tends to be Miyazaki's greatest flaw.

That show looks to be *so* not my thing outside of the fact that it's an inversion of the genre, but...you did say it was only 12 episodes, which is nice. I guess I can give it a try!

Edited March 10, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

@majesticSince the series itself is only 12 episodes long (not counting movies), how do you think it compares to a season of SMC in terms of pacing and supporting characters?

And is the CGI going to give me uncanny valley vibes like the recent Berserk Anime it High School Girl?