Politics: The Undiscovered Country

[smjjames]

50 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

mentioned earlier that a whistleblower situation were getting far less attention than it deserved. folks is starting to take notice.

Trump’s communications with foreign leader are part of whistleblower complaint that spurred standoff between spy chief and Congress, former officials say

is similar front headline stories at cnn, msnbc, wall street journal and everywhere o' note... save fox. at fox the headlines is 'bout a homeless man biting a shopkeeper, comey done-bad, grizzly bear attack, and a restaurant in baltimore being targeted for its "racist" dress code which prohibits baggy attire. couple other stories.

HA! Good Fun!

I guess fox doesn't understand the implications of a whistleblower over a promise. Sure, promises are pretty much the bread and butter of politics, but whatever it is, it apparently involves intel (you know, of the cloak and dagger sort) and it was egregious enough that whoever blew the whistle thought it was troubling,

Of course, we don't know who the foreign leader was, which leaves the conspiracy wheels free to spin like crazy.

Edited September 19, 2019 by smjjames
adding quote because new page

[Skarpen]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

mentioned earlier that a whistleblower situation were getting far less attention than it deserved. folks is starting to take notice.

Trump’s communications with foreign leader are part of whistleblower complaint that spurred standoff between spy chief and Congress, former officials say

is similar front headline stories at cnn, msnbc, wall street journal and everywhere o' note... save fox. at fox the headlines is 'bout a homeless man biting a shopkeeper, comey done-bad, grizzly bear attack, and a restaurant in baltimore being targeted for its "racist" dress code which prohibits baggy attire. couple other stories.

HA! Good Fun!

"It was not immediately clear which foreign leader Trump was speaking with or what he pledged to deliver", "It was unclear whether the whistleblower witnessed Trump’s communication with the foreign leader or learned of it through other means."

Top notch journalist, I would go with the homeless guy biting someone as it has more substance. WaPo article is nothing more at this point than fear mongering and story spinning speculation. For example we don't know which leader this is about but the names of Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong Un are dropped while prime minister of the Netherlands is only mentioned by title. Disgusting as WaPo used to have standards. 

As usual fake news media are spiraling in their Trump derangement syndrome about a ghost of a ghost of information and making horrible scenarios out of thin air. It will end the same as "Trump campaign knew about email leak weeks before" or "Trump loans were cosigned by Russians".

[ManifestedISO]

striking thing is the inspector general who deemed the complaint to meet the legal threshold of 'urgent concern' was himself appointed by the president

 

says here ... that legal threshold requires '[a] serious or flagrant problem, abuse, violation of law or Executive order, or deficiency relating to...an intelligence activity involving classified information'

 

so can't just be about Siberian forest fires or 'normalizing relations' with Russia ... more likely the dude promised to out the spy working for us in the Kremlin

 

also I don't have any tattoos, but if I did, I would want the essence of Barry Berke's demeanor in the face of abject stonewalling disdain

[Gromnir]

41 minutes ago, ManifestedISO said:

striking thing is the inspector general who deemed the complaint to meet the legal threshold of 'urgent concern' was himself appointed by the president

 

says here ... that legal threshold requires '[a] serious or flagrant problem, abuse, violation of law or Executive order, or deficiency relating to...an intelligence activity involving classified information'

 

so can't just be about Siberian forest fires or 'normalizing relations' with Russia ... more likely the dude promised to out the spy working for us in the Kremlin

 

yeah, needs be urgent and credible. also, seeing as the director of national intelligence identified "privileged communications" as a reason for withholding info from Congress while simultaneous stating he were acting on behalf o' a "higher authority" by refusing to follow whistleblower reporting requirement law, and list o' possibilities for who is the target o' the whistleblower's concerns shrinks and becomes inherent alarming. thank goodness the ig is doing job, but willingness to do so tends to suggest the magnitude o' urgency and credibility is significant. gonna risk political suicide over marginal calls? 

who gots authority 'bove director and who could possible exercise privilege? subject o' the complaint can't be anybody whom dni intelligence has authority over while nevertheless relating to intelligence matters. ig wouldn't have directed dni to report to intelligence committees if weren't intelligence related. axiomatic. so who could possible set off an ig finding o' urgent and credible related to intelligence matters who is outside and above the dni authority? necessarily talking 'bout an exceeding small group o' people. 

have no certainty at this point 'bout nature o' the incident which caused whistleblower concern save is intelligence related, but as you observe, can't be siberian forest fires.

