Ninja Build Ideas?

[Rimiu]

Hello I was recently playing @thelee's build . It's super fun and I recommend everyone giving it a try. While playing it though I noticed that I really wanted to play something more ninja themed if that's even possible. Akin to FFXIV's Ninja. Meaning Being a rogue + Debuff and offensive Magic.

I wanted to know if there's a strong combo that's PotD viable and doesn't make use of the the lance. I was Thinking about dual wielding melee ofc and either dagger or sabre.

The most obvious that came to mind was Trickster + (Blood?) Mage but I can't really see any synergy and I wonder if action economy makes it not synergize well.

So maybe instead of slinging spells nonstop in melee I would rather have a few big hitter spells and some enhancement buffs.

Maybe some other class combo entirely? Or would be single class trickster the most logical pick? I'm not sure if guile will last me long enough though.

 

Thanks for reading.

[Haplok]

To me ninja cries stealth. And assasination. Therefore Assassin would be a strong pick with its Assasinate special. Can Backstab, yes... but... you can't do it very often and even the most powerful single blow is worth less then killing a bunch of enemies in one go. IMO a better use of his abilities is casting impactful spells from stealth with the Assassinate bonus (it works on everything).

OR, if you're open to a different approach, maybe an Assassin / Black Jacket switching between weapons with limited use special abilities, including aoe abilities like Kitchen Stove Thuderous Report, but also single target like Whispers of the Endless Paths Run Trough and Modwyr Bottoms Up for each of his stealthy strikes with the Assassinate bonus.

[Rimiu]

8 minutes ago, Haplok said:

To me ninja cries stealth. And assasination. Therefore Assassin would be a strong pick with its Assasinate special. Can Backstab, yes... but... you can't do it very often and even the most powerful single blow is worth less then killing a bunch of enemies in one go. IMO a better use of his abilities is casting impactful spells from stealth with the Assassinate bonus (it works on everything).

OR, if you're open to a different approach, maybe an Assassin / Black Jacket switching between weapons with limited use special abilities, including aoe abilities like Kitchen Stove Thuderous Report, but also single target like Whispers of the Endless Paths Run Trough and Modwyr Bottoms Up for each of his stealthy strikes with the Assassinate bonus.

Oh Haplok! I remember you from Pathfinder threads on reddit. Nice to you see again. I remember asking you about one of your builds as well.

I haven't thought of the stealth nuke approach very interesting thank you for that. I'm not too keen on weapons witching to be honest but the assassin approach sounds fun. Any specific Synergy that comes to mind or just spell slinging from stealth and restealth?

Edited June 26, 2020 by Rimiu

[Madscientist]

Assassin/mage is a good idea.

Assassins get a bonus to penetration, acc and crit damage when attacking from stealth. It is only the first hit that gets this bonus. So you can do tons of damage by starting combat with a spell from stealth. It should hit several enemies at once or one enemy really hard. No spells with bouncing or several projectiles because only the first hit gets the bonus.

Blood mage is probably a bad idea because assassins take more damage and blood mages have lower defenses and can take self damage. Probably its best to use a default mage, the other subclasses lose so many spells.

[Kaylon]

Bloodmage/assassin is very strong because at high level you can have unlimited invisibility. Losing health to restore your invisibility spell isn't a big problem because you can use infinite vampiric touch to backstab and heal back (on top of regen/heal on kill items you can have). But until then you can play like a regular assassin/mage. 

[Haplok]

Hi Rimiu

IMO Bloodmage is a good pick. He looses out on Empower, which can be very potent, game changing even - but once per fight and several times per rest only. Granted he also looses access to the ability to spend this Empower to renew half of Assassin Guile resources - therefore more stealthiness. However a Bloodmage has access, in practice unlimited,  to best spells to deal with each situation and that is invaluable. Also at low spell levels can stack all meaningful buffs AND STILL be able to use other spells from these levels  - repeatedly so -> particularly in early game (which is the most difficult part), this is game-changing.

And Corrosive Siphon is an awesome low level health drain, so healing really isn't a huge concern for a Blood Mage when there are several enemies to affect them with.

 

Good synergies... well, first of all, Arkemyr's Dazzling Lights spell from level 1 is very nice for such a character. Cast it from stealth near the enemies to attract their attention and cluster together in a tight group waiting for aoe bombardment - but watch out not to hit any enemies with the Lights, or combat will start and you will be revealed!

Then certainly try to get Ninagauth's Teachings grimoire - its unique level 4 spell, Ninagauth's Shadowflame, is perfect as an opener after Dazzling Lights. Not only does it similar damage to a fireball (actually a bit higher) but cold-based, BUT ALSO Paralyzes enemies on hit. With the Assassinate +25 Accuracy bonus, this usually hits! So now you start combat with all/most enemies in a tight cluster and unable to move or act... AND subject to an additional 25% Hit-to-Crit conversion.

Also in Turn Based mode Ninagauth's Death Ray, another exclusive from this grimoire is very good for such a build, as it ticks 3 times, deals high unresistable damage in a line aoe, if enemies don't have you in their sight cones, you actually remain stealthed after the first hit for a second Assassinate tick! Nice to have someone with Morningstar modal to lower enemy Fortitude, though. Significantly worse in real time, as it has 11 far weaker ticks (1 per second), most of which wouldn't benefit from Assassinate. Still might be useful to crack enemies with extreme Armor Rating due to unresistable Raw damage type.

