How is raw Dot damage calculated now in v4.1?

[dunehunter]

Hey guys, just trying to figure out how DoT damages functions now in V4.1, for example the 20% damage as raw for Deep Wounds, is it 20% of the total damage u deals per blow, or does it only include basic damage from weapon (so 18~24 for gsword and 20% x 24 = 4.8 per tick)?

 

Thanks!

 

Edit: also I remember from my old test, some abilities with DoT will stack with itself while others only extend it's duration, for example Rogue ability Deep Wounds will stack while wound enchantment from weapons only extend duration with multiple attacks.

Edited April 11, 2019 by dunehunter

[thelee]

Hey guys, just trying to figure out how DoT damages functions now in V4.1, for example the 20% damage as raw for Deep Wounds, is it 20% of the total damage u deals per blow, or does it only include basic damage from weapon (so 18~24 for gsword and 20% x 24 = 4.8 per tick)?

 

Thanks!

 

Edit: also I remember from my old test, some abilities with DoT will stack with itself while others only extend it's duration, for example Rogue ability Deep Wounds will stack while wound enchantment from weapons only extend duration with multiple attacks.

 

it really depends on the ability (unfortunately).

 

deep wounds i'm pretty sure is the total damage you dealt spread out over the default duration (so intellect bonus and malus can improve or worsen it appropriately).

 

meanwhile, while not a dot, carnage is raw damage that is % of your main hand weapon's base damage.

 

i seem to recall that wounding shot is something super crappy.

 

disintegrate is some funky formula that does damage over duration, but isn't correctly adjusted by might (though it is correctly adjusted by PL and intellect). cleansing flame uses this same formula, though isn't raw damage. (you can tell if it uses this weird formula if instead of telling you damage per tick it gives you a huge number and a duration).

 

none of this is in the combat log unfortunatley, you just have to look at the red numbers appearing over head regularly.

[MaxQuest]

Good question.

 

Unfortunately I can give only a partial answer.

 

First, here's some data from gamedatabundles:

 

 

> Disintegration:

{
  "StatusEffectType": "Damage",
  "OverrideDescriptionString": -1,
  "OverrideDescriptionStringTactical": -1,
  "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "TriggeredChild",
  "BaseValue": 240,
  "Duration": 15,
  "MaxStackQuantity": 0,
  "ApplicationBehavior": "UseLongerDurationIfAlreadyApplied",
  "ApplicationType": "ApplyOverTime"
}

> Deep Wounds:

{
  "StatusEffectType": "Damage",
  "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "None",
  "BaseValue": 0, // it's parent has "BaseValue": 0.2,
  "DurationType": "UseDurationTime",
  "Duration": 6,
  "MaxStackQuantity": 0,
  "ApplicationBehavior": "StackIfAlreadyApplied",
  "ApplicationType": "ApplyOverTime"
}

> Wounding Shot: 

{
  "StatusEffectType": "Damage",
  "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "None",
  "BaseValue": 0, // it's parent has "BaseValue": 0.2,
  "DurationType": "UseDurationTime",
  "Duration": 6,
  "MaxStackQuantity": 0,
  "ApplicationBehavior": "UseLongerDurationIfAlreadyApplied",
  "ApplicationType": "ApplyOverTime"
}

> Bleeding Cuts (Battle Axe): 

{
  "StatusEffectType": "Damage",
  "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "None",
  "BaseValue": 0, // it's parent has "BaseValue": 0.1,
  "DurationType": "UseDurationTime",
  "Duration": 60,
  "MaxStackQuantity": 0,
  "ApplicationBehavior": "StackIfAlreadyApplied",
  "ApplicationType": "ApplyOnTick"
}

> Death of 1000 Cuts (DoT): 

{
  "StatusEffectType": "Damage",
  "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "None",
  "BaseValue": 19,
  "DurationType": "UseDurationTime",
  "Duration": 30,
  "MaxStackQuantity": 0,
  "ApplicationBehavior": "AddDurationIfAlreadyApplied",
  "ApplicationType": "ApplyOnTick"
}

> and Soul Ignition for reference: 

{
  "StatusEffectType": "Damage",
  "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "None",
  "BaseValue": 16,
  "DurationType": "UseDurationTime",
  "Duration": 15,
  "MaxStackQuantity": 0,
  "ApplicationBehavior": "UseLongerDurationIfAlreadyApplied",
  "ApplicationType": "ApplyOnTick"
}

 

 

1). As you can see there are two application types: ApplyOnTick and ApplyOverTime.

