Weapons that are under utilized

[coralzombie]

What weapon types are under utilized by the players and why?

[Waski]

Crossbows. Only two of them, one is  reward  from Furrante, other isn't available till FS.

[Boeroer]

Crossbows indeed. Due to the the lack of them.

I also think Arbalests don't get much love - although they are pretty cool in general and have nice unique. Well one nice unique anyway. I guess most players still don't fathom the power of interrupts (on highest difficulties). That being said: Arquebus is kind of the competitor to Arbalest - and there are so many ones (and the+29 ACC modal is also great) that it is kind of hard to pick an Arbalest over them. Especially if you are a Rogue or Ranger who can interrupt with abilities anyway.

Pikes are also underused I think. Lance of the Midwood Stag is good but very... special - and Ngati's Tusk comes so late. Well if you count Spirit Lance in then maybe they are not underused at all.

Most implements (Wand, Scepter, Rod) don't seem to get much love since Aloth's was nerfed (why???). Watershaper's Focus is great (really good - even after the nerf of Ondra's Wave) - but they still don't seem to appeal to that many players. 

Small Shields (besides Tuotilo's Palm) I almost never see used. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Boeroer

[Elric Galad]

18 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Crossbows indeed. Due to the the lack of them.

Pikes are also underused I think. Lance of the Midwood Stag is good but very... special - and Ngati's Tusk comes so late. Well if you count Spirit Lance in then maybe they are not underused at all.

Ngati's Tusk is a really cool weapon for party support. Unless you play devoted, you don't have to specialize toward Pikes from the start to be able to use them.

Does Lance of the Midwood Stag PL Bonus Stacks with other PL Bonus ? Sounds like a very strong if it does. Does it work with Pollen Patch ?

[Boeroer]

Yes, it does stack with everything because it's coming from a weapon.

Yes, it does work with Pollen Patch. However, Spine of Thicket Green would be even better for that.

For a Druid it's easy to unlock Lord of the Forest because Form of the Delemgan and Woodskin will both trigger it. Form of the Delemgan lasts a really long time. For me Lance of the Midwood Stag is the only good option when going for a dedicated Decay Druid. But then it doesn't really fit thematically. Oh well...

But still: I almost never see people talk about pikes here. I mean except Spirit Lance.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Boeroer

[Haplok]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

Yes, it does stack with everything because it's coming from a weapon.

Yes, it does work with Pollen Patch. However, Spine of Thicket Green would be even better for that.

For a Druid it's easy to unlock Lord of the Forest because Form of the Delemgan and Woodskin will both trigger it. Form of the Delemgan last a really long time. For me Lance of the Midwood Stag is the only good option when going for a dedicated Decay Druid. But then it doesn't really fit thematically. Oh well...

That sounds like a really nice weapon for my Sorcerer Fassina. Never even considered that upgrade or thought about that interaction. Thanks!

Edited April 20, 2020 by Haplok

[Elric Galad]

27 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Yes, it does stack with everything because it's coming from a weapon.

Thx !

27 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Yes, it does work with Pollen Patch. However, Spine of Thicket Green would be even better for that.

This is not what I meant. I wondered if Pollen Patch effect ([Plant]) from another team member or yourself is active, does it activate +2 ALL PL from the Lance ?
Anyway, you a druid in your paty is enough.

+2 All PL can have so many uses...

[coralzombie]

2 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Crossbows indeed. Due to the the lack of them.

I also think Arbalests don't get much love - although they are pretty cool in general and have nice unique. Well one nice unique anyway. I guess most players still don't fathom the power of interrupts (on highest difficulties). That being said: Arquebus is kind of the competitor to Arbalest - and there are so many ones (and the+29 ACC modal is also great) that it is kind of hard to pick an Arbalest over them. Especially if you are a Rogue or Ranger who can interrupt with abilities anyway.

Pikes are also underused I think. Lance of the Midwood Stag is good but very... special - and Ngati's Tusk comes so late. Well if you count Spirit Lance in then maybe they are not underused at all.

Most implements (Wand, Scepter, Rod) don't seem to get much love since Aloth's was nerfed (why???). Watershaper's Focus is great (really good - even after the nerf of Ondra's Wave) - but they still don't seem to appeal to that many players. 

