[Mechanics/small PSA] Boar spiritshift DoT

[Elric Galad]

On 11/3/2020 at 9:32 PM, Boeroer said:

Holy moly the Helwalker/Boar shifts for over 30 secs and the raw DoT lash lasts for over 13 secs. Also Heartbeat Drumming was doing some procs (picked Lightning Strikes so lesser chance of crit-chaining). But I totally forgot how good Taste of the Hunt with maxed INT and MIG from Helwalker is. Jeez it applies its forst tick with the attack which already leads to great dmg right away but then ticks for ~30 raw every 3 secs, lasts nearly 30 secs (that's 300 dmg yo!) and naturally stacks with the boar lash. ONE strike with Taste of the Hunt as Boar with 30 INT/MIG almost kills a CRE_Dummy. And it's not even a Full Attack...

Streetfighter is pretty crazy, too. But I encountered something weird: Ring the Bell's raw dmg doesn't apply.  Toxic Strike and the rest does. I suspect that the claw weapons ar not recognized as "proper" one-handed weapons by Ring the Bell or something?
 

I've found an issue when trying to implement Duration scaling : it is most likely going to increase duration of the raw DoT as well.

A simple fix (complicated fixes don't seem to work  ) would be to make raw DoT duration fixed.
Good thing is that it would align it with how Community Patch treated Deep Wounds and Wounding Shot (by giving them fix duration).

My question is : should it be 6s for 30% raw damages or 9s for 40% raw damages ? 9s would be equivalent to +10 INT which is generous... but not in all cases.
But Cat Form get +33% base speed increase so 40% over 9s does not seem to generous (let's say cat flurry and boar regen/engagement bonus are equally strong  )
What do you think ? 

I wish there was another solution, but it does not seem so for now.

[Elric Galad]

So for once, I'm not going to speak about my mod, but I have some important information :

1) Boar DoT follows the Unbending rules in term of damages :

 https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/109535-mechanics-various-testing/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-2213583

That means the ticks apply not every 3s but every minimum(3s;next boar wound apply).
With a 2.7s attack speed, the wound will tick every 2.7s. The total duration isn't changed, which means one can apply more 10% damages than (duration/3s + 1 for inital tick).
With 3.1 attack speed, the wound will tick 3s, 0.1s, 3s, 0.1s, etc... greater increasing one's DPS.

2) The Shifter version is bugged : wound base duration isn't 6s but 22s (same as the modal duration).


Now I let you figure how you can abuse this...

 

[thelee]

3 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

With 3.1 attack speed, the wound will tick 3s, 0.1s, 3s, 0.1s, etc... greater increasing one's DPS.

i'm having flashbacks to diablo 2 attack speed breakpoints

 

3 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

2) The Shifter version is bugged : wound base duration isn't 6s but 22s (same as the modal duration).

[dgray62]

I noticed while recently playing a Helwalker/Shifter that the wound base duration was very long, close to 30s with high INT. Is this a bad thing or a good thing?

[Elric Galad]

25 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

I noticed while recently playing a Helwalker/Shifter that the wound base duration was very long, close to 30s with high INT. Is this a bad thing or a good thing?

Depends on your definition of Good vs Bad. That's a single player game.

What is sure is that it is unintentional.

The discrepancy between Shifter and other Subclasses and the gamedata files themselves (I've spotted from where it comes, it is from some outdated overriding parameter that has no other effect) show that it was not intended.

So for my part I will correct. I would feel like using a glitch.

Edited November 11, 2020 by Elric Galad

[AndreaColombo]

It’s great that it can be fixed via scripting

[Boeroer]

Yesterday I tried a melee Bloodmage/Lifegiver Boar with Zandethu's Draconic Fury, Alacrity, Infuse, Merciless Gaze, Eldritch Aim, Llengrath's Safeguard and all that selfbuffing stuff. Wall of Draining prolongs the shift and all healing over time endlessly which is cool because you will have the extra +5 PL for healing spells all the time. 

The damage was also good. All the lashes of Draconic Fury and Wildstrike add up nicely. Of course that's all high-level stuff. Before that the melee dmg isn't that cool.  

[dgray62]

53 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

Depends on your definition of Good vs Bad. That's a single player game.

Thanks. It would result in more damage overall right? Unless I am mistaken, I thought extending the length of DoTs led to more damage. But I must admit my understanding of game mechanics is limited.

[dgray62]

17 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Yesterday I tried a melee Bloodmage/Lifegiver Boar with Zandethu's Draconic Fury, Alacrity, Infuse, Merciless Gaze, Eldritch Aim, Llengrath's Safeguard and all that selfbuffing stuff. Wall of Draining prolongs the shift and all healing over time endlessly which is cool because you will have the extra +5 PL for healing spells all the time. 

