Tell me about your POTD Monk builds!

[mjo2138]

Hi,

 

I've been searching to find some good monk builds, and I would appreciate if you can tell me what you think is good for a single class monk build. I play with a party in POTD upscaled. I feel like I spend so much time thinking about what stats to choose, which subclass, and it would be great to bounce ideas around! I wanna use Whispers of the Wind , so I don't wanna multiclass. 

Thanks in advance. 

 

So far, I am thinking wood elf, hellwaker 

I would focus on dex, resolve heavily, to mitigate damage. I would keep priestbot Xoti buffing me in party if I go this route

 

I like the skill for Forbidden Fist, but I am worried wound generation would be a problem later on, especially for megaboss fights. 

 

[dgray62]

There was a thread on this topic recently that you might find helpful. A Helwalker SC monk was the first build with which I completed the game, and it was a lot of fun. In a party, you don't need high resolve; I dumped it, kept CON at 10, and boosted the remaining stats. The run was a lot of fun; monks start strong and end up godlike at the end.

If you would like to keep resolve high, you really should try a SC forbidden fist. They are very durable, far more than a Helwalker, and the FF curse is devastating. It does a huge amount of damage late game since it scales so nicely with power levels. Enfeebled is great because it extends all negative effects. You can easily permastun/paralyze foes with stunning surge and Grave Calling with the grave bound upgrade. Mepp22 suggested a build for a SC FF monk in the thread linked above. Wound generation isn't a problem; with high resolve, clarity of agony and Mohora wraps for food, the curses expire very quickly, healing you and giving you a wound. You also gain wounds quickly if you use Hylea's Talons.

[mjo2138]

Thank you! Yeah I like the concept behind FF, and I appreciate the examples on how to generate wounds and overcome the penalty. Now I have to decide between a FF or a Helwalker! What do you think of the other subclasses?

[Boeroer]

To be fair: it's really hard to screw up a Monk build.

While most classes have some pitfalls (or let's say ditches) the Monk's stuff is nearly 100% great. Okay, you can make inferior choices if you want, but they are very obvious (like having no engagement and then picking Parting Sorrow or having low deflection and picking Imagined Pain or using a ranged weapon and picking melee-only stuff). 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Boeroer

[dgray62]

Vanilla monk is great too. I don't like Shattered Pillar since this class was nerfed; the 5 wound cap is pretty severe, and it makes turning wheel and iron wheel worthless. Nalpazca is great if you don't mind hoarding and using drugs; they get great benefit from them, and have the fastest wound generation when high. But they take much more micromanagement, and their big weakness is the wizard spell arcane dampener, which sends you into an instant drug crash, which is very dangerous since you can't heal at all while in this state. Personally, I prefer FF for their amazing level one ability, which coupled with high res makes you a tank who can dish out serious DPS as well. Helwalker is ideal, IMO, for dual mortar ranged builds as well as multiclassing with casters.

[mjo2138]

Great tips! Yeah I think I overanalyze too much before I start character builds. Recently, I had a goldpact/wizard and I just couldnt decide how to play it. Was it a tanky caster? Was a it a paladin?  

The Helwalker sounds better suited for mortar/range or a multiclass. Battles can be punishing on POTD, so I am not sure I want to be more of a class cannon. 

It sounds like all the monk choices are solid. For Nalzpaca, I wonder if you can set up an AI command to auto take drugs; if not, I would grow weary of the constant microing. 

 

 

 

[Boeroer]

3 hours ago, dgray62 said:

Vanilla monk is great too. I don't like Shattered Pillar since this class was nerfed; the 5 wound cap is pretty severe, and it makes turning wheel and iron wheel worthless. Nalpazca is great if you don't mind hoarding and using drugs; they get great benefit from them, and have the fastest wound generation when high. But they take much more micromanagement, and their big weakness is the wizard spell arcane dampener, which sends you into an instant drug crash, which is very dangerous since you can't heal at all while in this state. Personally, I prefer FF for their amazing level one ability, which coupled with high res makes you a tank who can dish out serious DPS as well. Helwalker is ideal, IMO, for dual mortar ranged builds as well as multiclassing with casters.

I don't like the words "worthless" and "useless" since it's often used so hyperbolically.

Of course the lower wound cap is suboptimal and this shows when using Turning Wheel/Iron Wheel. Also the Shattered Pillar first had that cap and then it even got hit with the "only autoattacks generate wounds". That would have been a good time to remove the lowered wound cap.

But since it's easier to raise your damage output than it is to raise the amount of damage you receive (in a somewhat controlled way) the higher-level SP gains wounds faster if you know what you are doing. You will never get past 5 wounds - but you will reach that limit a lot faster than the average monk who needs to collect wounds via received damage - at least in non-boss encounters (here the SP has the same issues as a vanilla cipher, soulblade or ascendant). On non-PotD playthroughs with Swift Flurry it can be pretty ridiculous because the additional attacks count as normal attacks even if triggered off of ability attacks (you can even combine with Nomad's Brigandine, Offensive Parry or Riposte - both generate wounds as well. Offensive Parry + Imagined Pain + Nomand's Brigandine is awesome on a Shattered Pillar: tons of wounds if you trigger disengagment attacks). And you're not putting yourself in danger in the process. Your average wound count over the course of an encounter might not be that much lower.

