Project for a Balance Mod

[Elric Galad]

12 hours ago, Phenomenum said:

I have another idea - simply tune down some bosses HP. Especially megabosses.

Indeed, that's the Root of the problem. That means you have to bring ressource regenerating classes for such fights, which is annoying, especially for solo (but the game isn't balanced for solo anyway). I don't plan to change this for now, but I had it in mind as well. Dorudugan will be harder to beat after my planned SoT tweak...

[Elric Galad]

12 hours ago, Phenomenum said:

I'm working on CP addon, but feel free to use my proposals/ideas in your Balance Mod. 

Sure, but I'm designing and testing my mod with CP installed so it's good to know what is planned. I'll probably revert to what I initially planned for distraction training (extra duration), and I'see what I'll do after tout release 

[Phenomenum]

7 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

I don't plan to change this for now

Ok, you can leave this to me. Though i don't have saves i need someone to test changes.

Right now Megabosses have base HP + per level HP. For example, Dorudugan have 2000 base + 172 per level. So on 20-th level it should be 5268 * difficulty coeff. Insane!

7 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Sure, but I'm designing and testing my mod with CP installed so it's good to know what is planned.

Ok, then we should keep in touch with each other. As for Distracted training, i stopped for 9 sec. Disorientation (it will be 6 sec. against 20 Resolve) + 25% resist. (or 20%)

[Waski]

2 hours ago, Phenomenum said:

Right now Megabosses have base HP + per level HP. For example, Dorudugan have 2000 base + 172 per level. So on 20-th level it should be 5268 * difficulty coeff. Insane!

Not more?? There is Google doc somewhere  by MaxQuest with digits close to 17k hp on PotD for Doru. Idk if its correct....

Edited February 22, 2020 by Waski

[Phenomenum]

38 minutes ago, Waski said:

Not more??

There's also level scaling, but i operatings numbers from characters.gamedatabundle

    "GameDataObjects": [
        {
            "$type": "Game.GameData.BaseStatsGameData, Assembly-CSharp",
            "DebugName": "BS_Construct_Helfire_Ironclad",
            "ID": "3d91dc03-576c-485a-9f82-4b74463bc861",
            "Components": [
                {
                    "$type": "Game.GameData.BaseStatsComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
                    "IsPlayerClass": "false",
                    "BaseDeflection": 5,
                    "BaseFortitude": -20,
                    "BaseReflexes": -45,
                    "BaseWill": -25,
                    "MeleeAccuracyBonus": 35,
                    "RangedAccuracyBonus": 25,
                    "MaxHealth": 2000,
                    "HealthPerLevel": 142

[Elric Galad]

7 hours ago, Phenomenum said:

As for Distracted training, i stopped for 9 sec. Disorientation (it will be 6 sec. against 20 Resolve)

Nay, it won't . Distracting Training applies Pet's Intellect. So unless Bonded Fury is active, 9s would be reduced by default to 6.75s.

Furthermore, be aware that the -10 Deflection from Distracting Training stacks with similar effect (cause it comes from a passive).
Even if on paper it looks worse than Distraction, but at high level, you'll have tons of way to inflict Perception Afflictions and many foes with Perception Immunity/Resistance.
I think a "hard" -10 Deflection is better than the Distracted. EDIT : oww, it's Disoriented, not Distrated. Well that feels a bit strong too. 

Of course, your change makes sense because of the name of the ability (EDIT a bit less if you choose Disoriented). And the added 25% Melee Weapon resistance is strong enough on its own as a Passive Ability. It might even be a tad too strong. I would even consider decreasing it to 20%.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Elric Galad

[Elric Galad]

1) My new version of Shadowed Hunters (tested and working, I only have to change to description text) :

- Stay at 3 Bonds
- Healing buffed to 10hp/s
- Added a new effect : while Shadowed Hunters is active Ranger and Pet stacks "Shadowed Hunters stacks" every 3s. On next weapon attack, the stacks are released to add 10 raw damages each. It is basically a backstab prepared over time for 10 raw damages/3s, for each member of the duo. 

Note 1 : it works even if the attack is after the breaking of invisbility (would be very complicated to code otherwise)
Note 2 : Only applied once for AoE weapons and multi-hit weapons.

