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im doing a retrain with universalist. is the spell despondent blows worth it? or should i replace it with divine mark after i have devotions of the faithful ? btw , what could be a good definitive build for universalists ?  preferably a build for solo character.

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Lifegiver/Woedica is best support in the game however it’s best suited for party play

Despondent Blows is pretty unique spell because of its melee Accuracy reducing affect it is really good

Edited by Blunderboss

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Yes, it stacks with most other debuffs that reduce accuracy (via PER affliction or even direct PER reduction - see Miasma of Dull-Mindedness). But I never tried if it stacks with Devotions (which also has an ACC debuffing component). Mostly because I tend to cast Devotions right at the start where it's hard to hit enemies with it anyways. Which is maybe suboptimal...

Edited by Boeroer

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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It should not stack(devotions and despondent blows) but you can’t ever know with PoE if something works the way it should 🤷‍♂️

Edited by Blunderboss

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I believe it does not stack. But trying it out doesn't hurt. :) 
Anyway Desponent Blows can be nice in combination with deflection/defense buffs and PER debuffs.


Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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Definitely doesn't stack, but like Boeroer suggests I imagine many people use Devotions mostly for the +10 acc, and the -10 acc is just frosting on the cake if it lands on anyone, so it's not as redundant as it seems.

Keep in mind though, that the -15 acc for despondent blows is for melee only, so devotions still has use in making spells/ranged less accurate, even when they are overlapping. (And it's not like the difference between +15 deflection or +15 all defenses, which stack because they're a different "category" of bonus, here it's the same category of bonus it's just that one is "conditional." Stacking rules, amiright?)

On 10/21/2019 at 5:18 PM, nouser said:

im doing a retrain with universalist. is the spell despondent blows worth it? or should i replace it with divine mark after i have devotions of the faithful ? btw , what could be a good definitive build for universalists ?  preferably a build for solo character.

Divine Mark is alright, but not good enough to really center on (duration is short) as a "replacement."

Personally of all the priest multiclasses, I have a real hard time getting a good synergistic (more than the sum of its parts) outcome for universalist (celebrant is the other). I would actually lean towards some sort of x/Skaen or x/Wael multiclass. Both skaen and wael give you unique survivability capabilities that a druid doesn't have access to otherwise (and skaen Finishing Blow on a shapeshifted, wild-striked druid might be half-decent). For solo, Skaen might be supreme (due to Shadowing Beyond). Just whatever you do, you probably don't want to pick up Shifter: Even for things like Finishing Blow or Escape--which are ordinarily rogue abilities--by virtue of being on a skaen priest, they count as spells, so you can't use them while shapeshifted.

Also, keep in mind that cat form has an amazing ability (an ability that gives you a huge action speed bonus) that can be enhanced with Salvation of Time. A late game universalist combo, but with something like +33% action speed (along with rapid casting perk) you can dump out spells very very quickly. You can't be a Fury to do this, however. (Ancient or Lifegiver would be better choices here). I did this with a party where I had a single-class Ancient and Xoti, coupled with Triumph of the Crusaders my Ancient was a non-stop invulnerable killing machine even on PotD+upscaling+challenges. (Note that this combo isn't exactly a synergistic multiclass since you're likely better off having a separate druid and priest to pull it off.)

edit - also, despondent blows is really good debuff. it also has a crit-to-hit debuff component which is very very useful on PotD with upscaling difficulty.

Edited by thelee

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Woedica Writs are pretty nice since they can bypass enemy Inspirations, IMO Universalist is the most OP character you can have in a party playtrough in terms of how faceroll the game becomes once you start casting those buffs and hots while staying stealthed preferably. Once you are out of stealth you can just go into cat and start the salvation of time shenanigans.

I pick Wael instead of Woedica when going for trial of iron tho as it’s safer choice 

Edited by Blunderboss

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6 minutes ago, Blunderboss said:

Woedica Writs are pretty nice since they can bypass enemy Inspirations, IMO Universalist is the most OP character you can have in a party playtrough

yeah, i don't doubt a universalist can be good, that's what I was focusing on synergy. Outside of a solo run, the dilemma I keep facing is "boy it seems like I could do this way better with just a separate druid and priest"

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8 minutes ago, Blunderboss said:

I pick Wael instead of Woedica when going for trial of iron tho as it’s safer choice 

just wanted to add that outside of specific challenges, skaen can literally end a fight whenever they want to recharge (shadowing beyond) so I think it might be the safest choice.