Still I would have liked it that the cap was raised back to 10 - like the Community Patch does. I don't think it makes stuff useless but it surely hurts (a bit too much for my taste).
 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Boeroer

[dgray62]

I'm not sure about setting up an AI command to autotake drugs; in fact, when you try to take a drug or potion in battle, it seems that you have to turn off the AI, as the AI constantly interferes with the potion/drug taking animation. What I would usually when playing Nalzpaca is take a drug before entering into a series of battles (say, all of the battles in a single area) and then try to rush through the battles before it expired. If it did expire, or in ship battles, I'd take the drug in battle, but I hated doing this because of the clunkiness of using drugs and potions in battle, necessitating shutting off the AI to do so. Usually I'd get lazy and rest and then not take any drugs, but then Nalzpaca is worse than vanilla monk due to the wound degeneration. In my experience, it's only good if you're really into micromanagement.

[Boeroer]

Yes, taking drugs/potions with AI is pretty horrible. Or was - didn't try for some time now.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Boeroer

[dgray62]

1 minute ago, Boeroer said:

I don't like the words "worthless" and "useless" since it's often used so hyperbolically.

Of course the lower wound cap is suboptimal and this shows when using Turning Wheel/Iron Wheel. Also the Shattered Pillar first had that cap and then it even got hit with the "only autoattacks generate wounds". That would have been a good time to remove the lowered wound cap.

But since it's easier to raise your damage output than it is to raise the amount of damage you receive (in a somewhat controlled way) the higher-level SP gains wounds faster if you know what you are doing. You will never get past 5 wounds - but you will reach that limit a lot faster than the average monk who needs to collect wounds via received damage - at least in non-boss encounters (here the SP has the same issues as a vanilla cipher, soulblade or ascendant). On non-PotD playthroughs with Swift Flurry it can be pretty ridiculous because the additional attacks count as normal attacks even if triggered off of ability attacks (you can even combine with Offensive Parrty or Riposte - both generate wounds as well). And you're not putting yourself in danger in the process. Your average wound count over the course of an encounter might not be that much lower.

Still I would have liked it that the cap was raised back to 10 - like the Community Patch does. I don't think it makes stuff useless but it surely hurts (a bit too much for my taste).
 

I agree with you completely, Boeroer. I should try to avoid such hyperbolic language. I agree that the class really needs the cap raised back to 10.

[mjo2138]

18 hours ago, dgray62 said:

I'm not sure about setting up an AI command to autotake drugs; in fact, when you try to take a drug or potion in battle, it seems that you have to turn off the AI, as the AI constantly interferes with the potion/drug taking animation. What I would usually when playing Nalzpaca is take a drug before entering into a series of battles (say, all of the battles in a single area) and then try to rush through the battles before it expired. If it did expire, or in ship battles, I'd take the drug in battle, but I hated doing this because of the clunkiness of using drugs and potions in battle, necessitating shutting off the AI to do so. Usually I'd get lazy and rest and then not take any drugs, but then Nalzpaca is worse than vanilla monk due to the wound degeneration. In my experience, it's only good if you're really into micromanagement.

 

18 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Yes, taking drugs/potions with AI is pretty horrible. Or was - didn't try for some time now.

Great to know. Yeah I wish the AI would let you take potions or drugs without having to turn off AI and micro so much.... that makes Nalzpaca seem very unappealing. Lost Sinner (Sin tee), a guy who posts great builds, like the subclass, but I personally dont want to micro that much. Ive read that the community patch for deadfire changes the Shattered Pillars's penalty of max wounds from 5 to 10. If anyone has a link to the thread with the community patch, I'd greatly appreciate it!

I think the challenge with FF subclass will be finding a quick, efficient way to generate wounds by applying debuffs. Hyena's talon seem's designed to help FF class. I have also read that you can apply tanglefoot or other simple debuffs to provide wounds.  I love enfeeble, and I was sad to see that few classes have that skill! I was happy to find out that FF has enfeeble. It would be a great debuff for a lot of the boss fights in the game. 

 

 

 

[dgray62]

I think that Nalzpaca is a great subclass, but you really have to have to be into micro to enjoy it. The Community Patch is available on Nexus Mods.

Regarding FF, enfeeble really is an amazing affliction. Once you land it, tough foes melt quickly, particularly if you have DOTs to apply to them; having spell casters in your party is great for this reason. If you have a druid, for example, they can hobble with tanglefoot (which will only affect you for a second or two, giving you a wound) and then melt the enfeebled foe with spells like insect swarm. In my experience, wound generation is slow in the early game, say, levels 1-4 or so, but once you get Clarity of Agony (which is essential for a FF) and Hylea's Talons you'll have plenty of wounds. FF curse and Hylea's Talons create a vicious spiral for enemies, as being enfeebled extends the time that they are afflicted by the unwieldy raw damage DOT.