The first one applies it's BaseValue (which is also shown in tooltip) every x seconds. While the last one uses BaseValue as base Total damage, and for each tick it divides that value on number of ticks.

I don't know what's the point of this separation yet.

Maybe the idea was for ApplyOverTime to have fixed duration? But afaik they still scale with PL and INT.

Or maybe the idea was to keep Total Damage unaffected by INT? But have to test it.

 

2). Disintegration and Wounding Shot (and perhaps even other "ApplyOverTime" effects as well) where quite bugged on release and for quite awhile. The total damage on grazes was often higher than that on hit. It was fixed later, at least in v4.0 I could no longer replicate that. Although Wounding Shot is still very subpar.

 

3). Few notes on examined DoTs:

 

Disintegration [ApplyOverTime]:

- deals 240 damage over 15s. Unlike in later version of PoE1 it no longer stacks with itself.

 

Deep Wounds [ApplyOverTime]:

- deals 20% of dealt weapon damage over 6s. It stacks with itself.

 

Wounding Shot [ApplyOverTime]:

- deals 20% of dealt weapon damage over 6s. It doesn't stack with itself (if the new DoT instance has higher duration, it substitutes the older instance).

- one could think that each tick deals 20%, by reading the description, but nope.

 

Bleeding Cuts [ApplyOnTick]:

- ticks for 10% of dealt weapon damage / per 3s, for 60s. It stacks with itself.

 

Death of 1000 Cuts [ApplyOnTick]:

- ticks for 19 dmg / per 3s, for 30s. It doesn't stack with itself, but new instance adds it's duration to the current instance.

Edited April 11, 2019 by MaxQuest

[dunehunter]

Good question.

 

Unfortunately I can give only a partial answer.

 

First, here's some data from gamedatabundles:

 

 

> Disintegration:

{
  "StatusEffectType": "Damage",
  "OverrideDescriptionString": -1,
  "OverrideDescriptionStringTactical": -1,
  "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "TriggeredChild",
  "BaseValue": 240,
  "Duration": 15,
  "MaxStackQuantity": 0,
  "ApplicationBehavior": "UseLongerDurationIfAlreadyApplied",
  "ApplicationType": "ApplyOverTime"
}

> Deep Wounds:

{
  "StatusEffectType": "Damage",
  "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "None",
  "BaseValue": 0, // it's parent has "BaseValue": 0.2,
  "DurationType": "UseDurationTime",
  "Duration": 6,
  "MaxStackQuantity": 0,
  "ApplicationBehavior": "StackIfAlreadyApplied",
  "ApplicationType": "ApplyOverTime"
}

> Wounding Shot: 

{
  "StatusEffectType": "Damage",
  "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "None",
  "BaseValue": 0, // it's parent has "BaseValue": 0.2,
  "DurationType": "UseDurationTime",
  "Duration": 6,
  "MaxStackQuantity": 0,
  "ApplicationBehavior": "UseLongerDurationIfAlreadyApplied",
  "ApplicationType": "ApplyOverTime"
}

> Bleeding Cuts (Battle Axe): 

{
  "StatusEffectType": "Damage",
  "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "None",
  "BaseValue": 0, // it's parent has "BaseValue": 0.1,
  "DurationType": "UseDurationTime",
  "Duration": 60,
  "MaxStackQuantity": 0,
  "ApplicationBehavior": "StackIfAlreadyApplied",
  "ApplicationType": "ApplyOnTick"
}

> Death of 1000 Cuts (DoT): 

