Coronavirus: Continuing Vigilance

[MedicineDan]

Sure Grom, because you're focused on Trump and I'm focused on therapies.  Seriously, I *am* focused on therapies.  I've been exposed to the virus.  I have co-workers infected with the virus.  I'm treating the most at risk population right now, some of whom have had the virus.  ...And I don't even work in a dedicated Covid-19 unit.  I work medsurg rehab, for crying out loud.  It doesn't matter whether Trump did something wrong or not.  This is precisely like the Russian collusion investigation, the Ukrainian debacle, and any number of Trump controversies.  You guys hate this guy so much that it has simply infected your thinking.

However, I'll have to disagree with Elsa.  I'm going to continue talking about the drug.  I'm going to do so because my underlying points will still be valid.  Whether or not Trump is a jackass, we should not pile on a drug just because he promotes.  Just like we shouldn't build it up for the same reason.  The absolute unreasoning hatred in some quarters, and I include you, leads to perverse outcomes.  Do you people realize that it hydroxychloroquine might actually end up being established treatment for Covid-19?  I suggest probably not, but there is a sizeable group of reputable physicians who promote its use.  We don't have enough information yet.  Scaring people so much they won't participate in rigorous trials is not just foolish.  It's evil.

You've always been ol' reliable.  You always rise up to the challenge.  I find it funny most of the time.  I even find your single minded perseveration admirable on occasion.  That doesn't mean you're right all the time, but you put on one hell of a show.  I would imagine the vast majority of people who even read this... well, vast majority of a small number of people, but whatever.  Anyhow, most folks reading this will be cheering you on.  Cool.  :shrug:  Doesn't make me wrong.

Look, Gromnir, reign court for now.  If it turns out that the only reasonable conclusion is that hydroxychloroquine was not only ineffective but also dangerous, I'll come here and own it.  That's mostly because I don't mind people erroneously (or more likely, cleverly pretending) that I touted it myself.  I never did, of course, but it must be that I did in order to straw man my arguments into a defense of Trump.  I wonder if anyone who talked about the absolutely established dangers of hydroxychloroquine will be willing to come here and own it if it turns out it works.  After all, while I made no firm claims about the drug, others did.

As to letting go.  I have to go to work, so it might not be immediately, but I'll be back.  Mostly, as has been the last couple of exchanges, because legitimate news has come out about this issue.  Lancet pulling its support of its own article is a big deal.  If the idea is that I should let it go and not mention actual news because it doesn't matter that widely released stories ended up being wrong... well... okay.  Heaven knows, the hypocrisy of you telling someone else to let it go.  lol I mean, come on!  Next thing you know, you'll be telling me I made this personal! .. :guffaw:   ...And you'll probably get away with it.  God bless you, Gromnir, you're a force of nature.

[Zoraptor]

Lancet didn't pull support for the article, the authors of the article withdrew it as being unverifiable due to not being able to distribute the raw data for peer review.

[Gromnir]

4 hours ago, MedicineDan said:

Sure Grom, because you're focused on Trump and I'm focused on therapies.  Seriously, I *am* focused on therapies.  I've been exposed to the virus.  I have co-workers infected with the virus.  I'm treating the most at risk population right now, some of whom have had the virus.  ...And I don't even work in a dedicated Covid-19 unit.  I work medsurg rehab, for crying out loud. 

and that is why your transparent and obtuse defense is so disheartening. again, you didn't wanna discuss. you evaded and deflected. however, the moment you see a shred o' support for what you imagine is trump's position, you hop right back into the discussion and share your proofs that people is attacking trump instead o' issue, when reverse is case-- you are defending trump instead o' the issue.

regardless o' recent news, the reasonable path is to let the science answer the question BEFORE strenuous advocating a drug with known side effects which is particular problematic for the people most at risk from covid-19. the comorbidities for covid-19 is like a laundry list o' the warnings for those discouraged from taking hydroxy under normal conditions. and yet you, a medical professional, can't keep self from defending trump bluster and irresponsibility. so far, science has not been kind to trump's claims. as a med professional, medicine dan should know it is irresponsible to be promoting a covid-19 treatment/drug which has so many side effects and potential dangerous drug interactions when there is no proven benefits for treatment. 