The damage was also good. All the lashes of Draconic Fury and Wildstrike add up nicely. Of course that's all high-level stuff. Before that the melee dmg isn't that cool.  

Yes, the combo with Helwalker is extremely strong at the start, but I would imagine it is outshined late game by this Bloodmage/Lifegiver combo late game. This sounds like a fun combo however, even early game. You'd have great healing which synergizes well with Bloodmage, and you could lay down some strong DoT or pulsing effects early (chillfog, Concelhaut's Corrosive Siphon, Touch of Rot) which would complement nicely the boar wounding, and all of which could trigger Combusting Wounds for some great damage.

[Elric Galad]

19 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

Thanks. It would result in more damage overall right? Unless I am mistaken, I thought extending the length of DoTs led to more damage. But I must admit my understanding of game mechanics is limited.

Yes, it's (1+ (22s*Int bonus / 3))  × 10% base damages x a Factor that depends on how you "refresh" the wound tick. Yep minimum 80% added damages.

[dgray62]

1 hour ago, Elric Galad said:

Yes, it's (1+ (22s*Int bonus / 3))  × 10% base damages x a Factor that depends on how you "refresh" the wound tick. Yep minimum 80% added damages.

Thanks for the clear explanation. My Helwalker/Shifter was doing incredible damage in boar form.

[dgray62]

Ultimately, I think the Bloodmage/Lifegiver multiclass would be best for getting maximum use of the boar shift. This is because with wizard and Deltro's Cage Helm, you could also get a huge lightning lash that could be extended indefinitely with Wall of Draining.

[Elric Galad]

3 minutes ago, dgray62 said:

Ultimately, I think the Bloodmage/Lifegiver multiclass would be best for getting maximum use of the boar shift. This is because with wizard and Deltro's Cage Helm, you could also get a huge lightning lash that could be extended indefinitely with Wall of Draining.

Yup, but at this point, do you even need the Boar DoT ?
I think that lashes stack additively. Therefore, maybe the cat "better DPS without Lash" could be more significant.

[Boeroer]

Yes, lashes do not multiply with each other - but still with the physical dmg roll.

So basically like: (dmg roll + dmg bonuses) * (lash1 + lash2 + lash3). Separate PEN/AR issues ignored.

To be fair everything pales in comparison to a prolonged, high value shocking lash from Deltro's Cage Helmet. Wizard is supernice in that regard because he can always shock himself (or party members) reliably.

What I missed with a Bloodmage/Boar were some nice attack abilities. It's all about buffing up a ton and then just doing auto-attacks (besides Taste of the Hunt which Blood Sacrifice will not replenish). Stuff like Helwalker/Boar or Forbidden Fist/Boar is def. more fun to play for me. Forbidden Fist/Boar is also fun because you can run through your own Tanglefoot and get a lot of wounds because the rel. short-lived Hobbled afflictions expire all the time (especially with Clarity of Agony activated). 



 

[Elric Galad]

22 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Yes, lashes do not multiply with each other - but still with the physical dmg roll.

So basically like: (dmg roll + dmg bonuses) * (lash1 + lash2 + lash3). Separate PEN/AR issues ignored.

Thx

22 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

 

To be fair everything pales in comparison to a prolonged, high value shocking lash from Deltro's Cage Helmet. Wizard is supernice in that regard because he can always shock himself (or party members) reliably.
 

Wizard can use crackling bolt for this, but don't you need a wall to hit yourself reliably with it ? I'm not sure if other spells could be used.

[Boeroer]

You can cast Chain Lightning on yourself. No walls needed. A higher lash than from Crackling Bolt is the result (most of times). 

 

Edit: Stormspeakers can also do it, but unfortunately the only playable Stormspeaker in the game has no head slot.

Edit2: I have never checked if a Fury's "Storm's Rage" (1/encounter abilitywhile shifted) can be cast on yourself. 

Edit3: A Fury can cast Storm's Rge on herself when shifted but hehe: I forgot that a Storm Blight is immune to shock damage.  But at least a Fury can cast a high dmg shocking spell on somebody with Deltro's Cage Helm on. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Boeroer

[dgray62]

Wizards have three spells with which they can inflict shock damage, I think. The reason I mentioned the wall is that using it to extend the boar shift and other buffs would also extend the lightning lash from the helm, I think. As for fury, personally I'd go with Lifegiver to get the boosted healing, since you can inflict lightning damage as a wizard starting right at level 1.