{
  "StatusEffectType": "Damage",
  "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "None",
  "BaseValue": 19,
  "DurationType": "UseDurationTime",
  "Duration": 30,
  "MaxStackQuantity": 0,
  "ApplicationBehavior": "AddDurationIfAlreadyApplied",
  "ApplicationType": "ApplyOnTick"
}

> and Soul Ignition for reference: 

{
  "StatusEffectType": "Damage",
  "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "None",
  "BaseValue": 16,
  "DurationType": "UseDurationTime",
  "Duration": 15,
  "MaxStackQuantity": 0,
  "ApplicationBehavior": "UseLongerDurationIfAlreadyApplied",
  "ApplicationType": "ApplyOnTick"
}

 

 

1). As you can see there are two application types: ApplyOnTick and ApplyOverTime.

The first one applies it's BaseValue (which is also shown in tooltip) every x seconds. While the last one uses BaseValue as base Total damage, and for each tick it divides that value on number of ticks.

I don't know what's the point of this separation yet.

Maybe the idea was for ApplyOverTime to have fixed duration? But afaik they still scale with PL and INT.

Or maybe the idea was to keep Total Damage unaffected by INT? But have to test it.

 

2). Disintegration and Wounding Shot (and perhaps even other "ApplyOverTime" effects as well) where quite bugged on release and for quite awhile. The total damage on grazes was often higher than that on hit. It was fixed later, at least in v4.0 I could no longer replicate that. Although Wounding Shot is still very subpar.

 

3). Few notes on examined DoTs:

 

Disintegration [ApplyOverTime]:

- deals 240 damage over 15s. Unlike in later version of PoE1 it no longer stacks with itself.

 

Deep Wounds [ApplyOverTime]:

- deals 20% of dealt weapon damage over 6s. It stacks with itself.

 

Wounding Shot [ApplyOverTime]:

- deals 20% of dealt weapon damage over 6s. It doesn't stack with itself (if the new DoT instance has higher duration, it substitutes the older instance).

- one could think that each tick deals 20%, by reading the description, but nope.

 

Bleeding Cuts [ApplyOnTick]:

- ticks for 10% of dealt weapon damage / per 3s, for 60s. It stacks with itself.

 

Death of 1000 Cuts [ApplyOnTick]:

- ticks for 19 dmg / per 3s, for 30s. It doesn't stack with itself, but new instance adds it's duration to the current instance.

 

 

Thanks MaxQuest, from your list of abilities, Bleeding Cuts seems to be super strong, even stronger than Deep wounds as it last much longer. Btw 10% of 'dealt weapon damage', does this only include base weapon damage without any damage modifiers (or maybe part of damage bonus that include might bonus and weapon enchantment bonus)?

 

Wounding shot is really meh as it is even weaker than rogue passive ability, an active ability that is worse than passive ability. 

Edited April 11, 2019 by dunehunter

[MaxQuest]

Deep Wounds, Wounding Shot and Bleeding Cuts have 3 parent status effects that are of [ApplyStatusEffectToEnemyByDamageDealt] type.

I can't check atm what it does. But would expect them to use the weapon damage that was actually dealt. Not just base damage. Although I have some doubts about lash damage being included.

 

P.S. Oh yes, Bleeding Cuts might be slow, but are definitely strong. If you made a hit for 50 damage, an extra 100 raw will be dealt over 60s. Even if those 50 were decreased by -75% from underpenetration.

And bonus points if you can keep the enemy under Cleansing Flames for the double tick rate. And extra points if you have high MIG, and enemy is affected by +40% damage taken from beacon, and +25% from that mace.

Edited April 11, 2019 by MaxQuest

[dunehunter]

Deep Wounds, Wounding Shot and Bleeding Cuts have 3 parent status effects that are of [ApplyStatusEffectToEnemyByDamageDealt] type.

I can't check atm what it does. But would expect them to use the weapon damage that was actually dealt. Not just base damage. Although I have some doubts about lash damage being included.

 

P.S. Oh yes, Bleeding Cuts might be slow, but are definitely strong. If you made a hit for 50 damage, an extra 100 raw will be dealt over 60s. Even if those 50 were decreased by -75% from underpenetration.