Small Shields (besides Tuotilo's Palm) I almost never see used. 

Scepters- Probably has to do with the modal - self damage is not appealing considering thematically they lend themselves to casters and there are better options.

Small shields- With that modal perhaps a small shield favoring riposte should have been added,

 

[Haplok]

Well, currently my Eder is using... well... Tuotilo's Palm, obviously. Plus Rust's/Kapana/Stargrazer/Grave Calling, depending on mood and enemy type. The modal is indeed nice for Ripostes. He crits a lot. Of course, in Turn Based an Initiative penalty is much less painful then a Recovery penalty in real-time...

And I like that the light Shield does not debuff his Accuracy. I think it even has it's own riposte property? Haven't seen it get much use.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Haplok

[Elric Galad]

10 minutes ago, coralzombie said:

Scepters- Probably has to do with the modal - self damage is not appealing considering thematically they lend themselves to casters and there are better options.

Small shields- With that modal perhaps a small shield favoring riposte should have been added,

 

As a rule of Thumb, Under-utilized weapons are mostly due to bad Unique ones. Some weapons with meh Modal still get used in spite of that (sabers' modal is meh for example)
Small shields are nice because of no accuracy malus. Weyc's shield is nice when paired with Empowering Equipment such as Sasha's Scimitar or Weyc's wand.

Self-damaging modal is nice for glass cannonish playstyle and synergizes extremely well with Monks.

[coralzombie]

I have created a mod with various weapons, armor, shields, accessories and trinkets. Will be uploading it to nexus shortly if anyone wants to playtest it I will modify things based on feedback.

 

[Boeroer]

1 hour ago, Elric Galad said:

This is not what I meant. I wondered if Pollen Patch effect ([Plant]) from another team member or yourself is active, does it activate +2 ALL PL from the Lance ?

Ah yes, sorry, I misunderstood. Pollen Patch does trigger Lord of the Forest. Everything with the plant keyword does. Even "hostile" effects from enemies or friendly fire will trigger it (like Binding Roots, Tanglefoot, Venombloom, Wicked Briars etc.). I didn't test if a resistance to dexterity affliction (e.g. Wood Elf) + Tanglefoot would still apply the plant keyword that would trigger Lord of the Forest. Maybe not since Tanglefoot's affliction gets canceled by resistance - but may be worth a try.

I didn't necessarily mean that the weapon types I listed are bad - just that I don't see them used a lot (when reading about builds and ideas and stuff). I think it's a problem with underwhelming (or very late) uniques indeed. The weapon types you see mentioned a lot either have very good or very cool uniques and/or come with very early uniques. Arbalest is a bit of an outlier because there's is Spearcaster which is great in my opinion, comes early and has a good modal. But as I said it has to compete with stuff like the Red Hand. I mean... yeah... that's hard.

[thelee]

15 hours ago, coralzombie said:

What weapon types are under utilized by the players and why?

for me: spears, pollaxes, maces, stilettos, rapiers.

spears and pollaxes because when i plan out my parties engagement factors in, and rarely am I ever in a situation where I've planned around using a weapon to give me engagement. spears also get the shaft because weapons that do pierce damage only are uninspiring because pierce immunity feels like the most common.

maces - i think about PEN issues a lot, and while a mace could help a lot by debuffing AR by 1, these days I bring a long a chanter for shield breaks, have expose vulnerabilities, and otherwise am rarely in aistuation where debuffing AR by 1 helps enough characters (at least two, I think) to be worth using over just having the mace wielder use a weapon that grants +2 PEN.

stilettos - just don't really find the unique that inspiring, and by the time i'm strong enough to fight rust for his poignard I can't be bothered. Am making an effort this time around. Also, pierce-only weapon damage is a lame choice for me because of immunities.

rapiers - mostly because of the fact that it's pierce-only.

 

in the past i would also put arbalests and crossbows as under-used weapons, but these days i give basically every member of my party either arbalest or crossbow proficiency as their last proficiency just so that I have an easier time with Hauane O Whe.