[mjo2138]

What do you guys suggest for race?

 

It seems that Nature godlike means I always have +1 PL with inspirations, which means huge gains for acc, dmg, and Pen. 

Wood elf seems to be a popular choice for the dex resistnace, but I figure i can easily get that from equipment. 

 

Aumuna seems fun for the +2 might and the might resistance (getting stunned sucks), but it falls into the same category as wood elf

 

[dgray62]

Mepp22 suggested pale elf, for the added fire and cold AR. The reason for this is because you'd be using  Keeper of the Flame with WotW late game, causing fire AOE explosions on each hit. These can hit you as well, and if you're hit they'll also stun you since you'd also be wearing the Stalking Cloak. However, if you use Eder's armor with Veteran's Manuever upgrade, you are immune to the first two reflex attacks that target you. With high enough reflex you can pass through the mayhem unscathed, while flailing, roasting and stunning your foes. For this build, Boots of the Stone are for the times in which you get hit with reflex attacks twice before completing WotW, and pale elf was suggested for added fire AR in these cases as well. Needless to say, the alternate races you suggest would be fine and have their strengths as well. I also really like Mountain dwarf, for the resistance to CON afflictions. This is harder to get from items, and the CON afflictions can be nasty.

[Haplok]

Wound generation on a FF is still not great early game IMO. BUT it does get A LOT better with Parting Sorrow - it activates when you kill an enemy in melee! If single class, I image Imagined Pain would eventually alleviate any wound issues on a tanky FF. 

[mjo2138]

Great advice. Honestly, however, I tend to burn out by the time I finish the mega bosses and 1 of the DLCs. Maybe that is because ive played this game so many times. I think I am in the minority with this feeling. I feel like base game is long enough with great variety and challenging encounters.  Maybe I will try to power through the DLCs again with a monk! 

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, Haplok said:

Wound generation on a FF is still not great early game IMO. BUT it does get A LOT better with Parting Sorrow - it activates when you kill an enemy in melee! If single class, I image Imagined Pain would eventually alleviate any wound issues on a tanky FF. 

Imagined Pain is very good with Nomad's Briganine because all disengagement attacks turn into misses and give you wounds. On top of the misses that will occur anyway.

[Lampros]

On 10/9/2020 at 6:31 PM, Boeroer said:

I don't like the words "worthless" and "useless" since it's often used so hyperbolically.

Of course the lower wound cap is suboptimal and this shows when using Turning Wheel/Iron Wheel. Also the Shattered Pillar first had that cap and then it even got hit with the "only autoattacks generate wounds". That would have been a good time to remove the lowered wound cap.

But since it's easier to raise your damage output than it is to raise the amount of damage you receive (in a somewhat controlled way) the higher-level SP gains wounds faster if you know what you are doing. You will never get past 5 wounds - but you will reach that limit a lot faster than the average monk who needs to collect wounds via received damage - at least in non-boss encounters (here the SP has the same issues as a vanilla cipher, soulblade or ascendant). On non-PotD playthroughs with Swift Flurry it can be pretty ridiculous because the additional attacks count as normal attacks even if triggered off of ability attacks (you can even combine with Nomad's Brigandine, Offensive Parry or Riposte - both generate wounds as well. Offensive Parry + Imagined Pain + Nomand's Brigandine is awesome on a Shattered Pillar: tons of wounds if you trigger disengagment attacks). And you're not putting yourself in danger in the process. Your average wound count over the course of an encounter might not be that much lower.

Still I would have liked it that the cap was raised back to 10 - like the Community Patch does. I don't think it makes stuff useless but it surely hurts (a bit too much for my taste).
 

Isn't a class severely gimped if it can only generate class resource through auto-attacks though?

[Boeroer]

Depends on the threshold and how much abilities cost. You can't compare it to Cipher because Cipher powers cost at least ten times more focus than Monk abilities cost wounds. Keep in mind that most of the Monk stuff only costs 1 or 2 wounds while the Cipher stuff starts with 10 focus and even raises per Power Level.

The old Shattered Pillar generated wounds with all melee damage (ability use included) and that had to be nerfed because it was way too good. But after the auto-attack nerf they should have raised the cap back to 10. The Community Patch "fixes" that - besides my icons another reason why it's totally inexcusable that you didn't already install it.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Boeroer

[mjo2138]

I installed the community patch. I followed the instructions on the website, but I cannot tell if it is working yet.

 

As for monks, I am trying out FF, but I might go for something more generic on my first monk playthrough. I think a good party could buff a Helwalker to mitigate the +dmg penalty.  otherwise, Nalzpaca is looking good. So many choices! I could also just go vanilla monk..

[dgray62]

In my first time completing the game, my MC was a SC Helwalker monk in a party, who was strong from the beginning and godlike at the end. You have to be careful about wounds, but you can manage this easily. In a party with some good healers and buffers this is no problem, although it might be a challenge solo. But I love the FF ability; if I were to retry a SC monk MC, it would be FF. Vanilla monk is great too, and is sturdier. Nalzpaca is also fun, although it requires more micro and care when battling mages.