And bonus points if you can keep the enemy under Cleansing Flames for the double tick rate.

 

I'm pretty sure that it's something close to base damage, because even if I backstab with my rogue, the DoT tick amount is similar to his normal attack, but just not sure if any damage bonus will increase DoT damage.

 

Yeah, that's my another question, what if your attack is underpenetrated, does your DoT decreased as well?

Edited April 11, 2019 by dunehunter

[MaxQuest]

^ DoT damage from Bleeding Cuts was not decreased by underpenetration iirc. That's how I killed Neryscirlas last playthrough for example. Basically said: screw it, I will underpen all the way, but the raw damage will still go through. (Although now I am thinking it would be better to re-check it...)

 

As for Wounding Shot and Deep Wounds I don't know tbh. From the gamedatabundles it looks to behave the same. Althought that's not what someone would expect in practice.

Edited April 11, 2019 by MaxQuest

[dunehunter]

^ DoT damage from Bleeding Cuts was not decreased by underpenetration iirc. That's how I killed Neryscirlas last playthrough for example. Basically said: screw it, I will underpen all the way, but the raw damage will still go through. (Although now I am thinking it would be better to re-check it...)

 

As for Wounding Shot and Deep Wounds I don't know tbh. From the gamedatabundles it looks to behave the same. Althought that's not what someone would expect in practice.

 

At least deep wound DoT damage will be decreased if you attack underpenetrated.

[dunehunter]

^ DoT damage from Bleeding Cuts was not decreased by underpenetration iirc. That's how I killed Neryscirlas last playthrough for example. Basically said: screw it, I will underpen all the way, but the raw damage will still go through. (Although now I am thinking it would be better to re-check it...)

 

As for Wounding Shot and Deep Wounds I don't know tbh. From the gamedatabundles it looks to behave the same. Althought that's not what someone would expect in practice.

@MaxQuest I tested Bleeding Cut and I do think the DoT damage is reduced by underpenetration. I consoled an ukaizo guardian for test and the bleeding cut DoT shows like 1 or 0 per tick.

[thelee]

 

^ DoT damage from Bleeding Cuts was not decreased by underpenetration iirc. That's how I killed Neryscirlas last playthrough for example. Basically said: screw it, I will underpen all the way, but the raw damage will still go through. (Although now I am thinking it would be better to re-check it...)

 

As for Wounding Shot and Deep Wounds I don't know tbh. From the gamedatabundles it looks to behave the same. Althought that's not what someone would expect in practice.

@MaxQuest I tested Bleeding Cut and I do think the DoT damage is reduced by underpenetration. I consoled an ukaizo guardian for test and the bleeding cut DoT shows like 1 or 0 per tick.

 

it's only 10% damage per tick, which means you'd need to do at least 20 base damage to see more than 1 per tick (but decimals are retained so you might see more every once and a while based on rounding). what was your pre-PEN damage?

 

edit - I assumed bleeding cut was post-PEN damage based on some early stuff, but I haven't used it a lot, and MaxQuest tends to be right about these things (though not always ), so just probing for more details

Edited April 17, 2019 by thelee

[dunehunter]

 

 

^ DoT damage from Bleeding Cuts was not decreased by underpenetration iirc. That's how I killed Neryscirlas last playthrough for example. Basically said: screw it, I will underpen all the way, but the raw damage will still go through. (Although now I am thinking it would be better to re-check it...)

 

As for Wounding Shot and Deep Wounds I don't know tbh. From the gamedatabundles it looks to behave the same. Althought that's not what someone would expect in practice.

@MaxQuest I tested Bleeding Cut and I do think the DoT damage is reduced by underpenetration. I consoled an ukaizo guardian for test and the bleeding cut DoT shows like 1 or 0 per tick.

it's only 10% damage per tick, which means you'd need to do at least 20 base damage to see more than 1 per tick (but decimals are retained so you might see more every once and a while based on rounding). what was your pre-PEN damage?