[Boeroer]

11 minutes ago, thelee said:

spears and pollaxes because when i plan out my parties engagement factors in, and rarely am I ever in a situation where I've planned around using a weapon to give me engagement. spears also get the shaft because weapons that do pierce damage only are uninspiring because pierce immunity feels like the most common.

Hm, but Stalker's Patience is a really good weapon dmg-wise and there's even a pierce/slash spear as backup. I never use it als well...

12 minutes ago, thelee said:

stilettos - just don't really find the unique that inspiring, and by the time i'm strong enough to fight rust for his poignard I can't be bothered. Am making an effort this time around. Also, pierce-only weapon damage is a lame choice for me because of immunities.

Maybe this video of Kaylon doing some poignard-magic with Gambit can motivate you  :

I can imagine that it's also real nice with a Rogue/Monk or Ranger/Monk and Swift Flurry.
Azure Blade has some quirky enchantment that always applies for me: I seem to get the +15 ACC no matter where my party members are. Pierce only is annoying but I guess you can alwaya keep daggers in the second weapons' slot?

19 minutes ago, thelee said:

maces - i think about PEN issues a lot, and while a mace could help a lot by debuffing AR by 1, these days I bring a long a chanter for shield breaks, have expose vulnerabilities, and otherwise am rarely in aistuation where debuffing AR by 1 helps enough characters (at least two, I think) to be worth using over just having the mace wielder use a weapon that grants +2 PEN.

I also seldomly use maces as well. Almost never. However - Magistrate's Cudgel with a Witch is quite hilarious, not only because stun on crit is great but especially if you meet lower-level kith enemies and have Blood Thirst.  Bardatto's Luxury is a nice tank weapon - but I don't really feel the dire need for its enchantments.

25 minutes ago, thelee said:

rapiers - mostly because of the fact that it's pierce-only.

Right. But stuff like Rännig's Wrath's Insistence + small shield modal + Riposte is just fancy-fency as hell.

[thelee]

17 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Azure Blade has some quirky enchantment that always applies for me: I seem to get the +15 ACC no matter where my party members are.

  maybe should give this a try. i thought azure blade would be pretty fussy, but sounds like maybe not

 

17 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Right. But stuff like Rännig's Wrath's Insistence + small shield modal + Riposte is just fancy-fency as hell.

right - for a lot of weapons i'm sure there's a nice build or a nice way to use it, but it just doesn't tend to frequently overlap with how i like to play, and so the annoyance factor of pierce-only damage becomes more important for me in dissuading me from picking it up.

Edited April 20, 2020 by thelee

[AeonsLegend]

1 hour ago, Boeroer said:

Maybe this video of Kaylon doing some poignard-magic with Gambit can motivate you  :

How is gambit hitting with no cooldown several times in a row at first?

[Waski]

19 minutes ago, AeonsLegend said:

How is gambit hitting with no cooldown several times in a row at first?

First hit Blade Cascade proc.

[Crucis]

2 hours ago, thelee said:

for me: spears, pollaxes, maces, stilettos, rapiers.

spears and pollaxes because when i plan out my parties engagement factors in, and rarely am I ever in a situation where I've planned around using a weapon to give me engagement. spears also get the shaft because weapons that do pierce damage only are uninspiring because pierce immunity feels like the most common.

maces - i think about PEN issues a lot, and while a mace could help a lot by debuffing AR by 1, these days I bring a long a chanter for shield breaks, have expose vulnerabilities, and otherwise am rarely in aistuation where debuffing AR by 1 helps enough characters (at least two, I think) to be worth using over just having the mace wielder use a weapon that grants +2 PEN.

stilettos - just don't really find the unique that inspiring, and by the time i'm strong enough to fight rust for his poignard I can't be bothered. Am making an effort this time around. Also, pierce-only weapon damage is a lame choice for me because of immunities.

rapiers - mostly because of the fact that it's pierce-only.

 

in the past i would also put arbalests and crossbows as under-used weapons, but these days i give basically every member of my party either arbalest or crossbow proficiency as their last proficiency just so that I have an easier time with Hauane O Whe.