I'm pretty happy with this idea (it really feels like Hunters now), but the numbers can be tweaked easily if it feels too weak or too strong.


2) I also changed Hastening Exhortation & Upgrades (all cost 1 zeal) :
- Hastening Exhortation : Nimble for 15s
- Zealous Exhortation : Swift for 15s
- Hastening Command: Nimble and Strong for 15s

[Phenomenum]

26 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

Distracting Training applies Pet's Intellect.

But i thought Pet's Intellect = 10. Now i see it's 5.

26 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

Of course, your change makes sense because of the name of the ability (EDIT a bit less if you choose Disoriented). And the added 25% Melee Weapon resistance is strong enough on its own as a Passive Ability. It might even be a tad too strong. I would even consider decreasing it to 20%.

Thanks! I barely tested new Distracted Training myself (messing around with keywords today), so further tweaking is inevitable. As always.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Phenomenum

[Phenomenum]

1 minute ago, Elric Galad said:

Note 1 : it works even if the attack is after the breaking of invisbility (would be very complicated to code otherwise)
Note 2 : Only applied once for AoE weapons and multi-hit weapons.

You can use my code for Backstab from CP Extra to solve both problems.

[Elric Galad]

14 minutes ago, Phenomenum said:

You can use my code for Backstab from CP Extra to solve both problems.

Yeah, I thought about it.
But the #2 is not a problem. If it applied to AoE weapons, it might be too strong.

For #1, I would consider it, but the main problem is to clear the accumulated stacks when the invisibility breaks. I don't think it is that bad if you consider that the bonus comes from the target being studied rather than the ambush itself. If I find something, I'll improve it.

[Elric Galad]

12 hours ago, Phenomenum said:

But i thought Pet's Intellect = 10. Now i see it's 5.

Thanks! I barely tested new Distracted Training myself (messing around with keywords today), so further tweaking is inevitable. As always.

Well, I think a Disoriented is hard to balance. When it works it is almost too strong, but you have so many ways to inflict Perception affliction that it also feels redundant.
If I were you (or if you allow me to tweak your change for my mod ), I would keep the old -10 deflection debuff, but set it to base 10s (it gives another reason to cast bonded fury).

20% Melee resistance is enough. Pet also gets Superior Camouflage, so it has fairly good defenses vs every weapon attacks. Even at 15s% I would consider it enough since it is only a part of the ability.

The ability should not become a must-have pick, which is a risk because it fits any ranger build.


For your information, my next Steps are Barbarian then Rogue.

[Phenomenum]

Can't say anything about Babarian. Rogue need some attention - too much hobble Afflictions among active abilities, the Bells branch is cost too much (2 Guile) and unuseful, Sap a very situational in my book (have an idea to rise Guile cost and implement Health drain).

[Elric Galad]

2 hours ago, Phenomenum said:

Can't say anything about Babarian.

There is a (simple) change I plan which may be better suited for CP (or its add-on) : Adding Fire Keyword to Instruments of Boundless Rage. 

2 hours ago, Phenomenum said:

the Bells branch is cost too much (2 Guile) and unuseful,

Indeed, Bell branch is an useless mess. I have no clear idea what to do with it.

1 Guile would make it strictly better than Concussive Shot. I would like to limit 1-ressource ranged interrupt on graze to ranger.

The problem is that current effects are not worth 2 Guiles and are also pretty redundant and boring (except maybe the Dazed from 2H upgrade).

So... what to do ? Maybe add a short Stun that goes well with the "Bell Theme" ?

Even with that, it will be complicated this ability that is basically 3 abilities in 1, with none of them very exciting at the moment.

 

2 hours ago, Phenomenum said:

Sap a very situational in my book (have an idea to rise Guile cost and implement Health drain).

Well, it applies 2 30s affliction, which is useful to enable deathblow (see side note below about Hobbled affliction).

Perplexing Sap is a serious candidate for worst ability of the game, though. My plan is to remove the weird additional effect and to have it inflict 4 Tier 1 Afflictions :
Hobbled, Staggered, Confusion, Shaken, each for 30s
This would be sort of ultimate Affliction debuffer (and Deathblow enabler) without removing the usefulness of other strikes that provides higher tier affliction.

Going the Health drain route is basically trying to implement a new ability. So... why not create a new ability ?

