Vanishing strikes invisibility status

[Aljxndr]

(I already tried to post this, seemingly unsuccesfully, first time on the forum, sorry if I end up spamming or something idk)

So, in the link above one of the developers seems to think that the way vanishing strike works is a bug. I wanted to know if it has been "fixed" or nerfed since.

Basically I want to play a dagger assassin and considering going single class just for that and gambit. Im using the comunity patch backstab tweak, and if vanishing strikes gives you persistent invisibility for a time, then that would make daggers a natural choice since you want to squeeze as many backstabs as you can. 

[Elric Galad]

Ney, it still works as before. Attacking doesn't break invisibility from vanishing strike.

[Kaylon]

22 hours ago, Aljxndr said:

(I already tried to post this, seemingly unsuccesfully, first time on the forum, sorry if I end up spamming or something idk)

So, in the link above one of the developers seems to think that the way vanishing strike works is a bug. I wanted to know if it has been "fixed" or nerfed since.

Basically I want to play a dagger assassin and considering going single class just for that and gambit. Im using the comunity patch backstab tweak, and if vanishing strikes gives you persistent invisibility for a time, then that would make daggers a natural choice since you want to squeeze as many backstabs as you can. 

Using two fast weapons allows doing more attacks but for less damage and in the end the dps will be the same. If you want to optimize your character you should use a fast weapon in your left hand with a normal one in your main hand, while spamming full attacks (Gambit). A great combo is Magran's Favor with modal activated in your MH and Rust's Poignard in the OH.

[Elric Galad]

5 hours ago, Kaylon said:

Using two fast weapons allows doing more attacks but for less damage and in the end the dps will be the same. If you want to optimize your character you should use a fast weapon in your left hand with a normal one in your main hand, while spamming full attacks (Gambit). A great combo is Magran's Favor with modal activated in your MH and Rust's Poignard in the OH.

Nope, OP stated he will use Community Patch, so fast weapons are optimal if no special attack is used. But sure axe + fast weapons full attacks is optimal.

[Elric Galad]

Did someone mentioned Ooblit pet yet ? Thta's the semi-obscure item one should know about when going SC Assassin as Main Character. It provides +3s on all beneficial effect on "bearer" which is especially interesting with Unbending and Vanishing Strike.

[Boeroer]

Also don't forget Mari Crudia as food: it not only gives you +15% duration for all benefical effects but also +2 INT which means another 10%.

You need a lot of INT for Vanishing Strikes. 

Maybe also wear Cabalist's Gambeson (+10%) and Strand of Favor (+1 INT, +10%) together with other +INT items.  More Power Level (Prestige, Stone of Power, potion) also gives more duration.

[Aljxndr]

Thanks everyone! 

[Aljxndr]

19 minutes ago, Boeroer said:

Also don't forget Mari Crudia as food: it not only gives you +15% duration for all benefical effects but also +2 INT which means another 10%.

You need a lot of INT for Vanishing Strikes. 

Maybe also wear Cabalist's Gambeson (+10%) and Strand of Favor (+1 INT, +10%) together with other +INT items.  More Power Level (Prestige, Stone of Power, potion) also gives more duration.

I was planning on using pukestabber, so on terms of food I was counting on being drunk with rum mostly. I pretty much maxed dex since rogue lacks any kind of action speed buff. Perception is at 21 and intellect at 17 (without items). Im kind of regretting not maxing intellect tho.

Simmilarly, if I want speed, I was planning on using a robe or clothes or miscreants leather. I dont know at which point stacking speed becones inferior to stacking duration when it comes to squeezing lots of backstabs. With community patch you get an instant 20 base raw damage per hit that scales with power level, so much more than that when I get vanishing strikes.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Aljxndr
Added more context

[Boeroer]

Also wear boots of speed. Moving to targets eats up lot of duration, too. You don't want to spend precious Guile on Escape too often.

Miscreants Leather with an armor speed pet like Abraham makes you faster than naked, so that's an armor that's good for this task.

Of course best is to do both: speeding up your attacks and prolonging Vanishing Strikes.

I don't know where the break-even point is when it comes to alcohol vs. Mari Crudia but that can be tested easily: how many attacks can you get off during the duration?

I personally would prefer Mari Crudia because moving around as melee always takes some time and Pukestabber's alcohol induced speed doesn't help there at all while the longer duration from Mari Crudia always helps.

