[MECHANICS] Various Testing

[thelee]

On 6/1/2022 at 8:08 PM, NotDumbEnough said:

Despite being foe only, Tekehu's Frost Wall will break stealth on party members that walk through it. There's no attack roll but you break stealth anyways. Other spells like his Chill Fog don't behave like this.

it seems like the internal distinction is that walls are hazards and are kind of "detached" from the character who cast it in many ways. weird

[NotDumbEnough]

 

Apparently ranged weapon bounces can go through walls.

 

Also found out something useful: The Death Guard Fanatic in this crypt actually has an Exceptional War Bow as his secondary weapon. The fight is much easier if he switches to this weapon as most of his abilities are close range only.

[Kaylon]

I discovered recently that Xefa's Empirical Explication can add up to 12 resonance stacks per attack - it can proc knock back and prone on crit which are also considered weapon attacks (and can also trigger Avenging Storm). 

FF monks using WotW can use blunderbuss + melee weapon to gain easily 2 hostile effects (Powder Burns + Unwieldly from Hilea's Talons). With 30+ resolve, Ring of Solitary Wanderer, Strand of Favor and Clarity of Agony their durations is close to 2s and you can generate wounds between two WotW.

[NotDumbEnough]

Are you sure full attacks work with ranged+melee? For most rogue full attacks at least, dual wielding ranged and melee means you will only ever use one of them.

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, NotDumbEnough said:

Are you sure full attacks work with ranged+melee? For most rogue full attacks at least, dual wielding ranged and melee means you will only ever use one of them.

Whirling Strikes, Heart of Fury and WotW let you attack with both hands, whatever you hold. That's why Whirling Strikes can be used with a ranged weapon in left hand and even benefits from Driving Flight.

[Boeroer]

Barbaric Retaliation, too. 

[Not So Clever Hound]

Probably well known but... when you first arrive at Neketaka you can get the quest Salt in The Wound from Nera Bardatto. There is a repeatable dialog loop that can get you max Honest disposition very very quickly. Just spam left click and space bar. Nice for the right Paladin and/or Priest build.

Also I think I wrote about it before, but there is an infinite (but tedious) XP loop about lockpicking the door to Lueva Alvari's office and getting the Governor Bodyguard in/out of the office (which re-locks the door).

Edited June 12, 2022 by Not So Clever Hound

[NotDumbEnough]

You can also repeatedly refuse to open the cage for Mother Sharp-Rock to lose relationship with Eder really fast for the achievement.

[NotDumbEnough]

 

The combat log actually gives wrong numbers for Run Through's damage over time. It appears it factors in bonuses like Sneak Attack but it is not calculated in the damage the target actually receives.

[thelee]

7 hours ago, NotDumbEnough said:

 

The combat log actually gives wrong numbers for Run Through's damage over time. It appears it factors in bonuses like Sneak Attack but it is not calculated in the damage the target actually receives.

yeah this also happens with DoTs when it comes to PEN. It'll always list full damage, but then if you pay attention to the numbers that appear overhead, they adjust dynamically for PEN. 

[hansvedic]

For a Wizard or Monk multi w/ Barbarian, Druid, or Cipher for Changeling's Mantle, their special summons (Dichotomous Soul and the Phantom summons) do cause another "Pelt of Many Kinds" beast to appear. It seems like resummoning won't change the summon's beast, though.

Also, this is probably already well-known, but Helm of the White Void + single-weapon summon of Concelhaut's draining touch + Phantom summon = great accuracy on the phantom's attack. This can be combined with the Changeling's Mantle benefit for potentially even more accuracy.

EDIT: Even more reason to consider running a sorceror now... XD

Edited July 23, 2022 by hansvedic

[Boeroer]

4 hours ago, hansvedic said:

Also, this is probably already well-known, but Helm of the White Void + single-weapon summon of Concelhaut's draining touch + Phantom summon = great accuracy on the phantom's attack.

This also works with Caedebald's Blackbow (auto-terrify on the weapon attack which unlocks the +10 ACC). You can build a really good Warbow-Wizard double team (with the Phantom) with this. 

[hansvedic]

On 5/28/2021 at 5:21 AM, Elric Galad said:

Thank you !

Exactly

I haven't noticed any discrepancy between damages actually done and damages recovered, so all modifiers are taken into account.

By the way, apparently, Unbending has no effect Vs DoT (I guess Pulsating spells do work).

So MIG (might) actually has no effect on Unbending’s healing? I just want to confirm this.

[NotDumbEnough]

No. Only healing received has an effect.

 

Note that Fighter's Take the Hit DOES work against damage over time. One good combo is a single class Fighter and a single class Paladin in the same party. The Fighter soaks up half the self-damage from the Paladin's self-immolation ability, and with the appropriate upgrade the Paladin can also immediately help the Fighter heal it back for net gain of HP.