 "After all, while I made no firm claims about the drug, others did."

so, "some people say?" how very trump. nevertheless, you are unwilling to recognize that your ambivalence 'bout hydroxy should be a condemnation o' trump's support of an as yet unproven treatment for covid-19 which is causing freaking shortages for lupus patients for chrissakes. hold self out as some kinda authority or expert or person with particular interest and yet ignore that so far the only demonstrable medical impact trump promotion has had is lupus patients having to voluntarily reduce dosages 'cause o' a supply shortage.

keep saying Gromnir is attacking trump while you is discussing issue? ignores fact you made claim to not be interested in issue and didn't wanna discuss. nevertheless, you should recognize how inverted you got it, but you don't. you wanna defend trump w/o actual discussing the issue.

just as with trump crowd size, windmills and sharpiegate, we are discussing hydroxy because o' trump. should be a non issue. should be waiting for science. instead, medicine dan rises to defend trump's hydroxy puffery every couple o' pages. as before, am willing to wait for science, but am doubting medicine dan will be able to restrain self, 'cause medicine dan is defending trump and not the science, and trump support o' an unproven covid-19 treatment will be at issue before science is. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gfted1]

Protests could spur coronavirus outbreaks, and protesters should get tested, the CDC chief says. 

[Elerond]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/05/hydroxychloroquine-does-not-cure-covid-19-say-drug-trial-chiefs

Quote

 

Hydroxychloroquine does not work against Covid-19 and should not be given to any more hospital patients around the world, say the leaders of the biggest and best-designed trial of the drug, which experts will hope finally settle the question.

“If you are admitted to hospital, don’t take hydroxychloroquine,” said Martin Landray, deputy chief investigator of the Recovery trial and professor of medicine and epidemiology at Oxford University. “It doesn’t work.”

Landray said the hype should now stop. “It is being touted as a game-changer, a wonderful drug, a breakthrough. This is an incredibly important result, because worldwide we can stop using a drug that is useless.”

The Recovery trial is a “gold standard” randomised controlled trial, designed to find an answer to a question by recruiting patients in similar circumstances either to take the drug or to take a placebo. Their doctors and the researchers do not know which ones are taking the genuine trial drug.

Because of the furore over the Lancet paper, the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency asked the trial’s independent monitoring board to look at the latest data. The board revealed the findings to the researchers, recommending that the hydroxychloroquine arm of the trial should be stopped.

Since March, when the trial began, a total of 1,542 patients had been randomised to receive hydroxychloroquine, while 3,132 patients were randomised to receive only normal care. Over 28 days, 25.7% of patients on hydroxychloroquine died, compared with 23.5% of the others. The difference is not statistically significant – it could have arisen by chance. But the clear conclusion was that hydroxychloroquine did not work, said the researchers.

 

Hydroxychloroquine just doesn't get breaks, as soon as there seem to be little hope, comes another crushing blow

[Zoraptor]

Bad news for the follicly challenged, it appears that baldy Ballmer types are significantly more likely to get covid19 than hirsute Fabios.

(Ironically, it's because baldies have more androgens and are thus more 'manly' than girly men with flowing locks)

[Raithe]

When you really get into the process of your own mask..

[majestic]

Looks like he's trying to keep the mal aria away. Like old school plague doctors, just with less style.

 

[Zoraptor]

No active cases here at all now, and no new cases for more than 2 weeks. So all restrictions (except those on international travelers) are being lifted at midnight. Time to pop the cork on the Lindauer, at least until the inevitable asymptomatic Avatar or America's Cup person brings it back in again despite the 2 week quarantine.

[Amentep]

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