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I was refering to party play,in case of solo Invisibility is the king that is true. Not sure how good solo universalist would be tho never tried one ( tho I’m sure any priest character can solo no problems with ultimate cheese BDD SoT Wits or deaths herald combo ) but this multi class combo is made for enabling glass cannon no real tank parties on difficulties above potd. Since it fits both priest and Druid in one party slot and then you can go with 2 bruisers and 2 ranged damage dealers and nuke the **** out of enemies before they have idea what’s going best defense imo is dead enemies.

Edited by Blunderboss

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7 minutes ago, Blunderboss said:

I was refering to party play,in case of solo Invisibility is the king that is true.

oh yeah i got my wires crossed - op mentioned hypothetical solo build and assumed briefly that you were talking about solo. shadowing beyond is a little less useful in party play, i would agree for party play wael is safer.

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so, despondent and devotions do not stack ?  what makes 2 spells stack after all? what is the mechanical rule ?

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39 minutes ago, nouser said:

so, despondent and devotions do not stack ?  what makes 2 spells stack after all? what is the mechanical rule ?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/227477-pillars-of-eternity-ii-deadfire/faqs/76599/stacking-rules

The main rule is "active effects don't stack, passive effects do."

The devil is in the details of what counts as "active" and what counts as "passive" and how you define a stacking "category."

Example 1: all abilities on the left side of a class tree are active, no exceptions. This means that even effects that are on all the time (monk's iron body, paladin auras, fighter stances) are considered "active." Similarly, most abilities on the right side of a class tree are passive, with the main exception of chanter chants which are inscrutably on the right side of the tree despite not being passive.

Example 2: most consumables bestow effects that are considered "active." So Potion of Piercing Strikes gives a +2 PEN that will be suppressed by Tenacious (+2 PEN) or overridden by chanter's +3 PEN invocation.

Example 3: most item-based effects are passive (even conditional ones), unless the item is granting you an ability that you can turn off/activate, at which point some of them are passive and others are active. I believe the necklace that lets you +1 PL is a passive even though it's something you have to actively click to use.

Example 4: Even if two buffs or debuffs are affecting the same stat, depending the bonus is determined it may or may not stack. The big example here are effects that grant +X deflection, versus effects that grant +Y defenses. Even though the +Y defenses also grants a deflection bonus, the two effects are considered "different" and so both will stack and apply to your deflection. On the other hand, as mentioned in this thread, there are sometimes buffs that are merely conditional (think hatchet's +3 deflection against melee; it's passive, but that's an example of a conditional bonus - you can even see it listed as such if you hover over your deflection). Despondent Blows is a -15 accuracy that is conditioned on a melee attack, rather than a -15 melee accuracy. So, it won't stack with Devotions (which is a -10 accuracy with no conditions) because it's the same "type" of bonus, even though it doesn't apply in the same situations. (edit - for this, it helps to read ability descriptions like a lawyer; it's mostly auto-generated so if an ability is phrased differently than another, chances are it's a different "type" for purposes of stacking)

Example 5: For some reason, throw all this out the window when it comes to "hit->crit" "hit->graze" etc. effects as well as % chance to interrupt effects. They don't stack additively, nor do they suppress each other - they all function independently of each other (effectively stacking multiplicatively).

Edited by thelee
  • Hmmm 1

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2 hours ago, thelee said:

I believe the necklace that lets you +1 PL is a passive even though it's something you have to actively click to use.

I’m wondering maybe abilities that grant you something for entire combat are considered passives ?

Or it’s might just be a bug ... 😵

Edited by Blunderboss

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36 minutes ago, Blunderboss said:

I’m wondering maybe abilities that grant you something for entire combat are considered passives ?

Or it’s might just be a bug ... 😵

either way it goes it's a bug :)

potion of luminous adra (no duration) gives you +2 all skills that doesn't stack, until you go through a save/load cycle or something, at which point it stacks. (discovered this to my advantage during my ultimate run)

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Yeh i found it weird that I can stack potion of luminous adra and wild mare inn buff for + skills and then I tried to add prostitution buff on top and it also stacks for total of +4 to skills, but I think other prostitution buffs stacks with everything else too if I remember correctly +1 INT from Konstanteen “massage“ stacked with INT inspirations. Is courtesan buffs stacking also a bug or what ?

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