So who are the writers of Avowed?

[Adridactelo]

Two new hires:

Sam Khong - Animation Programmer.
David Rose - Senior Combat Designer. He previously worked 5 years at Bungie so I don't know if he will join the Avowed team or TOW 2 one.

[Theonlygarby]

Anyone read Lucien soulbans books?  His name is extremely bad ass it must be fake.  I'm unaware of his previous work though...  As lead narrative I'd be interested in what his writing is like.

[ComradeYellow]

On 7/24/2020 at 12:02 PM, Adridactelo said:

Josh Sawyer - Not involved.

Well that's a relief!

[Anthonyrex]

On 8/20/2020 at 11:49 AM, Flouride said:

I believe he started his own studio.

No ****! Did they release anything yet? Def one to keep an eye on.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Anthonyrex said:

No ****! Did they release anything yet? Def one to keep an eye on.

Nothing yet. Surprisingly, it looks like Kevin Saunders (former Obsidian alum) is also part of the studio.

[Adridactelo]

Two new hires:

Chad Elliott comes back as Art Outsource Manager - Animation. Previusly worked as Technical Animator at Turtle Rock.

Christopher Daugherty as Associate Technical Artist. Worked on Halo Infinite as Technical Environment Artist.

Seems like Obsidian has spent the last few months strengthening their animation team:

• Jason Diaz - Animation Director.
• Joseph L. Rubino - Cinematic Director.
• Chad Elliott - Art Outsource Manager - Animation.
• Derek Zivolich - Character Animator.
• Sam Khong - Animation Programmer.

 

[Theonlygarby]

On 9/3/2020 at 3:02 PM, ComradeMaster said:

Well that's a relief!

I'm curious why some people dislike Sawyer?  I think He is a bit combative with fans occasionally but I doubt that's the only reason.

[MrAbidDin]

On 9/17/2020 at 5:08 PM, Theonlygarby said:

I'm curious why some people dislike Sawyer?  I think He is a bit combative with fans occasionally but I doubt that's the only reason.

Whenever people are angry, they go after the public face/s of the game or company. Same thing happened to Todd Howard. Fallout 76 happens; Todd the god becomes the spawn of Satan. 

[Flouride]

Nicole Evanich - 3D Character Animator

[Tencatta]

On 9/17/2020 at 4:08 PM, Theonlygarby said:

I'm curious why some people dislike Sawyer?  I think He is a bit combative with fans occasionally but I doubt that's the only reason.

I don't think anyone dislikes Sawyer.

For me, him not being on Avowed was actually a big negative because there isn't any positive reason why he wouldn't be. I know he's been pretty down on Obsidian management since 2018, so maybe he just got burned out - and also with one of the Obsidian executives in charge, he probably wouldn't be able to make an impact on the game.

[Tencatta]

On 7/24/2020 at 12:16 PM, Achilles said:

Too much to hope that Fenstermaker comes out of retirement for this?

If he just writes companions, yes, but I wouldn't want him writing the plot after Pillars 1.

Also, feel free to hate on this, but I thought a lot of the companions in Pillars 2 got worse even when the same writers were present, and Eder was no exception. Still, I'd trust Eric more than some of the other writers.

[Theonlygarby]

On 10/23/2020 at 3:32 PM, Tencatta said:

If he just writes companions, yes, but I wouldn't want him writing the plot after Pillars 1.

Also, feel free to hate on this, but I thought a lot of the companions in Pillars 2 got worse even when the same writers were present, and Eder was no exception. Still, I'd trust Eric more than some of the other writers.

What games are better writing wise?  I'm not even trying to argue I just want to play these games.

[Wormerine]

Nevermind. 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Wormerine

[Theonlygarby]

1 hour ago, Wormerine said:

Nevermind. 

Aw but I wanna know why you quoted me

 

was it mean?  I hope it was mean

[Wormerine]

10 hours ago, Theonlygarby said:

was it mean?  I hope it was mean

Nope. Just misunderstood your post and have written at length about strength and weaknesses of PoE1&2 writing/storytelling. 

