PS: Bastila's Dead

[Maria Caliban]

I was standing before the copier, deadeyed, as it thrummed along and spat out three copies of fifty collated, double-sided pages of a report. I think it was near page 173 that a line from a post wandered into my head and set up residence. It suggested that in 'Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords' Bastila Shan might be dead and/or returned to the darkside.

 

During the time, I originally read that I simply mentally shrugged but as I stood before the copier it occurred to me that it might actually happen. I loathed the way they handled Aribeth's death in NeverWinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark. Here I am, wadding into a brand new adventure and the game feels the need to tell me, "By the way, your 'love interest' in the last game was executed for treason." Instead of wanting to continue with Hordes, I wanted to load up the Aurora Toolset so I could burst Lord Nasher's head open like a ripe casaba melon.

 

I don't care about the skittles variety of lightsaber colors, the new Force powers, or the number of worlds but now that I've stumbled across something that matters I figured that I'd start a thread about it.

 

Please do not have Bastila be dead or backslid into the darkside. The fact that I hate an idea isn't doesn't count for much so I'll try and bolster my argument.

 

1. John Gardner suggested that all (non-meta) fiction could be broken down into one simple idea: A character cares about something and that something is threatened. In the first KOTOR I didn't care about defeating Malak, I already whooped his pansy ass and sent him running. I wanted to get my NPC back from whatever marijuana fueled madness sent her into the arms of a two-bit hood. You rob the story of its emotional pay off if you reverse its crux after the fact.

 

2. There are some genres in which it's fashionable to kill off the love interest/best friend/loyal servant at the very end in order to create the 'bittersweet' ending

[Drakron]

They sould have set the game 50 years after SW:KotOR events.

 

This kind of sequels tend to piss off someone when they decide who died, who live and whar exactly happened with is the same as saying to the player "the choicesyou made dont matter" with is very frustating since the precived freedom of choise and cause-and-effect is removed.

 

This is why I am not optimist of The Munchkin Lords, many things that lead to bad games are present on this title.

[NInjaPirate]

Killing Bastila wouldn't make to many people mad but doing it to Carth would constitute a sin for a lot of people (mostly chicks).

[Meshugger]

I'm under the impression that Bastila's dead too, but i'm not angry about it in any way. It just seem to suit KotOR IIs story well. If she's alive, i doubt that the devs will say anything about it since her fate is probably tightly connected to Revans fate, mostly due to their 'bond'.

[Maria Caliban]

Gee, women liking male characters. What's next? Men liking female characters?! It's the end of the gaming world!

[Alyt]

I'm an optimist by nature, so i don't think she's dead unless you tell the game that she is. I think this very thing is the reason you won't be seeing much of the NPC's that could be killed, other than by word of mouth from other NPC's or short encounters that can be removed if you tell the game that she died(boo). I really would prefer this solution to the cop-out "she died later anyway" way of handling it. As i'm sure those who would prefer she was dead(hiss) would hate a "she wasn't actually dead"-solution if they wanted her to take a larger part in the story.

 

I guess we'll see in February, no reason to worry about it now.

 

Btw: Being an optimist means getting frequently disappointed but it's the only downside to it

[Zane0]

I wouldn't really mind Bastila getting killed sometime in the game, perhaps if you make certain decisions. Learning that Bastila got killed when you begin wouldn't be very good though. It'd essentially rob some KOTOR I players of their accomplishments.

[DarthShad]

Hmmm...but you are suppose to be a new PC on KotOR II. You are not Revan anymore.

[Zane0]

Even though the players aren't Revan, they're still looking out for him in the sequel. It would probably be a good idea to see some continuity and respect for the original main char's accomplishments. If these accomplishments are ignored, then the story's overall strength will likely suffer. Why bother getting involved with the story and attaching yourself to characters if they seem to be casually swept away in the next game, anyways?

 

Bah, my point is that continuity = good if the devs pull it off right!

[GhostofAnakin]

I agree with those who say that killing Bastila off "offscreen" would be a huge mistake. As the original poster stated, a lot of people put forth a lot of effort into redeeming Bastila (those who didn't kill her), and our effort would seem wasted if we find out that KOTOR2 just decided to do away with her with some lame excuse for her death. The only time she should die is if the PC in the first game killed her and thus told the game that she had died. But for those of us that either redeemed her or had her join us in the DS, it would seem like such a brutal and disappointing way to connect KOTOR1 and KOTOR2.

 

I'd rather it if her destiny matches whatever is planned for Revan's, in that whatever fate Obsidian has in store for Revan, that Bastila is at his side for it (unless, as I said, you killed her in KOTOR1).

[OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN]

are you deliberatly trying to make me cry?

