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Hello everyone.

This is my first post on this forum, I hope to find the help I need and maybe some interesting discussion.

I was wondering how an optimal party of player-created mercenaries would look, something built to tackle the highest difficulties of the game (Expert Mode, Trial of Iron, Path of the Damned).

I was thinking of creating a party which would look probably like this:

  • Main Tank > Fighter;
  • Off-tank > Chanter;
  • Support > Priest;
  • Ranged DPS 1 > Rogue;
  • Ranged DPS 2 > Wizard;
  • Ranged DPS 3 > Cipher.

Problem is, I don't know how to build them.

Can you help me build this party?

Thank you in advance for your help.

PS: I would like to keep the "classic core" of the party as it is (fighter-priest-rogue-wizard), but I'm open to discuss possible variations (I've heard that Paladins > Fighters as main tanks).

Edit: if it's possible I would like to employ for this party six different classes; I don't really like the idea of having to rely on a party of characters all using the same class.

Edited by diazexmachina

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Chanter subs for fighter as main tank. Big shield, max MIG, CON and INT, dump DEX. Later also becomes your highest DPS with Dragon Thrashed. Can also be your traps and locks guy with Mechanics investment.

Firebrand Barbarian as your melee DPS. Not an offtank (you don't really need one), just wade in after the Chanter and clean house. Max MIG and INT, as much DEX and PER as you are willing to go from reducing CON and RES. 2 handed weapons all the way, primarily Firebrand.

Then take Priest for buffs and radiance; ranged Cipher for crowd control; and Wizard for blasting or whatever else you want him to do.  DEX and INT are key for all these roles, PER as well for Cipher and Wizard (buffing Priest doesn't need it though).

Final character can be what you want. You could go Paladin for second tank and to help out teammates; Druid for more spell carnage; Rogue if you want another melee DPS/assassin, or anything else you fancy.

You get full variety party this way, including traditional roles (albeit chanter subs for fighter and cipher subs for rogue).

To be fair the Chanter can carry the party alone for large parts. A full customised party of 6 is overkill. If you look at the no-reload thread, you will see players with only a few weeks experience have beaten PotD without reloads quite easily and multiple times, with some people even doing additional variant challenges (such as no knockouts).

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Most characters cover multiple roles, especially when the AI was tweaked so they go for weaker characters and dont just try to slug it out with your tank hence pure tanks dont really work well these days, they need to do damage/CC/support to.

All of a fighters CC is "prone" which isn't a great option especially as most is on melee hits (nevermind if they're immune) so only negative to disengaging him is if he has good damage.  Only other way he can help others is "take the hit" but if squishies are being hit its either too late or better things you can do.  I think fighters make better DPS that can be quite tanky due to ignoring armour attack speed penalties.

A paladin on the other hand has a lot of aoe buffs, healing, reviving etc that can be very helpful when one mistake could end your save.  If want to engage more can use a weapons with guarding like shatterstar or the talent.

Chanter can make a good tank with a big shield and just letting chants and invocations do the damage or support.  Can add CC, damage, heals/buffs or summon things to help tank and do damage.  They can be a bit squishy and short of health early on but just load up on defensive talents and buff him with paladin and/or cipher and/or priest whilst he chants and gets to invocation you want, don't really care if he can hit anything with his weapon (spell holding + art boost is handy) so can lower dex as it doesnt affect chants.

Personally i prefer more than 2 melee characters, even if its a rangers pet helping as the 3rd or maybe a priest who has some good short range tank spells.  Could also be more a DPS fighter, barbarian etc who have some survivability but can engage and chew through the target. Im not experienced with melee wizards or ciphers, I typically prefer a Druid rather than wizard so I have lots of choice of spells but who can then spirit shift if needed and smash the few that sneak through or transported past the tanks like spirits.  Once druid + priest buffs everyone, the cipher + druid debuff enemies the druid can spirit shift and charge in with a paladin aoe support and chanters aoe chipping away. 

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Your "offtank" chanter has might of 2? Not sure what the point of him is, there's better pure support classes.  At very least put con+per back to normal levels and increase might, perc doesnt need to be so high for spells. Might is needed for healing, as chanter doesnt have many ways to increase his tankyness he needs all the healing he can get.  I'd recommend "chillfog" or "drake ambassador" for offtank, both heal and do damage but different methods with slightly different secondary focus (cc vs summons). 

Won't repeat myself too much but I dislike that use of fighter, I think your front 3 lack damage setup that way. So many abilities for engagement which really isn't effective CC.  I'd let the chanter be the main tank adding some aoe DMG, healing and cc/summon plus the paladin tanking, buffing and supporting. That leaves the fighter to be more DPS build that can wear plate so tanky.

If taking "inspired flame" for priest that IMO for the accuracy bonus as the DMG is to all in aoe so will nuke your own squishies unless you have him running into enemies solo.  Hence either replace it if you dont care about his weapon damage or swap addition spells for weapon focus.