[Theonlygarby]

9 hours ago, Wormerine said:

Nope. Just misunderstood your post and have written at length about strength and weaknesses of PoE1&2 writing/storytelling. 

Yeah it's not perfect but I can't think of many games that are way better.  I find it odd when people say something is bad but can't give examples of what is good.  Also I'm desperately looking for well written games.

[Wormerine]

3 hours ago, Theonlygarby said:

Also I'm desperately looking for well written games.

Did you try Disco Elysium? I thought the first half of it was excellent. Unfortunately, I was disappointed with the 2nd half. Shame, it felt like it actually be Planescape 2.0. 

[Tencatta]

 

21 hours ago, Wormerine said:

Nope. Just misunderstood your post and have written at length about strength and weaknesses of PoE1&2 writing/storytelling. 

 

I'd love links to this. The story in 1 was "meh" but 2 felt worse overall.

[Theonlygarby]

On 10/28/2020 at 3:37 PM, Wormerine said:

Did you try Disco Elysium? I thought the first half of it was excellent. Unfortunately, I was disappointed with the 2nd half. Shame, it felt like it actually be Planescape 2.0. 

I have it and have been meaning to play.  I think the only thing that has held me back is no combat and also I'm really bad for restarting because I didn't meet some speech check... And that game is all dice rolls... I know it's a game where failing can be more interesting than succeeding but it still bothers me

 

i really should play it though

[Wormerine]

12 hours ago, Theonlygarby said:

I think the only thing that has held me back is no combat and also I'm really bad for restarting because I didn't meet some speech check...

Trying to pass every speech/skill check in DE is like trying to succeed in every attack roll in other RPG. 

[Wormerine]

On 10/29/2020 at 7:14 AM, Tencatta said:

I'd love links to this.

alright! Here we go again.

First of all, I think writing is a rather wide term. I think that writing as such (words written by writers) are great in both games, but storytelling and characters have issues in both games - not necessarily because of “bad writing”

PoE1 - I think big picture stuff is one of the best ones I ever seen - overall story, consistent themes, how companions tie, reflect and amplify overarching narrative. That’s Planescape quality. World is well thought out, and well realised. 

Where I think PoE1 suffers is lack of polish - I think the came could benefit from another editing pass or two. Even more then that, PoE1 quests are fairly simple in design. Quests are rather straightforward. As the result, interesting concepts are told, rather then explored via interactive means. A good example would be Maerwald, who has a great story, which is dumped on a player via an explosion, rather then, for example, and engaging dungeon or quest. It’s still effective, not really something one wants in an Game. Another side of this problem is that I think one needs to dig deep into game’s lore books to gain necessary context. 

add to that, that simply moment-to-moment storytelling isn’t always riveting. I find the game to drag every time I reach Defiance Bay. I also think that some crucial elements (like gods) are introduced properly far too late into the narrative.

overall, PoE1 didn’t click for me until very final dungeon - at this point companion arch’s started to make sense, all events before made starting sense. While I found PoE1 very rewarding at that point, getting there for the first time wasn’t always exciting. It’s definitely a game that I enjoyed more in my 2nd playthrough. 

PoE2 is better in all ways PoE1 was weak - quests are more elaborate, writing more snappy, characters better characterised from up front, rather then have you reading PoE1 effortlessly explores its world and sociopolitical situation through interesting quests. I thought Deadfire as a setting was brilliant and it was well explored. What it lacks is proper development and pay-off though. 
PoE2 is very open, and unfortunately the way Obsidian handled it was by making individual area have little continuity between each other. Pretty much each area is a short self contained adventure. Each one of them is good on its own and they work together thematically - through them we learn of different things about the factions, our companions, or gods, but as they can be done in any order one wishes, they don’t develop the story or characters. This lack of change and forward momentum is, I think, PoE2 biggest issue.

