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Spark crackers


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#1
DiabloStorm

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I like that you can cast spells, blow things up or whatever to divert the attention of people while you're in stealth. This is why I wish Spark Crackers would actually "Distract" the target for the duration they say. As in...give it an additional effect from stealth if you throw it near someone, they will go over and stand by it for the entire duration. This would allow you to move around in stealth to pass by freely, or put enemies near destructibles. Seriously, just another disappointment at such a lost opportunity here.


Edited by DiabloStorm, 05 March 2019 - 10:33 PM.


#2
xzar_monty

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Spark crackers and the like appear to be so ineffective that I gave up on them rather early. Stun bombs, for example, sound like a great idea, but in practice they do so little there's just no point.

 

If you put a huge amount of points into explosives, will things improve significantly?

 

I agree it's a lost opportunity.



#3
Boeroer

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Sparkcrackers are the only explosives I use because they are awesome. You throw them near a group of enemies (not hitting anybody!) and the enemies will gather and check out what that noise was. You can then either drop an AoE (usually I cast a combo of Arduous Delay and Pull of Eora) or sneak past them or throw another set of Sparkcrackers to guide them away even further.

I don't know where the problem is? Do you throw them directly onto somebody? Or are you only disappointed that the the enemies return rather quickly once they find that there's nothing worht their attention?

I see no lost opportunity with Sparkcrackers. Arkemyr's Dazzling Lights can be used to the same effect by the way, but only on hostile characters. Sparkcrackers are the only thing that wll lure a neutral NPC away afaik.

I only see another fussy complaint about something that doesn't exactly match your expectations.

Explosives not scaling properly: that's something we can agree about.

Edited by Boeroer, 06 March 2019 - 03:30 AM.

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#4
DiabloStorm

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Sparkcrackers are the only explosives I use because they are awesome. You throw them near a group of enemies (not hitting anybody!) and the enemies will gather and check out what that noise was. You can then either drop an AoE (usually I cast a combo of Arduous Delay and Pull of Eora) or sneak past them or throw another set of Sparkcrackers to guide them away even further.

I don't know where the problem is? Do you throw them directly onto somebody? Or are you only disappointed that the the enemies return rather quickly once they find that there's nothing worht their attention?

I see no lost opportunity with Sparkcrackers. Arkemyr's Dazzling Lights can be used to the same effect by the way, but only on hostile characters. Sparkcrackers are the only thing that wll lure a neutral NPC away afaik.

I only see another fussy complaint about something that doesn't exactly match your expectations.

Explosives not scaling properly: that's something we can agree about.

The problem is yes, they arent *distracted* (in the way im describing above) for the listed duration and I am disappointed they return to their original positions after like 2.5 seconds. It's an expendable item and going through a lot of hoops I can manage without (Inb4 obsidian watches my tactics some more and nerfs accordingly), but, no, ANY AOE spell that doesnt require a target gets this for free. The "distracted" debuff and in such a tiny aoe from the spark crackers hardly makes it worth using in it's current form.

Also, no, I obviously am not throwing it directly on top of an enemy.


Edited by DiabloStorm, 06 March 2019 - 03:59 AM.


#5
Boeroer

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I don't think it's possible to put an effect on the enemies without doing an attack resolution. And that would most likely break your stealth (without tweaks to the stealth/discovery/start-encounter mechanics). And I also think that the time that enemies are "distracted" is not altered by the effect which caused the distraction. What could be done (maybe) is to prolong the duration of the "cracking" sound/noise which attracts the enemies. I mean that Sparkcrackers could not just go *pouf-pouf-pouf* all at once but keep on cracking for a few seconds (with some delays in between - like real ones) - this could mean that enemies get distracted longer. The argument that a consumable should have a better/different effect than a spell that can be used freely from stealth is valid. Sparkcrackers already have the advatange that you can lure neutral npcs away with them though (important when trying to steal stuff or if you want to pass a spot where "neutral" guards will usually send you away). But a bit longer effect would not hurt. 

 

On the other hand they are pretty cheap to craft. And you can throw multiple ones to keep the enemies distracted. So I think it's not too bad all in all. 


Edited by Boeroer, 06 March 2019 - 04:09 AM.

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#6
DiabloStorm

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I don't think it's possible to put an effect on the enemies without doing an attack resolution. And that would most likely break your stealth (without tweaks to the stealth/discovery/start-encounter mechanics). And I also think that the time that enemies are "distracted" is not altered by the effect which caused the distraction. What could be done (maybe) is to prolong the duration of the "cracking" sound/noise which attracts the enemies. I mean that Sparkcrackers could not just go *pouf-pouf-pouf* all at once but keep on cracking for a few seconds (with some delays in between - like real ones) - this could mean that enemies get distracted longer. The argument that a consumable should have a better/different effect than a spell that can be used freely from stealth is valid. Sparkcrackers already have the advatange that you can lure neutral npcs away with them though (important when trying to steal stuff or if you want to pass a spot where "neutral" guards will usually send you away). But a bit longer effect would not hurt. 