Only 10 might on your DPS rogue?

Wizard I'd focus give more perception and Gyrd Háewanes Sténes not for damage but for cc without having to spell cast.  I'd avoid the missile spells, there damage falls off a lot vs DR and many have pierce DR.  I'd take more burst DMG, debuff/cc and self buff spells.

Edited by summatsupeer

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On 5/20/2019 at 1:32 AM, diazexmachina said:

I was wondering how an optimal party of player-created mercenaries would look, something built to tackle the highest difficulties of the game (Expert Mode, Trial of Iron, Path of the Damned).

After hundreds of hours played in PoE1 (on PotD difficulty), my favorite party composition is:
- frontline: chanter (dragon-thrashed dmg, offtank), paladin (main-tank, support), wizard (offtank, cc)
- midline: firepriest
- backline: cipher (cc + dps), cipher (dps + cc)

You get high damage and good dps (both targeted and AoE), lots of crowd-control and buffs, sturdy frontline, enough healing, and the ability to deal with most combat encounters using different strategies.

Edited by MaxQuest

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1 minute ago, MaxQuest said:

After hundreds of hours played in PoE1 (on PotD difficulty), my favorite party is:
- frontline: chanter (dragon-thrashed dmg, offtank), paladin (main-tank, support), wizard (offtank, cc)
- midline: firepriest
- backline: cipher (cc + dps), cipher (dps + cc)

You get high damage and good dps (both targeted and AoE), lots of crowd-control and buffs, sturdy frontline, enough healing, and the ability to deal with most combat encounters using different strategies.

Interesting, but I'd like to focus on the "classic core" composition of the party (fighter/priest/rogue/wizard) for my first PotD. I also don't really enjoy the idea of using a single class more than once. But thanks for your answer, it was interesting to know that at least three of my six future character could be a good choice for the party.

Now let me ask: is there no chance at all that a party with a more "classic" composition could work in PotD?

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Since the game can be soloed on PotD, technically any class combination will work.

I've just posted one, that felt most comfortable and strong (over the course of full game) for me.



Now, if you want fighter, priest, mage, rogue; that's not a problem. Just keep in mind that:
- rogue: has high single-target dps, but lacks AoE. And there are many enemies on PotD, so your rogue might get a little envy on dragon-thrashed chanter. Also rogues are a bit squishy, and at the same time have hard time cc'ing an enemy that has jumped on them or another squishy. I.e. they require babysitting, or positioning micro.
- fighter: fighter can be durable as a wall. But it matters little if the rest of the party is dead. And unfortunately a fighter can't support/heal his party like a paladin can. Because of that, it makes sense to shift the fighter from pure tank to a tanky-dps role; because a good frontliner must be able to do something besides just tanking.


So:
- frontline: chanter (offtank, dragon-thrashed), fighter (dw mainset / 1h+shield in offset), wizard (cc, offtank)
- midline: priest (firepriest for mainly damage, or Andrea's "How I Buffed The Others" for mainly support), druid (relentless storm + hots + dots, offtank)
- backline: rogue (Persistence bow)


For fighter, check Tank of Pain.
For druid, check Batsh!t crazy. Note: druid is there not to deal physical damage, but first of all for extra sustain via aoe stuns and hots.
For wizard, you can go for 2/13/15/20/18/10 wild orlan. And he is there to protect your priest and rogue; and contribute with Slicken/Shadowflame (preventively, since those his everyone) and also Gaze of Adragan/Confusion/Call To Slumber/Dimensional Shift.

P.S. If you take firepriest go for a moon godlike with: Swaddling Sheet, Shod-in-Faith, Hide -> Raiment of Wael's Eyes, and Gyrd Haewanes / Abydon's Hammer.

Edited by MaxQuest

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Thanks MaxQuest, looks like a fine party that you have mentioned.

Just one question: do you think it is possible to swap the druid for a paladin, bringing the wizard to the midline and making the paladin my main tank?

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^ It is possible. 

And it will even make your early game stronger, because LoH is really handy.

But in mid-late game, druid might have an upper hand, due to AoE stuns and healing over time. And DoTs for the fights when you don't want to conservate resources.

Ideally I would swap the fighter for paladin... :)

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1 minute ago, MaxQuest said:

Ideally I would swap the fighter for paladin

You're not the first to tell me such thing, but I really want a fighter in my composition...

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Ok, so after hearing helpful tips from others on other platforms, I've decided to change the layout of the party a bit.

Now it would look like this:

  • Paladin Main Tank;
  • Chanter Off-tank;
  • Fighter Melee DPS;
  • Priest Support;
  • Rogue Ranged DPS;
  • Wizard Ranged Controller.

What do you think, could it work?

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Yup. Just some more tipps:

Don't restrict your Wizard to CC only. Also give him some damaging spells he can use after applying CC. On PotD there are lots of enemies so every source of AoE dmg you can have is good.