One can if course have both in supply: if you don't have the food use the alcohol and vice versa.

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Boeroer

[Waski]

Pukestabber with rum it's a trap choice, you end with the same numbers dual wielding  like with cpt,banquet, worse on rest fast weapons. Yeah ,you loose +20%dmg on 10-14 base weapon 

DoC armor vs Miscreant lether is  0,1 sec slower on recovery with two fast weapons and max DEX( cpt banquet 1,5vs1,4, 1,4vs1,3 with Abraham , mari crudia 1,6vs1,5 with Abraham  1,7vs1,6 without) but gives 2 extra guile.

Another option is  to max guile. DoC, The Bathyal Drop  and Adriatic Glow will give you 15 guile (5 vanising strikes, or going Swift plus 4, better hit to crit with Gambit, options is many)

Longest duration of vanishing strike you will get with Cabalist/Mari crudia/ooblit ( I was getting 14,5 sec with 27INT)

If you wan't to spam Wit of Death Herald maybe Mari Crudia would be the best.  

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Waski

[Boeroer]

Maria Cruria is a famous Troubadour from Aedyr.
 

[Aljxndr]

1 hour ago, Waski said:

Pukestabber with rum it's a trap choice, you end with the same numbers dual wielding  like with cpt,banquet, worse on rest fast weapons. Yeah ,you loose +20%dmg on 10-14 base weapon 

DoC armor vs Miscreant lether is  0,1 sec slower on recovery with two fast weapons and max DEX( cpt banquet 1,5vs1,4, 1,4vs1,3 with Abraham , mari crudia 1,6vs1,5 with Abraham  1,7vs1,6 without) but gives 2 extra guile.

Another option is  to max guile. DoC, The Bathyal Drop  and Adriatic Glow will give you 15 guile (5 vanising strikes, or going Swift plus 4, better hit to crit with Gambit, options is many)

Longest duration of vanishing strike you will get with Cabalist/Mari crudia/ooblit ( I was getting 14,5 sec with 27INT)

If you wan't to spam Wit of Death Herald maybe Mari Crudia would be the best.  

 

Sadly, I dont think I can live in a world where Dev didnt kill that scumbag. Are there any mods that give you the armor regardless? Seems way too good even if someone else ends up using it since using abraham would mean not using ooblit. 

Appart from that, rum seems more readily available than fancy foods, but yeah I see your point. Though it seems pukestabber + rum gives you + 35% speed (-1 dex), and captain banquet "only" 20%. I know about diminishing returns but given that streetfighter can get to 0.9 recovery Id say we havent reached that point yet. It should be easy to test and it requires no comittment so if it ends up being the same I can use other fast weapons. Maybe I can even use rust's stiletto for that extra invisibility per rest. Or just leave speed as is and focus on raising duration like boeroer said. Many options to consider, thanks everyone!

[Aljxndr]

7 hours ago, Boeroer said:

Also wear boots of speed. Moving to targets eats up lot of duration, too. You don't want to spend precious Guile on Escape too often.

Miscreants Leather with an armor speed pet like Abraham makes you faster than naked, so that's an armor that's good for this task.

Of course best is to do both: speeding up your attacks and prolonging Vanishing Strikes.

I don't know where the break-even point is when it comes to alcohol vs. Mari Crudia but that can be tested easily: how many attacks can you get off during the duration?

I personally would prefer Mari Crudia because moving around as melee always takes some time and Pukestabber's alcohol induced speed doesn't help there at all while the longer duration from Mari Crudia always helps.

One can if course have both in supply: if you don't have the food use the alcohol and vice versa.

 

 

 

I was thinking on using slipers of the assassin tho idk if its worth it. Which brings me to something I just realized, should I forfeit all other sources of invisibility once I get vanishing strikes? Enduring shadow seems pretty good for both that swift inspiration and the +50 deflection that (I assume, can anyone confirm?) last for the base 20 seconds + modifiers even after invisibility ends (after I attack).  On the other hand it is precious, precious guile I could be spending on vanishing strike + gambit spam. Actually, since Im thinking on using arquebus for an opener shot, I could shoot, fast reload thanks to stealth, endure shadows, shoot again, switch to daggers and start the VS + Gambit combo. I just need to know if swift and the +50 deflection lasts for the 20+ seconds

[Waski]

nope, it ends  with invisibility(after first hit)