2 hours ago, Phenomenum said:

Rogue need some attention - too much hobble Afflictions among active abilities,

 

Well, there's 3. Not more than Distracted.

Flurry of Blades do it in an AoE and is limited to Single Class Rogues who don't pick Shadowing Beyond, so it's not a big pb for me

Redundancy between Crippling Strike and Sap could be a problem. What I could do is swapping the Staggered effect I want to add to Perplexing Sap and Hobbling.
So basic Sap would cause Confusion and Staggered, and upgrade would add Shaken and Hobbled. That would make Hobbled redundant only a problem for Single Class, who may basically ignore Crippling Strike or use it for Arterial Strikes.

[Phenomenum]

28 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

So... what to do ? Maybe add a short Stun that goes well with the "Bell Theme" ?

Don't know yet.

28 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

Going the Health drain route is basically trying to implement a new ability. So... why not create a new ability ?

I already created one. I think it's enough. 
I'm not a fan of many active abilities. Too much for poor Rogue, considering a couple must-have passives.
 

28 minutes ago, Elric Galad said:

Flurry of Blades do it in an AoE and is limited to Single Class Rogues who don't pick Shadowing Beyond, so it's not a big pb for me

I think, that Tier 1 affliction for hi-level ability is a garbage.

Though, as i said, i don't have any particular ideas for now. Overall, i want to add more various Afflictions in active abilities: Stun, Immobilize, Shaken, even Charmed (maybe on Perplexing Sap), Health drain and so on. Make Rogue more versatile against different types of enemies and situations.

Edited February 23, 2020 by Phenomenum

[Phenomenum]

Also i plan to extend duration of some spells - who needs Interdiction with 7 sec. Dazed base duration?

[UltimaLuminaire]

I can confirm the fire keyword is fine on IoBR, though it comes too late to matter.

[Phenomenum]

19 minutes ago, UltimaLuminaire said:

IoBR

@UltimaLuminaire What is it?

[UltimaLuminaire]

? Oh. Instrument of Boundless Rage.

[Elric Galad]

7 hours ago, UltimaLuminaire said:

I can confirm the fire keyword is fine on IoBR, though it comes too late to matter.

Ooooh never trust the wiki !

[Powerotti]

19 hours ago, Elric Galad said:

Redundancy between Crippling Strike and Sap could be a problem. What I could do is swapping the Staggered effect I want to add to Perplexing Sap and Hobbling.
So basic Sap would cause Confusion and Staggered, and upgrade would add Shaken and Hobbled. That would make Hobbled redundant only a problem for Single Class, who may basically ignore Crippling Strike or use it for Arterial Strikes.

So maybe instead crowd control ability, make sap "crowd uncontrol"?

15sec confusion and 30%chance for 5sec charmed every 5sec tick. - so affected foe will be more unpredictable and chose their targets randomly.

Perplexing sap - add 20% chance to prone affected enemy every tick.

[Elric Galad]

20 hours ago, Phenomenum said:

Also i plan to extend duration of some spells - who needs Interdiction with 7 sec. Dazed base duration?

Dazed is quite strong on its own due to -4 Penetration. It's a low Tier spell so you can get a lot of bonus from PL. With high INT, the total duration could be higher than 15s.

But this is not my main point : Dazed also nullifies Engagement, even vs Might Resistant foe. So it is still usable to reposition your glass cannons.

Finally, for low Tier spells, I'm usually more in favor of lowering their cast time/recovery than increasing their effect. They don't use critical ressources so weak effect is okay, but the main reason not to use them is usually that you have something better to do.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Elric Galad

[Elric Galad]

> 15sec confusion and 30%chance for 5sec charmed every 5sec tick. - so affected foe will be more unpredictable and chose their targets randomly.

You mean like an actual DnD/PoE1 Confusion 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Elric Galad

[Powerotti]

Yes, exactly like that

[Elric Galad]

3 hours ago, Powerotti said:

Perplexing sap - add 20% chance to prone affected enemy every tick.

I love this idea.
But I think Interrupt would "feel" better than Prone (would look weird to have a target falling for no reason).

It feels like an echo. A persisting sound.

You know what it remind me ?
A freaking Bell !

I think this may be the best effect to add on Bell Strike.

[Elric Galad]

Sorry messed with editing.

Edited February 24, 2020 by Elric Galad