 

edit - I assumed bleeding cut was post-PEN damage based on some early stuff, but I haven't used it a lot, and MaxQuest tends to be right about these things (though not always ), so just probing for more details

Well I’m testing with a lvl 20 rogue so no doubt he has more than 20 base damage

[dunehunter]

A few test on DoT abilities and weapon enchantment and my conclusion on mechanism:

• Bleeding Cut: 10% of post-PEN damage per tick for 60 second, INT will extend duration. So it is 200% of your damage in total. Stack with itself. Duration is NOT affected by critical hit, only damage per tick is affected because it is based on your post-PEP damage.
• Maiming of Effort: 15% of post-PEN damage per tick, for 6 second, INT will extend duration. So it is 45% of your damage in total (first tick is on hit, second tick on 3 second and last on 6 second). NOT stack with itself and duration is not extended by multiple hits, which means you need to wait the first DoT expires to apply second one. Critical hit does NOT affect duration.
• Deep Wound.: this is interesting, although the Tool tip shows it is 20% of your damage but actually it only does 10% of your post-PEN damage per tick for 6 second. INT will extend duration. So it is 30% of your damage in total (first tick is on hit, second tick on 3 second and last on 6 second). Like Bleeding Cut, it stacks with itself. Critical hit does NOT affect duration.
• Wounding Shot: works exactly same as Deep Wounds.
• All damage above is rounded up.
• Lash does NOT increase your DoT damage.

Not sure if it is a bug that Deep Wound only does 10% of total damage u did :/
 

Edit: @MaxQuest, based on your Quote of code I think there is some bug with 'ApplyOverTime' in compare with 'ApplyOnTick'. As you can see both Deep Wounds and Wounding Shot is using ApplyOverTime as its ApplicationType and both is bugged? to only deal 10% damage instead of 20%. Or 30% over x second instead of 20% as you get one extra tick on hit so it's 10% on 0 second, 10% on 3 second and 10% on 6 second so 30% in total. Anyway either the description is unclear or the implement is vague.

 

You might argue that the description is 20% damage over time so it is 20% damage in total, not per tick. But the problem is Maiming(Effort sword) also has the description of '15% damage as raw over time'! and it IS 15% weapon damage per tick haha!

Edited April 18, 2019 by dunehunter

[MaxQuest]

@MaxQuest I tested Bleeding Cut and I do think the DoT damage is reduced by underpenetration. I consoled an ukaizo guardian for test and the bleeding cut DoT shows like 1 or 0 per tick.

Yeah, that's most likely.

Not to mention that it is triggered by the same ApplyStatusEffectToEnemyByDamageDealt as Wounding Shot and Deep Wounds, and those definitely use postDR damage.

 

And I now understood why I had a feeling that it is preDR:

- it acts a little bit like lash. And lashes take preDR damage, and apply it vs the AR type they target.

- I applied a lot of stacks to Neryscirlas before the Safeguard trigger. And after the trigger was seeing red numbers pop of similar value, so I stopped paying attention. 

 

edit - I assumed bleeding cut was post-PEN damage based on some early stuff, but I haven't used it a lot, and MaxQuest tends to be right about these things (though not always ), so just probing for more details

Am only human ^^

 

I'd like to have enough free time for all the tests, but usually I don't\

That's why if I am not 100% sure in something I add stuff like "iirc", "I would expect" and so on.

 

As for Bleeding Cuts, was waiting for weekend to test it. But dunehunter already did)

 

Edit: @MaxQuest, based on your Quote of code I think there is some bug with 'ApplyOverTime' in compare with 'ApplyOnTick'. As you can see both Deep Wounds and Wounding Shot is using ApplyOverTime as its ApplicationType and both is bugged? to only deal 10% damage instead of 20%. Or 30% over x second instead of 20% as you get one extra tick on hit so it's 10% on 0 second, 10% on 3 second and 10% on 6 second so 30% in total. Anyway either the description is unclear or the implement is vague.

Can't tell without testing, but wouldn't be surprised.

 

ApplyOverTime uses it's value as "total base damage". So 20% would have to be divided between 3 ticks in:

- 6.66% on 0s

- 6.66% on 3s

- 6.66% on 6s

 

And either it indeed does so, and there are rounding errors (which make it look like 10%). And this better be tested with a custom weapon that has 100 min and 100 max damage.