is hardly realm o' conspiracy theory to look at venn diagram o' potential persons and possible events and be concerned. in fact, to ignore what facts is known is to be requiring a level o' willful obtuseness which is dangerous.

aside: kinda ironic, but if ig hadn't found credible and urgent, the whistleblower could go direct to Congress and would be protected by statute. however, 'cause ig finds credible and urgent, the whistleblower is stuck in legal limbo. is dni job to report findings, but acting dni won't. unknown territory as the notion o' the dni not reporting at all after ig finds urgent and credible no doubt never occured to authors o' statute as being a possibility.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited September 19, 2019 by Gromnir

[Zoraptor]

1 hour ago, ManifestedISO said:

..more likely the dude promised to out the spy working for us in the Kremlin

If that comment is related to the recent news stories of the US exfiltrating a spy from Moscow note that while the story broke in the last week or so- slightly suspiciously timing, in retrospect, since it's very easy to draw a straight line between the two- that agent was exfilled in June, 2017. So definitely not an urgent issue in 2019 and he cannot have been burned in a conversation on July 31st of this year.

On the more general level, one of the most common complaints about Trump is that he has zero interest in briefings and details and wants everything to be as short and simple as possible. Him leaking details is unlikely, as he's unlikely to get or ask for the details in the first place. Making ludicrous promises though, sure, that's perfectly in his nature.

[Malcador]

5 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

On the more general level, one of the most common complaints about Trump is that he has zero interest in briefings and details and wants everything to be as short and simple as possible. Him leaking details is unlikely, as he's unlikely to get or ask for the details in the first place. Making ludicrous promises though, sure, that's perfectly in his nature.

Still could leak details, maybe his staff adapted and made powerpoint slides with one item. 

At least we have drama in Canada now - https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-brownface-arabian-nights-1.5289165

So I guess Trudeau's David Duke in disguise or something, or a Nazi as Volo knew all along.  Sort of funny that this may end up do more damage to him than the SNC Lavalin scandal.  Then again, his competition is Scheer and Singh.

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Malcador

[smjjames]

6 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

If that comment is related to the recent news stories of the US exfiltrating a spy from Moscow note that while the story broke in the last week or so- slightly suspiciously timing, in retrospect, since it's very easy to draw a straight line between the two- that agent was exfilled in June, 2017. So definitely not an urgent issue in 2019 and he cannot have been burned in a conversation on July 31st of this year.

On the more general level, one of the most common complaints about Trump is that he has zero interest in briefings and details and wants everything to be as short and simple as possible. Him leaking details is unlikely, as he's unlikely to get or ask for the details in the first place. Making ludicrous promises though, sure, that's perfectly in his nature.

Would definetly be nice if they could rule out Putin though, if only to nip that particular conspiracy wheel in the bud.

@Skarpen: You left out the PM of Pakistan (Imran Khan) and the Emir of Qatar (Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani). Named for your benefit Don't know why Putin and Kim Jong-Un were name dropped while the others weren't.

Edited September 19, 2019 by smjjames

[Skarpen]

1 hour ago, smjjames said:

@Skarpen: You left out the PM of Pakistan (Imran Khan) and the Emir of Qatar (Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani). Named for your benefit Don't know why Putin and Kim Jong-Un were name dropped while the others weren't.

Of course we know why, because those names will put Trump in a bad light 

Don't get me wrong the lead is interesting and worth pursuing for any journalist, but is right now no material to report. 

[Gromnir]

yeah,  trump revealing intelligence details would be completely out of character.

oh, wait...

Exclusive: US extracted top spy from inside Russia in 2017

location o' nuke submarines off coast o' north korea shared with duterte, and details 'bout manchester bombing in 2017 is the kinda out-of-character stuff which couldn't possible happen.

intelligence folks tell trump important stuff, and while he no doubt ignores most, he is also a braggart. what little sticks in his memory in spite o' his extreme short attention span is in danger o' being spewed out at any time. am suspecting is akin to celebrity name dropping? gets on the phone (or into the freaking oval office) with ________ and he needs impress on 'em how important he is. am doubting xi or putin is gonna be moved by trump sharing the names o' models he pu$$y grabbed, so he tailors to his audience? 

regardless, am current having no certainty 'bout the nature o' the info revealed, but by necessity, the number o' persons the whistleblower complaint could apply to is small, and the individuals who could have authority over the dni so as to prevent him from complying with the statute reporting demands is even smaller. fact dni is withholding from Congress complete (no attempt to tailor info so as to comply with statute and protect sources) is unique. and what constitutes possible intelligence which would be o' an urgent nature from ig perspective and coulda' been mishandled by somebody not under the authority o' the dni is necessarily disturbing.

regardless, am thinking it would be foolish to assume trump can't be involved in the leaking o' vital intelligence... seeing as how similar has happened at least a couple times previous. if we know 'bout sub location snafu and the oval office blunder, is hard to imagine those were only such intelligence missteps by trump. both involved details.