Another problem that I have with pierce-only weapons is that if your character is using a pierce-only ranged weapon, the way I see it, the last thing you want for a melee weapon is another pierce only weapon.

 

[Crucis]

17 hours ago, coralzombie said:

What weapon types are under utilized by the players and why?

To me, the primary reason certain weapon types are underutilized is that there just aren't enough of the unique ones in the game.

[coralzombie]

2 hours ago, thelee said:

for me: spears, pollaxes, maces, stilettos, rapiers.

spears and pollaxes because when i plan out my parties engagement factors in, and rarely am I ever in a situation where I've planned around using a weapon to give me engagement. spears also get the shaft because weapons that do pierce damage only are uninspiring because pierce immunity feels like the most common.

maces - i think about PEN issues a lot, and while a mace could help a lot by debuffing AR by 1, these days I bring a long a chanter for shield breaks, have expose vulnerabilities, and otherwise am rarely in aistuation where debuffing AR by 1 helps enough characters (at least two, I think) to be worth using over just having the mace wielder use a weapon that grants +2 PEN.

stilettos - just don't really find the unique that inspiring, and by the time i'm strong enough to fight rust for his poignard I can't be bothered. Am making an effort this time around. Also, pierce-only weapon damage is a lame choice for me because of immunities.

rapiers - mostly because of the fact that it's pierce-only.

 

in the past i would also put arbalests and crossbows as under-used weapons, but these days i give basically every member of my party either arbalest or crossbow proficiency as their last proficiency just so that I have an easier time with Hauane O Whe.

Spears:  I have the basic's written out for a spear:       +1 engagement - Best of slash / pierce dmg  -  5% dmg/ 5% action speed when wielded with a shield.  + some other things

Maces - I thought this over and decided to opt for adding a war hammer first.  It has increased pen by 1.   2/%/hit stacking chance to crit and rather than increase engagement amount it increases engagement radius by 1 which means it is in between a regular melee weapon and a reach weapon.   I will be adding a couple of maces.

Rapier and stilettos need love yes.

 

Going to post a thread where people can request specific weapons but not silly ones. I think some of my weapons might be over powered a slight bit in the first iteration of my mod release and may need to be toned down or adjusted.

 

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, coralzombie said:

Spears:  I have the basic's written out for a spear:       +1 engagement - Best of slash / pierce dmg  -  5% dmg/ 5% action speed when wielded with a shield.  + some other things

Maces - I thought this over and decided to opt for adding a war hammer first.  It has increased pen by 1.   2/%/hit stacking chance to crit and rather than increase engagement amount it increases engagement radius by 1 which means it is in between a regular melee weapon and a reach weapon.   I will be adding a couple of maces.

Rapier and stilettos need love yes.

 

Going to post a thread where people can request specific weapons but not silly ones. I think some of my weapons might be over powered a slight bit in the first iteration of my mod release and may need to be toned down or adjusted.

 

Oh yes I want a Night Club !

[coralzombie]

So like a club that works at better at night and sucks a bit during the day?  With hangover immunity?

Edited April 20, 2020 by coralzombie

[Elric Galad]

56 minutes ago, coralzombie said:

So like a club that works at better at night and sucks a bit during the day?  With hangover immunity?

It comes from here :
https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Night_Club

But I have not been thinking about stats that much.

Also I love club modal but I don't love that much the current Unique Ones, so...

[thelee]

2 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

Also I love club modal but I don't love that much the current Unique Ones, so...

on skaen's challenge it's fun using club modal with simple torches. it's as if the enemy is so baffled i'm whacking (and beating!) them with a torch that their willpower is destroyed.

 

SPEAKING of which, what about a unique torch? even just a magical one? (no, st. drogga's torch doesn't count because it's a saber)

Edited April 20, 2020 by thelee

[Elric Galad]

2 minutes ago, thelee said:

on skaen's challenge it's fun using club modal with simple torches. it's as if the enemy is so baffled i'm whacking (and beating!) them with a torch that their willpower is destroyed.

 

SPEAKING of which, what about a unique torch? even just a magical one? (no, st. drogga's torch doesn't count because it's a saber)

Well, there is already this (even if technically not a torch) :

https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/St._Drogga's_Skull