Or there is some error in the code that computes the tick damage as [total / (duration / tick_interval)] instead of [total / (1 + duration / tick_interval)]. Because there is that immediate tick on apply.

 

---

Btw, I have taken a look at Maiming (from Effort sword)

{
  "StatusEffectType": "Damage",
  "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "None",
  "BaseValue": 0, // it's parent has "BaseValue": 0.15,
  "DurationType": "UseDurationTime",
  "Duration": 6,
  "MaxStackQuantity": 0,
  "ApplicationBehavior": "DontApplyIfAlreadyApplied",
  "ApplicationType": "ApplyOnTick",
}

Which confirms your test.

 

You might argue that the description is 20% damage over time so it is 20% damage in total, not per tick. But the problem is Maiming(Effort sword) also has the description of '15% damage as raw over time'! and it IS 15% weapon damage per tick haha!

Maiming uses ApplyOnTick.

Deep Wounds uses ApplyOverTime)

 

Wounding Shot: works exactly same as Deep Wounds.

There is a small difference:

- Deep Wounds stacks with itself

- while Wounding Shot has UseLongerDurationIfAlreadyApplied

 

Btw, do you think if it was really gamebreaking if Maiming and Wounding Shot used StackIfAlreadyApplied ApplicationType?

Edited April 18, 2019 by MaxQuest

[dunehunter]

 

Edit: @MaxQuest, based on your Quote of code I think there is some bug with 'ApplyOverTime' in compare with 'ApplyOnTick'. As you can see both Deep Wounds and Wounding Shot is using ApplyOverTime as its ApplicationType and both is bugged? to only deal 10% damage instead of 20%. Or 30% over x second instead of 20% as you get one extra tick on hit so it's 10% on 0 second, 10% on 3 second and 10% on 6 second so 30% in total. Anyway either the description is unclear or the implement is vague.

Can't tell without testing, but wouldn't be surprised.

 

ApplyOverTime uses it's value as "total base damage". So 20% would have to be divided between 3 ticks in:

- 6.66% on 0s

- 6.66% on 3s

- 6.66% on 6s

 

And either it indeed does so, and there are rounding errors (which make it look like 10%). And this better be tested with a custom weapon that has 100 min and 100 max damage.

Or there is some error in the code that computes the tick damage as [total / (duration / tick_interval)] instead of [total / (1 + duration / tick_interval)]. Because there is that immediate tick on apply.

 

---

Btw, I have taken a look at Maiming (from Effort sword)

{
  "StatusEffectType": "Damage",
  "UseStatusEffectValueAs": "None",
  "BaseValue": 0, // it's parent has "BaseValue": 0.15,
  "DurationType": "UseDurationTime",
  "Duration": 6,
  "MaxStackQuantity": 0,
  "ApplicationBehavior": "DontApplyIfAlreadyApplied",
  "ApplicationType": "ApplyOnTick",
}

Which confirms your test.

 

You might argue that the description is 20% damage over time so it is 20% damage in total, not per tick. But the problem is Maiming(Effort sword) also has the description of '15% damage as raw over time'! and it IS 15% weapon damage per tick haha!

Maiming uses ApplyOnTick.

Deep Wounds uses ApplyOverTime)

 

Wounding Shot: works exactly same as Deep Wounds.

There is a small difference:

- Deep Wounds stacks with itself

- while Wounding Shot has UseLongerDurationIfAlreadyApplied

 

Btw, do you think if it was really gamebreaking if Maiming and Wounding Shot used StackIfAlreadyApplied ApplicationType?

 

 

For Deep Wounds, my base damage is pretty high so I can exclude the assumption of the round up error, I'm pretty sure it's 10% not 6.66%.

 

Both Maiming and Deep Wounds' description is XX% damage over time so I'm surprised that they use different applyType, maybe an oversight.

 

Won't say it's gamebreaking because Bleeding Cut already did, and has 60 sec duration.