HA! Good Fun!

[smjjames]

56 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

details 'bout manchester bombing in 2017

Wasn't it the FBI that leaked the details and not Trump himself? I don't recall Trump getting the blame for that particular incident.

[Skarpen]

25 minutes ago, smjjames said:

Wasn't it the FBI that leaked the details and not Trump himself? I don't recall Trump getting the blame for that particular incident.

Shush, you will trigger him into another rant. 

[Gromnir]

24 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

Shush, you will trigger him into another rant. 

hardly. were not necessarily fbi. in fact, probable weren't fbi. were a leak to nyt, likely by admin. trump admin.

even so, is a reason we left off manchester at end of our post

"regardless, am thinking it would be foolish to assume trump can't be involved in the leaking o' vital intelligence... seeing as how similar has happened at least a couple times previous. if we know 'bout sub location snafu and the oval office blunder, is hard to imagine those were only such intelligence missteps by trump. both involved details."

if removal o' manchester as certain helps, feel free to do so. we weren't wholly convinced either, which is why we left absent in closing.

absence o' manchester doesn't change fact trump personal has divulged intelligence in the past.

'course blunt folks often miss forest for trees. am thinking we had this discussion a few posts previous. clear ain't making progress.

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

So.. whose more 'racist'? Trump or Trudeau?

 

Trudeau is a turd. We all know if a Liberal lemming got caught doing this, Turdboy would have dumped them so fast.

 

The guy is racist, sexist, Nazism, andti free speech, anti freedom, pure and evil .

 

P.S. If Trudeau got his way, what I just wrote is worthy of me being inprisoned for a billion years. That is how anti free speech he is.

[Zoraptor]

I doubt Trump burned Smolenkov, given the timings that story was released now so people would draw a line between that and the current complaint. The SVR has been very successful in penetrating US intelligence apparatus and it's more likely he was pulled due to that. Details of high level spies (albeit this guy wasn't high level, he was mid to low) are- well, should always be- obfuscated from everyone except their handler(s) and if Russia isn't presuming that the US has spies in its government then Putin never worked for the KGB and has everyone using typewriters because of a love of retro tech.

Wouldn't be the first time either, there was also that 'Israeli' spy who had to be extracted from ISIS due to Trump as well- who was actually a Jordanian spy whose reports Israel was reading and who panicked after the press exposure.

Blatant lying seems to be flavour of the day though, Saudis misidentifying weaponry used on the attacks on their refinery too; Quds-1 missiles as Ya Alis (kind of lol, since the Iranian missile they resemble is the Soumar rather than the Ya Ali, presume they picked the YA because it's got a sectarian name and shorter range) and claiming the Houthis don't have the type of drone used which they have used, in an attack everyone accepted came from them. Then Putin offers to sell them S400, which would be only a bit less useless against drones and cruise missiles than Patriots are. More expensive than the Pantsirs which would be useful though, and Saudi princes love the shiny.

[Malcador]

1 hour ago, Volourn said:

So.. whose more 'racist'? Trump or Trudeau?

 

Trudeau is a turd. We all know if a Liberal lemming got caught doing this, Turdboy would have dumped them so fast.

 

The guy is racist, sexist, Nazism, andti free speech, anti freedom, pure and evil .

 

P.S. If Trudeau got his way, what I just wrote is worthy of me being inprisoned for a billion years. That is how anti free speech he is.

Eh, not sure he is racist (well some Albertans probably think he hates white people). Near 20 years, so people change.  That noodle Singh is trying to play that up, but really he is coming across as injured more than irate.

Who are you going to vote for anyway, Volo? I may vote Rhino

Edited September 19, 2019 by Malcador

[smjjames]

19 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Eh, not sure he is racist (well some Albertans probably think he hates white people). Near 20 years, so people change.  That noodle Singh is trying to play that up, but really he is coming across as injured more than irate.

Who are you going to vote for anyway, Volo? I may vote Rhino

Not Trudeau, that much is clear to me. No idea who the other two mentioned are, so, no clue who he might go for. Though from the earlier post, they sound like weaksauce challengers.