[hansvedic]

On 7/24/2022 at 7:00 PM, NotDumbEnough said:

No. Only healing received has an effect.

 

Note that Fighter's Take the Hit DOES work against damage over time. One good combo is a single class Fighter and a single class Paladin in the same party. The Fighter soaks up half the self-damage from the Paladin's self-immolation ability, and with the appropriate upgrade the Paladin can also immediately help the Fighter heal it back for net gain of HP.

So a fighter with base might heals the same from Unbending as a fighter with max might. Interesting.

 

Also, trying to remember… does Lingering Echoes (cipher passive) work with afflictions from other classes? In short, if a Cipher/Druid casts the petrify spell that Druids have, will Lingering Echoes affect it? If so, what about when you also have Lasting Empower (base game not modded)?

[Boeroer]

6 hours ago, hansvedic said:

In short, if a Cipher/Druid casts the petrify spell that Druids have, will Lingering Echoes affect it? If so, what about when you also have Lasting Empower (base game not modded)?

Yes, it works (Cipher/Forbidden Fist can reach very long durations that way by combining +10 INT, Enfeebled and Lingering Echoes). Should stack with Lasting Empower. 

[Elric Galad]

On 3/28/2022 at 6:11 PM, Elric Galad said:

Confouding Blind deflection malus is actually a sub effect of the blind condition.

Same for Perishing Strike Enfeebled, which only happens if the target was initial Weakened.

Against anything with a mere CON resistance, Persihing strike has exactly the same effect as Withering Strike, not even an Enfeebled reduced to Weakened after the initial duration.

The is... meh

[Elric Galad]

Cipher passive Echoing Horror is... errr... a passive, so its Frightened affliction stacks with everything.

Of course, it will get replaced or will replace other RES affliction, but a pure RES debuff (such as Psychovampiric Shield) will stack for a total of -15 Resolve debuff.

 

Note : I don't think it makes the ability broken because of its marginal use, but BPM will make it never stacks for the sake of consistency.

In exchange, I will buff it to 20s duration. It is a Tier 7 so hard to pick for MC anyway (Ancestor Memory being so juicy, few room for it). And its random targetting deserves a bit of reward. In addition, as a passive, its duration isn't affected by Power Level...

 

Also worths noticing that about all On Kill effects works on friendly targets in spite of their description. This is well known for barbarian's but it also applies to Echoing Horror and Inspiring Triumph.

(Community Patch Virtuous Triumph does not but it is explicit in the mod notes - and probably justified)

Finally, Echoing Horror and Evasive Fire basically applies their effect to a random target within 10m radius (probably buffed by INT) of the caster.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Elric Galad

[Constentin Lévine]

On 9/27/2022 at 9:35 AM, Elric Galad said:

Cipher passive Echoing Horror is... errr... a passive, so its Frightened affliction stacks with everything.

Of course, it will get replaced or will replace other RES affliction, but a pure RES debuff (such as Psychovampiric Shield) will stack for a total of -15 Resolve debuff.

Afflictions from weapon also stack with everything (in the same way that Echoing Horror do), I found that is a good usage of stacking rules knowledge to use it, dont you?

Edited September 30, 2022 by Constentin Lévine

[Not So Clever Hound]

Several things probably known to many already, but just for the sake of being exhaustive:

I just discovered that Gilded Enmity and Ironskin are even better than I thought: they will literally only break after respectively 5 and 10 Hits. Grazes are not considered and count the same as Misses. This is very good in conjunction with a high defenses build - your armor bonus can virtually last forever even if you keep getting Grazed. However, incoming Hits that are Resisted (e.g. via Medium Shield modal or Uncanny Luck) will still register as Hits. In other words if you resist 10 Hits, you will still lose Ironskin (on the 11th Hit).

As stated earlier in this thread, Gilded Enmity is still pretty nice even for an Arcane Knight, because it can be cast out of combat if there is a destructible item around, like a barrel, and the AR bonus will last indefinitely until hit 5 times in your next encounter or until this next encounter ends, which is very good particularly in the early game (Beach Cave and Dig Site).

On the flip side, Wizard's Double is not as good as I thought before actually testing it thoroughly, because it will disappear if any incoming attack reaches you (not only Hits targeting Deflection but any non-Miss targeting any defense like Fortitude, Reflex and Will). So in practice, unless you can make sure that all your defenses give a net -76 malus versus the highest enemy Accuracy, you will still have a chance of losing the buff - and even if you're virtually untouchable, you can still face a lot of autohit abilities, Fighters with Confident Aim, etc.

Wizard's Double can still be useful in combination with Mirrored Images or Arcane Veil, to respectively get more longevity from Mirrored Image or as a backup against veil piercing attacks... if you can spare the Tier 1 cast. But personally I would rather always cast Chill Fog or Slicken instead.