Edited April 18, 2019 by dunehunter

[Phenomenum]

For Deep Wounds, my base damage is pretty high so I can exclude the assumption of the round up error, I'm pretty sure it's 10% not 6.66%.

 

ApplyOverTime is worst effect ever.

Imagine you have weapon with 100 pt. Damage, so 20% = 20 pt. Now they apply within 6 sec., simply enough. But if your Intellect high enough (eg. +50% effects duration) you have the same 20 pt. of Damage over 9 sec. No Damage gain. Tidefall from PoE 1 works the same way, so it was better to have low Intellect, becose Damage nor changing.

 

ApplyOnTick is whole different. In the same scenario you deal 20 pt. every 3 sec. and if your Intellect high enough you will gain additional Ticks - and additional Damage.

[Elric Galad]

But how intellect affects first tick ?

 

With 20 intellect, wounding shot duration would be 9s, so maybe 6,66% damages per tick (20% / (9/3) = 6,66%)

 

If the initial tick is also 6,66%, it means Wounding Shot with high intellect would only deal 26,66% damages, lower than the 30% from your calculation.

 

30% damages isn't ugly as a lash effect for a lvl 1 ability. But if Intellect is detrimental, then pffff...

[Phenomenum]

Ohhh... Sit and wait here - i'll go and catch some proofs.

[Phenomenum]

I hacked a pair of abilities to show the difference. Damage On Tick can be with different intervals (per 0,33 sec., per 1 sec., per 3 sec., per 6 sec. and so on)ю I'm decided to use 1 sec. interval for illustration purposes. @MaxQuest, correct me if i wrong somewhere.

 

 

 

Apply Over Time (Intellect 10).

All is simple, exept one thing: you can't see this, but game divides 100 pt. of Damage on 4 Ticks - 25 pt. per each Tick. But really it doesn't matter at all.

 

Apply Over Time (Intellect 20).

Here 100 pt. of Damage divided into 6 Ticks - 16.666... pt. of Damage each Tick. But total Damage value is still the same - 100 pt. - it's just takes longer time to apply.

 

Apply On Tick (Intellect 10).

All simple - 10 Ticks, 10 pt. of Damage per Tick = 100.

 

Apply On Tick (Intellect 20).

And here some interesting things: Intellect bonus give to us additional Ticks (now we have 15 Ticks) with 10 pt. of Damage per Tick - and total Damage is greatly increased.

 

That's why i hate ApplyOverTime implementation - Intellect bonus gives nothing. With 1 Int, those 100 pt. of Damage were applied in 5.5 sec, instead of 10.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Phenomenum

[thelee]

Phenomum, before you make any conclusions, you should at least read the post in this thread: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/105687-bug-disintegrations-damage-bonus-is-not-correct/

 

intellect is/was fixed to benefit these applyovertime effects, but the tooltip has just never been updated. edit - from the post:

"The damage showed on the text only calculate the damage for 15s rather than the wohle duration." (when talking about the intellect-influenced duration). Patch 3.0.1 fixed intellect-based damage scaling. (i think combat log will show the correct total damage, taking into account intellect)

 

afaict the remaining bug is related to incorrect might scaling.

 

still doesn't change the fact that using applyovertime appears to be a bad design decision.

Edited April 18, 2019 by thelee

[Phenomenum]

afaict the remaining bug is related to incorrect might scaling.

I doubt it's related to Might, becose...

 

UPDATE. Tested Deep Wounds. Metodology:

 

Frienfly target, Health 247 vs. Weapon 100-100 dmg. Attacker have 10 pt. in all Attributes

Hit should apply 100 + 20 Raw Damage for 6 sec. Target's Health should be 127 after attack.

 

Test 1: Hit (100 dmg) + 20 pt. (20%) Deep Wounds damage >>> Health = 116.   247 - 116 = 131 total damage.

Test 2: Graze (50 dmg) + 10 pt. (20%) Deep Wounds damage >>> Health = 182.    247 - 182 = 65 total damage.

 

So DW deals 30% of Damage as Raw. Value in statuseffects.gamedatabundle is 0.2. So it's clearly a bug.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Phenomenum

[thelee]

 

afaict the remaining bug is related to incorrect might scaling.