Next Deltro's Cage helm. You need to either steal it or kill an influential figure for it. It's a MAJOR force multiplier for such a build. When hit with lightning, it stores its energy and for a short time provides a % damage lash equal to the number of hit points you lost when lightning struck you. Meaning if you target your stealthy Assassinate Chain Lightning on YOURSELF and manage a 150 damage critical (doable... usually when you're low on HP... or when doublecast from Vithrack Slippers triggers :P), your attack, including spells, will now do 250% of their original damage! Sometimes its only 30-40 damage / % lash (on Graze), often ~60-80 / % lash (on Hit). But if you stack Critical chance (and avoid raising Reflex defenses), 110-140 Assassinate crits / % lash are also fairly common. What's interesting that the follow-up bounces of this initial Chain Lightning (which strike the enemy now), will already also carry this % lash....

Before Chain Lightning you can use the early Shocking Grasp for a much weaker, but still quite noticeable lash.

For longer fights you'll be able to extend this (and other helpful) effects indefinitely with Wall of Draining.

Would be nice to use Devil of Caroc's Breastplate, as for a large part of the game it will allow +1 use of stealth (trough Shadowing Beyond) per encounter. And that's valuable. So make sure you import/configure a background history that accommodates its availability. There are other ways to become invisible (including a unique spell from some exclusive grimoires), but they usually involve a Recovery period, so are not as nice to act fast and furious. Could be great for solo-play, though. Assassin Slippers can be nice 1/combat, but in Turn Based mode at least, their effect often went to waste.

Be a Human with Fighting Spirit and maxed Con. As a Bloodmage you can self-sacrifice to ensure you're always under 50% hitpoints and Fighting Spirit is permanently active (and the bonus is real good: +7 Accuracy, +15% damage).  I also like high Per for Accuracy and Int for aoe sizes and effect durations. However in real time Dex shouldn't be neglected either. Might can be left around base (it also increases the damage you self-inflict), while Res dumped.

Other great spells include Ninagauth's Freezing Pillar (almost impossible to use while remaining stealthy due to loudness, but still offers very high damage over time) and Minoletta's Piercing Burst - I was using this 80% of the time after I got it (15% probably went to Death Ray for unresistable damage and 3 ticks) - high damage, party friendly aoe, high Penetration.

Before that the Blightheart arquebus is nice for its 10% corrosive lash that applies to spells.

Of course, stack Critical damage and chance as much as possible: Dirty Fighting 10%, Ring of Prosperity's Fortune up to 15%, Merciless Gaze 15% Uncanny Luck 5% (or 10% with Community Patch - its maybe not worth it without this mod), The Third Eye 10%.

After early game, try to always use Crusted Swordfish food when resting, it will help a lot. It can be crafted or bought in Periki's Overlook in Neketaka.

Crowd Control spells can also work very well with the Assassinate bonus (+25 Accuracy!). But since it's such a limited commodity, I used homicide as the ultimate form of CC.

Oh and don't worry about seemingly short duration on some spells, (particularly buffs like Merciless Gaze). With Power Level bonuses and Int stacking they will have a very respectable duration before long. Note that Ray spells and Walls have a fixed duration, though.

Kinda late game, but I enjoyed using Engoliero de Espirs estoc with this build. It triggers its Ghost Blades cone aoe attack on kill - regardless of kill method. These get boosted by the various Assassin bonuses and ranged bonuses (sneak attacks, Deathblows, pet with +10% damage to ranged attacks and other) and can be enchanted to return as much health as they deal damage. This can lead to nasty kill cascades on damaged afflicted enemies and a lot of healing for you.

Something like this can happen:

 

Or this:

Guess its easier to set up in turn based, though.

Before that the Blightheart arquebus is nice for its 10% corrosive lash that applies to spells.

Of course, stack Critical damage and chance as much as possible: Dirty Fighting 10%, Ring of Prosperity's Fortune up to 15%, Merciless Gaze 15% Uncanny Luck 5% (or 10% with Community Patch - its maybe not worth it without this mod), The Third Eye 10%.

After early game, try to always use Crusted Swordfish food when resting, it will help a lot. It can be crafted or bought in Periki's Overlook in Neketaka.

 

Crowd Control spells can also work very well with the Assassinate bonus (+25 Accuracy!). But since it's such a limited commodity, I used homicide as the ultimate form of CC.

Oh and don't worry about seemingly short duration on some spells, (particularly buffs like Merciless Gaze). With Power Level bonuses and Int stacking they will have a very respectable duration before long. Note that Ray spells and Walls have a fixed duration, though.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Haplok

[Rimiu]

1 hour ago, Haplok said:

...

 

Can I like a post more than once? Wow what an awesome lengthy post. Thank you so much. I will save it to my files. Thank you so much.

 

Edit: Still speechless, I feel like nothing I write will do your post justice. I appreciate it a lot.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Rimiu

[Haplok]

My pleasure

 

Another word on combos: If you're like me and like big damage numbers, there are 2 more party synergies to significantly raise them.

1. Ranger with a pet Takedown Combo: After landing this the next attack roll (ONLY!) vs affected enemy will deal +100% damage. Good for extreme hits with extreme lashes, however the limitation to next attack IS pretty restrictive and not always easy to take advantage of. Particularly if you (or other characters in your party) also use pulsing spells.

2. Paladin blinding enemies trough Inspired Beacon: This is a much smaller bonus, 40%, BUT it lasts several seconds so its much easier to exploit - and other party members can benefit from it as well during the effect duration.

With those you can manage hits like these:

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by Haplok

[thelee]

4 hours ago, Haplok said:

Kinda late game, but I enjoyed using Engoliero de Espirs estoc with this build. It triggers its Ghost Blades cone aoe attack on kill - regardless of kill method. These get boosted by the various Assassin bonuses and ranged bonuses (sneak attacks, Deathblows, pet with +10% damage to ranged attacks and other) and can be enchanted to return as much health as they deal damage. This can lead to nasty kill cascades on damaged afflicted enemies and a lot of healing for you.

nice! i need to try this