[Volourn]

None. Haven't voted in awhile. I used to be  pro liberal but they are scum.  If I did vote, it be for the PCs just to see the PC police cry all while they support a clear racist, sexist abusive punk because they see him as 'hot'. *barf*

[Gromnir]

4 hours ago, Volourn said:

So.. whose more 'racist'? Trump or Trudeau?

 

Trudeau is a turd. We all know if a Liberal lemming got caught doing this, Turdboy would have dumped them so fast.

 

The guy is racist, sexist, Nazism, andti free speech, anti freedom, pure and evil .

 

P.S. If Trudeau got his way, what I just wrote is worthy of me being inprisoned for a billion years. That is how anti free speech he is.

worse case scenario for trudeau is he photoshops in a confederate flag or two behind him in those pictures and after moving to alabama or mississippi and meeting residency requirements he runs for state office.  becomes representative or even senator. 

problem solved for trudeau... and kanada.

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

This thread is becoming depressing. Obsidianites wishing everyone dead. Trumps shenanigans which went from entertaining, to disturbing to... whatever is  now. Add to that the fact that the next President will either wreck the economy, feel up the interns, provoke a civil war, or be Donald Trump and we've got a lot to drink about.

So, here is a little humor to lighten the mood

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by Guard Dog

[Gromnir]

14 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

This thread is becoming depressing. Obsidianites wishing everyone dead. Trumps shenanigans which went from entertaining, to disturbing to... whatever is  now. Add to that the fact that the next President will either wreck the economy, feel up the interns, provoke a civil war, or be Donald Trump and we've got a lot to drink about.

So, here is a little humor to lighten the mood

image

always liked the following image for odin/othinn/grimnir/whatever

god of carrion for President? why not? no $1000 or tax-the-rich nonsense. run on a simple platform:

"i want your corpse, and no matter what you do, i am going to get it. i would prefer that you die in agony, but it doesn't matter in the end. vote republican? doesn't matter. vote democrat? doesn't matter. don't vote? doesn't matter. i only promise death, but under my administration you will have an opportunity to live and breed and suffer. give me suffering and you will prosper. give me death and you will prosper.  let's make valhalla great again."

HA! Good Fun!

 

[smjjames]

Thor is the one known for having a beef with giants though, not sure if he had a particular thing against ice giants. Would probably fit the sillyness better too.

@gromnir? Eh? Just because he had two crows (or ravens) as scouts doesn't make him a god of carrion.

The image does look slightly ominous/mysterious though.

Edited September 20, 2019 by smjjames

[Gromnir]

6 minutes ago, smjjames said:

Thor is the one known for having a beef with giants though, not sure if he had a particular thing against ice giants. Would probably fit the sillyness better too.

@gromnir? Eh? Just because he had two crows (or ravens) as scouts doesn't make him a god of carrion.

The image does look slightly ominous/mysterious though.

not just 'cause o' ravens. wolves and ravens were chosen symbols 'cause they were the critters which would pick over the corpses o' battlefields. odin were god o' all kinda stuff, but most especial carrion. read your prose and poetic edda. ain't like comic book odin. gaiman actual does a fair job. odin were a bad dude.

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

Norse mythology was never my thing. The Greek pantheon was always more interesting. They got into trouble and had fun. Plus there is a lot more info about them thanks to Homer and others having a written language.   

[smjjames]

I wasn't thinking of the comics, it's just that the ravens are the more well known rather than the wolves. There's also the valkyries, who were heavily, if not directly, associated with Odin.

 

[Gromnir]

10 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Norse mythology was never my thing. The Greek pantheon was always more interesting. They got into trouble and had fun. Plus there is a lot more info about them thanks to Homer and others having a written language.   

greeks were a little less fatalistic, which am sposing were result o' mediterranean climate and general abundance compared to conditions further north. "capricious" would be understatement for greeks. clash of the titans movies left out the story o' how zeus and danaë met, and for good reason. 

we do recommend 

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/37903770-norse-mythology

prose and poetic edda is kinda brutal reads.

@smjjames

keep in mind the valkyries would pick warriors who died in battle to go to valhalla. is actual only a single line which describes method o' choosing, but die in battle gets possible valhalla, while die o' sickness or old age gets hel. odin don't care if you were greatest warrior all-time. don't care if you won wars and battles too many to count. is not a war god in traditional sense. is the death which surrounds war, is the carrion o' the battlefield which is odin's purview. 

admitted, is not easy to pigeonhole odin. magic and runes and wisdom and carrion and... whatever.

HA! Good Fun!