I doubt it's related to Might, becose...

 

UPDATE. Tested Deep Wounds. Metodology:

 

Frienfly target, Health 247 vs. Weapon 100-100 dmg. Attacker have 10 pt. in all Attributes

Hit should apply 100 + 20 Raw Damage for 6 sec. Target's Health should be 127 after attack.

 

Test 1: Hit (100 dmg) + 20 pt. (20%) Deep Wounds damage >>> Health = 116.   247 - 116 = 131 total damage.

Test 2: Graze (50 dmg) + 10 pt. (20%) Deep Wounds damage >>> Health = 182.    247 - 182 = 65 total damage.

 

So DW deals 30% of Damage as Raw. Value in statuseffects.gamedatabundle is 0.2. So it's clearly a bug.

 

 

sorry i should've been more clear. What I meant was that of the known buggy issues directly related to applyovertime, it's "just" might scaling being much lower than usual versus your latter claim that intellect scaling isn't working (see the linked thread).

 

I wasn't trying to exclude this other thing about 30% vs 20% (which I speculated in the bug thread was the game ignoring the on-hit initial tick damage).

Edited April 18, 2019 by thelee

[dunehunter]

@Phenomenum well Maiming’s description said it does 15% raw damage over time, but actually it was 15% per tick for 3 tick so 45% in total. So which description is correct? Deep wound or Maiming? Because both is xx% damage over time but they are implemented totally different.

 

I think there are three key factor on this:

 

A. Is the DoT stackable? Let’s use 0 as no, 1 as yes so A0 means not stackable.

B. Is duration extended by more hits?

C. Is x% in description the total damage or per tick? 0 means total

 

There are at least 4 version now, Deep wound use A1B0C0, Wounding shot is A0B1C0, Maiming is A0B0C1, Bleeding cut is A1B0C1...

 

In conclusion, for every x% weapon damage ability and weapon enchantment I hope to see some consistency in the next patch. Because it’s so inconsistent and confusing now. We have at least 4 version of DoT though different abilities. Why can’t just make things clearer and simpler?

Edited April 19, 2019 by dunehunter

[Elric Galad]

 

 

afaict the remaining bug is related to incorrect might scaling.

I doubt it's related to Might, becose...

 

UPDATE. Tested Deep Wounds. Metodology:

 

Frienfly target, Health 247 vs. Weapon 100-100 dmg. Attacker have 10 pt. in all Attributes

Hit should apply 100 + 20 Raw Damage for 6 sec. Target's Health should be 127 after attack.

 

Test 1: Hit (100 dmg) + 20 pt. (20%) Deep Wounds damage >>> Health = 116. 247 - 116 = 131 total damage.

Test 2: Graze (50 dmg) + 10 pt. (20%) Deep Wounds damage >>> Health = 182. 247 - 182 = 65 total damage.

 

So DW deals 30% of Damage as Raw. Value in statuseffects.gamedatabundle is 0.2. So it's clearly a bug.

sorry i should've been more clear. What I meant was that of the known buggy issues directly related to applyovertime, it's "just" might scaling being much lower than usual versus your latter claim that intellect scaling isn't working (see the linked thread).

 

I wasn't trying to exclude this other thing about 30% vs 20% (which I speculated in the bug thread was the game ignoring the on-hit initial tick damage).

But what is the effect of Int on DW and Wounding Shot then ? Does ot increase the damages done above 30% ?

 

30% is fine IMHO, especially for Wounding Shot. 20% would be to low.

[Phenomenum]

But what is the effect of Int on DW and Wounding Shot then ? Does ot increase the damages done above 30% ?

 

Don't know. For DW, Int's shouldn't affect on total damage. i'll test it later.

[Phenomenum]

sorry i should've been more clear. What I meant was that of the known buggy issues directly related to applyovertime, it's "just" might scaling being much lower than usual versus your latter claim that intellect scaling isn't working (see the linked thread).

Still don't understand, what do you mean. Lost in translation, literally.