[Plutospawn]

As much as the idea of Bastila just being *poof* dead puts a really bad taste in my mouth, I could grudgingly understand it if the devs chose to go that way. Bastila played such an integral part in the first KotOR and it's been repeatedly stated that Sith Lords will be an entirely different game that even having Bastila's presence around could overshadow the new storyline.

But, I will also say if they choose to kill her off, there better be a damn good explanation. An execution for war crimes would just be weak, especially since she'd most likely be punished by the Jedi if at all and KotOR I drills it into the player's skull that the Jedi don't believe in execution.

[Muad'Dib]

I sincerely hope that Bastila isn't dead or back in the DS. I came to like Bastila very much in spite her constant lectures and I loved using those really cheap Han Solo pick up lines that tormented her like poor Leia. I must admit that I will be very disappointed when confirmation comes that Bastila is not one of my LS npcs and I can continue to explore the character (and bug the hell out of her too just like when I was Revan), especially since I like her appearance much more than that white haired girl, who I hope is just an artist rendition Kreia because it seems a bit of an overkill having two white haired female LS Jedis in the group.

 

I would have really liked it better if the npc list had been a mixed combination of characters from KotOR 1 and the new ones and having the rest of the original npcs appear in their cameos, while I can understand taking out Mission, Zaalbar and HK-47 (Who should be with Revan following him though I know supposedly HK comes out in KotOR 2 or another droid like him), Carth, Juhani (who I never felt was much of an importnat character), even Canderous (who was an awesome character) I'd still wish to have Bastila and Jolee in my party, though I know Kreia takes over the Jolee mentor bit. In spite of it being a new storyline, somehow it doesn't feel like a true continuation of the original with a new party, especially considering Sith Lords' timeline. After all, you didn't see a brand new cast in ESB or RotJ from ANH. But I still hold out a little bit of luck to see some of these old friends as companions again in my new adventure. Oh well time will only tell...

[Maria Caliban]

Maud'Dib!

Maud'Dib!

Maud'Dib!

Maud'Dib!

 

*And the Sci-Fi geek goes back to lurk mode*

 

PS: No dead Bastila, please.

[Enoch]

I don't think there's any plausible way she can be in the sequel alive. Besides the practical difficulties of her being a ridiculously high level, there've got to be some difficult storyline concerns (i.e. reconciling the game between those who killed her, redeemed but didn't romance her, romanced and redeemed her, took her as a non-romantic apprentice, and took her as an apprentice and lover). Plus, from what we've heard about TSL, there aren't any other Jedi around.

 

The best way to solve the problem is to tie her fate to Revan's. Stipulate that both of them died under mysterious circumstances (if the player indicates that she survived KotOR I). Let us discover the real sequence of events, and maybe avenge their deaths (even though such thoughts lead to the Dark Side). Yeah, it's still an off-screen event, but the player can feel some involvement in the story by solving the mystery.

[GhostofAnakin]

I don't think there's any plausible way she can be in the sequel alive. Besides the practical difficulties of her being a ridiculously high level, there've got to be some difficult storyline concerns (i.e. reconciling the game between those who killed her, redeemed but didn't romance her, romanced and redeemed her, took her as a non-romantic apprentice, and took her as an apprentice and lover). Plus, from what we've heard about TSL, there aren't any other Jedi around.

 

The best way to solve the problem is to tie her fate to Revan's. Stipulate that both of them died under mysterious circumstances (if the player indicates that she survived KotOR I). Let us discover the real sequence of events, and maybe avenge their deaths (even though such thoughts lead to the Dark Side). Yeah, it's still an off-screen event, but the player can feel some involvement in the story by solving the mystery.

I think there's easily a plausible way she can be in the sequel alive.

 

For starters, Obsidian's whole idea with this "PC will tell the game what they believe happened in KOTOR1 through various conversations..." could easily accomplish this regardless of whether Bastila died or survived the first game.

 

If she was redeemed or if she was at your side when you reclaimed your Dark Lord status, the game then ties her fate and whereabouts to Revan's in the Unknown regions. If she died, then Revan's out in the Unknown's alone. But either way, all they have to do is ask the PC which scenario took place in the first game.

 

The main reason why I think just killing her off is dumb is because, as has been stated, you (the PC) is not Revan this time, therefore from a character point of view, there's no emotional attachment to Bastila, and thus killing her off won't envoke a passionate response from the PC. And because the PC won't care whether she is dead or not, then killing her doesn't make the storyline more intense or sad, but rather just makes the previous game's decisions obsolete and unimportant, IMO.