Your weak links are Fighter and Rogue. You want to bring Fighter, so ok. If you are not insisting on Rogue (single target dmg only) I would vote for a Druid or a Cipher. Both have incredibly useful abilities compared to the "single target dmg only" rogue and both can do great single target dmg as well should you need it. 

But this party composition you have there def. works as well.


Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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I'm taking in consideration the possibility of having a more "open" approach about classes, and don't limit the party build around the "classic core". That would give me a very wide range of options, building the team around the main character instead of building everything around four characters.

Now the only question is: what kind of character would I like to play? Which class is absolutely needed in any functioning party?

I'm thinking about priest or wizard, those two seem to be the most important party members of any party.

Do you guys have any suggestion?

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Firstly I agree that your group can work if built and used right, but your two main "DPS" are single target and don't really add anything else.  They also don't have any really interesting combinations, like a Cipher could have with applying Ectopsychic Echo power to a Fighter who charges in or in late game giving blades to feed the ciphers focus.

I think one of:

  • Paladin Main Tank + Support;
  • Chanter Off-tank; (Dragon / Chillfog)
  • Priest Support (with some fire Dmg + CC);

I think this is a great "core" to the group, they all heal (Chanter passively AOE), 2 are tanks and if needed later on the Priest can self buff to go melee to.  Paladin and Priest buff the team plus can chip in with some decent damage due to high might which the Chanter can also do due to AOE true damage to chip away and to get to invocations quickly.  I'd pick one of these to play, Might and Int are good for interactions which should be maxed on all 3 IMO.

The other 3 need to add Debuffs and Dmg, plus maybe some more CC so Priest doesn't have to spend too many spells doing it and Chanter won't have Invocations (or wants to save for better ones).

Personally i'd have Fighter OR Rogue, both are single target damage and whilst Rogue has some abilities to proc there Sneak Attack neither really has AOE Debuffs or CC which puts a lot on that final member.

I'd take 2 of Cipher, Druid and Wizard.  All are flexible and able to Debuff, CC and do damage through different methods depending what is needed at the time.  Then the 3rd can be a pure damage role, Fighter, Rogue, Ranger, Barb etc.  If taking a Rogue i'd also pay attention to who can help proc the Sneak Attack passive.

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Don't forget that Priests can actually be very potent damage dealers. Stuff like Shining Beacon with lots of MIG and INT is devastating.

If you are not against using two of one class (in different roles): Inspiring Radiance stacks with everything, even itself. So bringing two Priests can give you +20 ACC for all your opening volleys (be it damage or CC) in every encounter. Then one can cast Blessing and the other Devotions at the same time and the whole pary suddenly has +45 accuracy for debuffing, lowering enemies defenses - lkeading to even more "virtual" accuracy and melting foes with the final damage dealing stuff.

 


Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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1 hour ago, summatsupeer said:
  • Paladin Main Tank + Support;
  • Chanter Off-tank; (Dragon / Chillfog)
  • Priest Support (with some fire Dmg + CC);

The priest would be built for the frontline? A "classic" melee priest? Because I like this idea.

1 hour ago, summatsupeer said:

I'd take 2 of Cipher, Druid and Wizard.  All are flexible and able to Debuff, CC and do damage through different methods depending what is needed at the time.  Then the 3rd can be a pure damage role, Fighter, Rogue, Ranger, Barb etc.

A backline made up of Cipher, Druid, and Ranger could be interesting, mainly because I'm not playing these classes in my normal playthrough.

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36 minutes ago, diazexmachina said:

The priest would be built for the frontline? A "classic" melee priest? Because I like this idea.

Not really front line, you dont want him in heavy plate or will be slow casting and dont want him getting hit by lots.  More a second line who can pick up single enemies that gets past front line.  His main job is still casting buff spells, spells are also how he will do most of his damage and cc.

If you want a Priest front liner I'd probably take two and do like boerer suggested.  Frontliner casts things like minor avator and tries to get tankier and buff whist other casts from second line as more tradition priest casting prayers etc.

Quote

A backline made up of Cipher, Druid, and Ranger could be interesting, mainly because I'm not playing these classes in my normal playthrough.

Depends what builds your thinking really.

Druid can be another second line as a spirit shifter DPS.  I'd probably not have them as a pure spellcaster / ranged damage with those two other two picks.

Cipher has to do damage for focus but then you have lots of choice how to spend it. Great early low focus cost aoe cc options.  Beam is strong damage spell but you lack someone who can get behind opponent groups (and survive) and lack someone who can make good use of the blades late game to build focus.  Has a fee options to buff others/themself, debuff opponents but also some amazing mind control powers.

Rangers pet is another second level type, can't tank a lot but does good damage and buffs ranger. The twin sting or stormcaller type build can do lots of damage plus some cc, especially to enemy soft targets (wizards etc at back).

 

Edited by summatsupeer

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