Politics and Statesmenship: A Forum Special Report

[algroth]

1 minute ago, injurai said:

Gotcha.

What does it mean to steal a nations GDP for an entire year? Like what...

A lot of money, basically, which they've stolen over twelve years.

[injurai]

Stolen through shady contractors to private companies and the like?

[algroth]

13 minutes ago, injurai said:

Stolen through shady contractors to private companies and the like?

More like government "plans" and "renovations" and "credits" and the likes. All fake, or heavily overestimated. Or just straight-up bribery too.

[BruceVC]

3 hours ago, algroth said:

More like government "plans" and "renovations" and "credits" and the likes. All fake, or heavily overestimated. Or just straight-up bribery too.

Another massive issue with Argentina is its constant and historical behavior of not wanting to pay international debts, its really bad and effects its credibility in the financial market 

But worst than that is not paying its Bonds debt and bondholders, this is like borrowing money from a bank and then refusing to pay back the loan. Its akin to stealing. I think this has been paid in most cases but again this adds to the credibility issue

https://www.reuters.com/article/argentina-debt-ruling-idUSL1N12U24R20151030

http://static7.businessinsider.com/ap-argentina-pays-down-much-of-its-debt-us-judge-drops-orders-2016-4

 

[injurai]

All countries hold debt as leverage. You default at your own risk. You also issue debt at your own risk. I don't know the specifics, but if Argentina is defaulting because they were given bad loans, then you have to go back to the issuer. Of course the issuer never wants to clear the debt, they just want to restructure enough so they renew their cash flow. Something is better than nothing.

 

I've seen enough of Greece's situation to know better than blame it all on them. In fact I'd blame most of it on Germany and Brussels.

Again, I have no idea if this is apropos of Argentina or not.

[pmp10]

15 hours ago, BruceVC said:

But most  events and outcomes of history dont get rewritten usually, they irrefutable.

Not really.

With 2 sides to every story and cheery-picking 'facts' you can come to great many conclusions about events.
Cause and effect is never straightforward in human societies.

US civil war is a pretty good example since IIRC south didn't even regard Gettysburg as a major defeat at the time.

 

[BruceVC]

38 minutes ago, pmp10 said:

Not really.

With 2 sides to every story and cheery-picking 'facts' you can come to great many conclusions about events.
Cause and effect is never straightforward in human societies.

US civil war is a pretty good example since IIRC south didn't even regard Gettysburg as a major defeat at the time.

'

Okay but the South regarding Gettysburg as some sort of " victory ", which I find hard to believe, is not same as looking back and rewriting history

Gettysburg was a  Northern victory, this is irrefutable as are most  events like this when we study history 

Edited May 19, 2019 by BruceVC

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, pmp10 said:

Not really.

With 2 sides to every story and cheery-picking 'facts' you can come to great many conclusions about events.
Cause and effect is never straightforward in human societies.

US civil war is a pretty good example since IIRC south didn't even regard Gettysburg as a major defeat at the time.

 

I want to raise something else around  my overall point about most events in history being irrefutable and cant or shouldnt be rewritten 

I will use Gromnirs example around Lee  as it supports my point. The question " was Lee a good general " , this is completely subjective and would involve nuance and deep analysis of the various battles he won or lost to come to some answer..and you still wont get agreement. This is normal with this type of historical question

Personally I think he was an excellent general and I also dont think you should take down his statue in places like Virginia because it creates unnecessary invective and feeds both real and irrational fears of Southern culture and history being undermined

But going back to Gettysburg, there should be no dispute around whose victory it was because we know the North won through comprehensive historical data and the actual outcome, I hope this makes sense ?

[majestic]

213374U might chuckle a bit:

[213374U]

Yeah, I was thinking about that, when you posted it the other day. Ibiza is already a cesspit, choice destination for hooligans, jacked up morons and the international "beautiful people". Now add corrupt politicians to the mix -- not that we didn't already have our own homegrown. Really not my kind of place. A shame because it's really nice, otherwise.

[Amentep]

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