[jedimaster1141]

first of all lets clear up a few things and read the previews on kotor 2 people first they said you are the only knowen jedi but as you progress you find that not to be true also it is said that different chars will show up in the game based on that conversation you have also they havent said so but they also dont confirm that t3 may not be the only char from the first game to join your party and last where the heck did you hear that reven dissapeared into the unknown regions i never heard that in any preview i just heard they dont know what happened

[jedimaster1141]

first of all lets clear up a few things and read the previews on kotor 2 people first they said you are the only knowen jedi but as you progress you find that not to be true also it is said that different chars will show up in the game based on that conversation you have also they havent said so but they also dont confirm that t3 may not be the only char from the first game to join your party and last where the heck did you hear that reven dissapeared into the unknown regions i never heard that in any preview i just heard they dont know what happened

[Muad'Dib]

Maud'Dib!

Maud'Dib!

Maud'Dib!

Maud'Dib!

 

*And the Sci-Fi geek goes back to lurk mode*

 

PS: No dead Bastila, please.

He, he, he, that's a bit scary Maria

 

On the last known Jedi must be just past the intro sequence since the first person you meet is Kreia and she's a Jedi, so really the whole no other Jedi thing is a bit of puzzle for me.

 

I agree with GhostofAnakin that from the character's perspective the death of Bastila would be completely irrelevant. The storyline concerns is precisely how I perceive she might show as an npc or in the least in a cameo. As I read in the questions to the devs and the articles of various magazines and previews, your alignment, sex and the events you input into how KotOR 1 ended all affect exactly who your party is made up of; say you killed Jolee and Juhani at the top of the temple in the unknown planet and put that into KotOR 2's storyline, thus neither would show up in KotOR 2, but if you were LS and didn't kill them, maybe one or both appear either as npcs or cameos in KotOR 2. So really Bastila showing up ingame is just a metter of telling the game she was alive at the end of KotOR 1. And she doesn't have to have been romantically tied to Revan at all, as I recall I could refuse pursuing the relationship at any time (I did in DS ending though took her for apprentice) so her connection to the new PC in KotOR 2 can also be modified in the same way as her appearance in the storyline.

 

The fact about her strength can pretty much function i the same manner as Baldur's Gate worked, the PC ended up being pretty powerful at the end of BG1 and he/she remained the central character in BG2. Fact is no matter how strong you are, there is someone else always stronger. And Bastila doesn't even have to appear from the very beginning anyways, depending on how long the game is and what kind of relationship you can develop with her she could appear mid-way through or (in case of romance) in the second world, Taris sure took a long time in the original and meeting Bastila in the equivalent time it takes to fully finish all the quests and reach Dantooine is a fair amount of time where a lot happens. Still, I hope the devs in Obsidian do like the Bioware devs did with KotOR and put up small character bios so we can know who shows up ingame.

[Alyt]

I seem to recall reading in CGW or another magazine about KotOR2 that the Republic is still strong in the Core Worlds. That they've pulled back to reinforce there. Does this mean that the Jedi Order still exists there and that all the talk about the Sith taking over is only true for the Outer Rim Territories? (Which is very similar to KotOR1 to be honest)

[jaguars4ever]

first of all lets clear up a few things and read the previews on kotor 2 people first they said you are the only knowen jedi but as you progress you find that not to be true also it is said that different chars will show up in the game based on that conversation you have also they havent said so but they also dont confirm that t3 may not be the only char from the first game to join your party and last where the heck did you hear that reven dissapeared into the unknown regions i never heard that in any preview i just heard they dont know what happened

Main Entry: 1pe

[Darvin]

I agree completely, Bastila dead is not something I want to see in this game. I played through KotOR a number of times, some light and some dark, but the data that I will be inputting into KotOR2 will be from my light-side and Bastila romance ending, so of course I want to see Bastila alive, with Revan, and light.

 

Now, given all that, I do realize that this is their (Obsidian/LucasArts) story and ultimately it will be what they want it to be. I can only hope that our suggestions/requests are listened to or at the least considered, only if as briefly as one minuet discussion in a story meeting.

[sickboycp]

I think that both Bastila and Carth will make at least a token appearance depending on which KOTOR 1 ending you choose: after all, I'm sure Obsidian doesn't want to deal with 1000s of whiny Bastila fanboys and Cartholics bombarding them with nasty emails bemoaning their absence.

[Grumbold]

If they are going to interrogate you about Revan during the opening sequence, finding out what happened to Bastila seems just as essential. If you say she is alive then she can have vanished looking for Revan/Revan's killers or Revan can have vanished looking for her. Much nicer to hold out the possibility of her being alive somewhere outside of the story than just slapping you with a death that you feel is wrong. The same applies for Carth.

[kumquatq3]

I for one would think it would be cool, for the male darkside ending, to have Bastilla as a sith lord.