1 hour ago, Aljxndr said:

pukestabber + rum gives you + 35% speed (-1 dex)

it doesn't stack like that 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Waski

[Aljxndr]

38 minutes ago, Waski said:

nope, it ends  with invisibility(after first hit)

it doesn't stack like that 

Yeah, I just decided to finally console test it (wasnt as hard as I thought) and it seems that the swift inspiration remains but not the +50 deflection. Considering you cant be hit while invisible afaik, it seems like a bug or extremely dumb design. But whatever, swift is nice for survivavility and running around triggering riposte with out of range misses once you run out of gambit and vanishing strikes I guess, and given that I will never use other abilities, there are enough level up points to spare, so its irrelevant if it ends up being situational I guess. 

As for pukestabber, mad drunk is a passive yeah? So the active bonus of rum should stack if I understand correctly.

[Waski]

 

11 minutes ago, Aljxndr said:

As for pukestabber, mad drunk is a passive yeah? So the active bonus of rum should stack if I understand correctly.

idk, you would have to summon  @thelee to explain why is it like that , I tested (cpt.banquet and rum) and the numbers where the same for dagger worse for poingard with rum (but i had few sources off +action speed like gloves. 

btw shank (another speed up) from rust poingard works with both weapons but you loose persistent distraction and deathblows while invis (you dont engage), you need another source of flanking (pernicious cloud its nice from stealth)

and most strangely Blade cascade won't work while under vanishing strikes, at least not for me

[Haplok]

On 4/16/2020 at 11:54 PM, Elric Galad said:

Did someone mentioned Ooblit pet yet ? Thta's the semi-obscure item one should know about when going SC Assassin as Main Character. It provides +3s on all beneficial effect on "bearer" which is especially interesting with Unbending and Vanishing Strike.

Only loosely related, as I play in Turn based and with a Spellblade Assasin... but does anybody know if the stealth effect from Assasin Slippers has a fixed duration or can it be extended? Perhaps with Ooblit or other means mentioned here?

It kinda sucks that you can't complete any "Cast" actions under this effect, as it expires immediately after your next turn happens (therefore before spellcasts are resolved). Very few spells are "Standard" actions.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Haplok

[Haplok]

As I don't have Ooblit or even Strand of Favor yet, I cannot test this properly myself (Maria Cruda food and Cabalist Gambeson alone are definitely not enough).

But trying the Assasin Slippers again, I've found a use case for them on a caster assasin at least.

IF the 1st kill happens on a ray or aoe spell with a lasting effect before it runs out (and the main target is still alive in case of rays to keep them ticking), the Slippers will enable Stealth and Assasinate will trigger on the next spell tick - at the beginning of your next round. Good thing rays have very high base damage in Turn Based mode.

Well, at least it works like this for rays. But I imagine it should also work for lasting aoe spells like Ninagauth's Freezing Pillar.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Haplok

[Boeroer]

4 hours ago, Haplok said:

Maria Cruda

Let's just call it "sushi". 

[Haplok]

Well, no progress with the Slippers.

But yesterday I experienced something new and fun for a Turn Based Assasin Spellblade. After getting Rapid Spell (and stacking the Spellcasting Action Speed with Alacricity, I guess), some ray spells seemed to resolve their second tick (out of 2/3) BEFORE my character's next round - still Invisible from Shadowing Beyond and with Assasinate active!

And those can do 150-230-ish Assasinate damage on crit per target, per tick. Over 200-300 with Takedown Combo.

This makes such a build really strong - A LOT stronger then Real Time.

Well, I'm just a little xp short of Freezing Pillar and will see if that works also. Also need to test further if that might only apply to spells with shorter cast time rays, like Ray of Fire (Ninagauth's spells tend to have long casts).

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by Haplok

[Haplok]

Well, this curiosity with remaining undetected after cast and 1st tick of ray spells (seems to only work with rays, maybe Walls?) seems less connected with Cast Speed/Initiative and more with enemy detection range. I was able to reliably reproduce this with 1 enemy, facing away from my char, who stood at the edge of the 5 ray spell range.

So it would be more difficult on mass fights, where enemies tend to face different directions. And you want to maximize the number of enemies affected by the ray (so you tend to "hug" enemies).

But in smaller fights, against fewer enemies, getting 2 Assasination triggers from a single Shadowing Beyond could be really nice...

Edited April 27, 2020 by Haplok