Companions I just don’t like - the reputation system is a mess, and non-linear content makes it difficult to properly present and explore companions. PoE2 relies far more on contextual conversations (companion joining conversations as you talk) rather then pre-written, private conversation trees - while it is a good thing: that way companions feel present and part of the party, with game being so non linear it makes it impossible to craft a coherent arc. Companions have great moments but it is mostly focused in short finale, where they can finally develop. Oh, I am also not a fun of “jokes”. While PoE1 was hitting the same tone a bit too often, PoE2 humour comes down to out of place sex jokes. Not a fan. 

on a side note - I am very disappointed with returning companions. PoE1 allowed us to nudge our companions into various, life altering directions. I understand that it is unreasonable to expect Obs to properly explore submissive/hero/exiled Pallegina, but I though bringing companions out and flattening them down was worse then not bringing them back at all. This also applies to PC - I don’t think Deadfire continues the story of Watcher well - there are few things that define our character (discovering the truth, being the a watcher) and I feel PoE2 mostly ignores those, giving us new overriding identity - Berath’s Herald. I really think that PoE2 would be stronger with a new protagonist, more involved in Deadfire’s conflict. Or PoE2 should use our watcher better - for example if opening castle assault happened precisely because who we were. As such Deadfire has most likely little importance to our character, and our motivation feels forced and artificial. 
Which brings us to finale - this short and abrupt ending simply isn’t enough to deliver a pay off. Confronting Eothas brings more questions and is another set up for future. Political conflict, while it gets resolved, we players, don’t really get to see it. It lacks both narrative and gameplay pay off (with final boss being random mech dragon, assume we even get to fight it). Rather then nicely wrapping up our adventure, it sets up potential PoE3, which is rather unsatisfying. 

I think in both games the best PoE has to offer can be found in DLCs. White March is still my favourite PoE content - with great low and high level adventures, well realised village, great atmosphere and great story progression balancing spectacle and player choice really nicely. And PoE2 DLCs show how much it can be gained with little linear structure. I remember people saying how better written BoW is - which I don’t believe it to be true - it’s just linear nature of it allows for set up, development and pay off which the main game lacked so very much. 

[Tencatta]

Thanks for the link, Womerine! Some choice bits I agree with: 

- The exposition vs. interactive story and world reveal information (you summed it up nicely). Got tired of exposition dumps.

- The new companions were pretty... meh.

- And what was worse that you pointed out is the returning companions. For me, they didn't feel like the POE1 companions, and while I don't think they did, they still feel "phoned in," I guess.

Thanks for linking me to your review, thought it was great.

 

[EveryThorn]

On 9/17/2020 at 4:54 AM, Adridactelo said:

Two new hires:

Chad Elliott comes back as Art Outsource Manager - Animation. Previusly worked as Technical Animator at Turtle Rock.

Christopher Daugherty as Associate Technical Artist. Worked on Halo Infinite as Technical Environment Artist.

Seems like Obsidian has spent the last few months strengthening their animation team:

• Jason Diaz - Animation Director.
• Joseph L. Rubino - Cinematic Director.
• Chad Elliott - Art Outsource Manager - Animation.
• Derek Zivolich - Character Animator.
• Sam Khong - Animation Programmer.

 

After Outer Worlds, I think they needed to, especially if they're trying to compete in Next Gen space.

[Ordo!]

So, with the announcement of TOWII we now know that Megan Starks, Nitai Poddar and maybe Kelsey Beachum are working on this game.

Here is my question, does Obsidian has enough writers for Avowed ? I mean, it will probably be bigger than POEII and it seems to have less writers, especially with the departure of Lucien Soulban.

Maybe they have narrative designers that i don't know.

[Wormerine]

1 hour ago, Ordo! said:

So, with the announcement of TOWII we now know that Megan Starks, Nitai Poddar and maybe Kelsey Beachum are working on this game.

Bigger game doesn't necessarily mean more writing. We still don't know at this point what kind of the game Avowed is. It is also difficult to say how much of game's production consists of writing.