[thelee]

something i discovered with my last run, which was using Effort + Avenging Storm at times. Pollen Patch is weird. It triggers the inspiration bonuses of Ring of Clenched Muscle (10% chance when hit with a weapon to get an inspiration). I swear I didn't have Effort equipped at the time, which is the main way I would trigger fake weapon attacks, so the periodic healing effect on yourself must count as a weapon attack each time. It also meant that when I would empower Pollen Patch with my least unstable coil, i'd frequently get a jumble of Tier 1 and Tier 3 inspirations (though the Tier 3 ones would override the Tier 1 if they were the same).

I wonder if you could trigger other "hit by a weapon" effects with Pollen Patch?

Edited January 3, 2023 by thelee

[Not So Clever Hound]

The request is blocked.

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[Not So Clever Hound]

Sorry for the weird post above. I'm experimenting. I'm trying to post a simple message but I keep getting this error message and I don't know why.

EDIT: I've come across a very interesting synergistic bug between Cape of the Falling Star and Akola's Apex Ward. The Cape has a Burn or Crush AoE on Unconscious that has a +10 ACC, a +50% DMG and a +2.5 PEN built-in from item scaling I guess (maybe from BPM?). Those bonuses buggily (I guess) benefit the Hard Counter procs of Akola's Apex Ward.

So you get a riposte-type counter that has 15% or 25% chance to trigger on being missed in melee, that does an Interrupt and thanks to this interaction, some pretty good damage (my Akola's Apex Ward is upgraded to Mythic).

I might test later when I have time, but I wonder if the Fiery Descent interaction can be used more broadly with other Riposte effects, with or without Akola's Apex Ward. Anyway, that is certainly not Effort with Hemorrhaging and Avenging Storm level, but still, that made me happy.

 

EDIT #2: So sorry again for the weird formatting but I was trying to figure out why the forum was filtering out my post. Turns out it was because of the acronym I typed for Cape Of The Falling Star..

Some real weird stuff going on on this forum lately.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Not So Clever Hound

[Elric Galad]

1 hour ago, Not So Clever Hound said:

Sorry for the weird post above. I'm experimenting. I'm trying to post a simple message but I keep getting this error message and I don't know why.

EDIT: I've come across a very interesting synergistic bug between Cape of the Falling Star and Akola's Apex Ward. The Cape has a Burn or Crush AoE on Unconscious that has a +10 ACC, a +50% DMG and a +2.5 PEN built-in from item scaling I guess (maybe from BPM?). Those bonuses buggily (I guess) benefit the Hard Counter procs of Akola's Apex Ward.

So you get a riposte-type counter that has 15% or 25% chance to trigger on being missed in melee, that does an Interrupt and thanks to this interaction, some pretty good damage (my Akola's Apex Ward is upgraded to Mythic).

I might test later when I have time, but I wonder if the Fiery Descent interaction can be used more broadly with other Riposte effects, with or without Akola's Apex Ward. Anyway, that is certainly not Effort with Hemorrhaging and Avenging Storm level, but still, that made me happy.

 

EDIT #2: So sorry again for the weird formatting but I was trying to figure out why the forum was filtering out my post. Turns out it was because of the acronym I typed for Cape Of The Falling Star..

Some real weird stuff going on on this forum lately.

I confirm the +10 ACC, a +50% DMG and a +2.5 PEN to Cape of the Falling Star is from BPM. It comes from scaling at character level 20.

I confirm the +10 ACC, a +50% DMG and a +2.5 PEN to Apex Ward is from BPM and is 100% intentional and is supposed to be exactly the same bonus as Cape of the Falling Star. What happens exactly is listed as a warning about BPM scaling : 

Warnings :
- If several items from the following lists are equipped simultanneously, the bonus above will appear as being applied by the first one. However, all the equipped items of the following lists will benefit from it, so this is only a change in the combat logs.

 

You can unequip them and equip them in a different order, you will see Apex giving its bonus to the Cape this time.

 

It works like this because implementing different scaling effects would have been horribly more tedious (and the scaling implementation was already quite tedious to implement and test...).

All in all, you're legitimately happy about this. Hard Counter damages would be only 7 PEN without this change. There is a reason why I added scaling to all items passive attacks.

[Not So Clever Hound]

1 hour ago, Elric Galad said:

All in all, you're legitimately happy about this. Hard Counter damages would be only 7 PEN without this change. There is a reason why I added scaling to all items passive attacks.

Ah ok, thanks Eric. I promise I read the BPM change logs, but I must have skipped the order-of-equip disclaimer. Still, indeed it makes Hard Counter decent. I'm an imbécile heureux.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Not So Clever Hound