 

On the other hand they are pretty cheap to craft. And you can throw multiple ones to keep the enemies distracted. So I think it's not too bad all in all. 

The use vs neutral NPCs sounds better, didn't notice that was a thing. Though that's useful to know, I still wish it would actually distract and hold attention for 15 or so seconds when used in stealth. Destructible items work to grab attention vs neutral NPCs also.


Edited by DiabloStorm, 06 March 2019 - 04:24 AM.


#7
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Well I didn't test is excessively but I can't (for example) lure away most shopkeepers with Dazzling Lights etc. Only with Sparkcrackers.



#8
bugarup

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I sneaked past mean librarians in Forgotten Sanctum just fine with crackers. Took some trial and error and savescumming, as I never really used them before plus my Explosives was rubbish and Stealth mediocre, but it got the job done. 

 

Also, kinda half-wishing for Something Awful's paid userpic system now, Skull McHorns deserves more fitting avatar: qivCx8e.png


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#9
asnjas

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Instead of turning transparent and walking slowley, players should crouch down and hide under a cardboard box!

The least stealthy act i can think off is setting off firecrackers 25 ft away from devil worshipping cultists in an ancient closed off underground temple where the odds of firecrackers going off at all is zero to none. Nothing screams someone else is here youre not alone than firecrackers out of no where.

Gameplay wise i cant even think of what youd accomplish or gain by manipulating enemy NPCs. Theres not much to do with stealth besides those scripted text interactions and scouting. This aint like other games where theres alternate paths or ways of completing the mission.

#10
Verde

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At least the stealth in Deadfire is much better. It was unbelievably crap in PoE1.
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#11
DiabloStorm

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Instead of turning transparent and walking slowley, players should crouch down and hide under a cardboard box!

The least stealthy act i can think off is setting off firecrackers 25 ft away from devil worshipping cultists in an ancient closed off underground temple where the odds of firecrackers going off at all is zero to none. Nothing screams someone else is here youre not alone than firecrackers out of no where.

Gameplay wise i cant even think of what youd accomplish or gain by manipulating enemy NPCs. Theres not much to do with stealth besides those scripted text interactions and scouting. This aint like other games where theres alternate paths or ways of completing the mission.

Lol...the video I had linked actually refutes a lot of what you said...I actually broke the quest in that video in a few ways. Snuck past using distractions (and other legitimate methods i wont disclose) then used lures (spells in this case) to lure an entire group near explosives, killed all but the quest NPC and one of his lackeys with powder kegs (which the developers didn't anticipate the quest NPC surviving) while losing no reputation, then I exited the map and further quest related dialogue assumed I killed the person I left behind (which would make no sense, thus, an outcome the developers didn't prepare for)

At least the example you gave about the cultists gave me a chuckle.


Edited by DiabloStorm, 06 March 2019 - 06:37 PM.


#12
Frak

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I love sparkcrackers. I get your complaint that they don't distract for the whole duration pr se, but I love them yet. They are great for getting NPC away from chests, where I want to steal the contents.

 

 

Have you read this thread? It will be right up your alley.

https://forums.obsid...-too-sensitive/



#13
asnjas

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Instead of turning transparent and walking slowley, players should crouch down and hide under a cardboard box!

The least stealthy act i can think off is setting off firecrackers 25 ft away from devil worshipping cultists in an ancient closed off underground temple where the odds of firecrackers going off at all is zero to none. Nothing screams someone else is here youre not alone than firecrackers out of no where.

Gameplay wise i cant even think of what youd accomplish or gain by manipulating enemy NPCs. Theres not much to do with stealth besides those scripted text interactions and scouting. This aint like other games where theres alternate paths or ways of completing the mission.

Lol...the video I had linked actually refutes a lot of what you said...I actually broke the quest in that video in a few ways. Snuck past using distractions (and other legitimate methods i wont disclose) then used lures (spells in this case) to lure an entire group near explosives, killed all but the quest NPC and one of his lackeys with powder kegs (which the developers didn't anticipate the quest NPC surviving) while losing no reputation, then I exited the map and further quest related dialogue assumed I killed the person I left behind (which would make no sense, thus, an outcome the developers didn't prepare for)

At least the example you gave about the cultists gave me a chuckle.

Lol not really but i know how desperate people are to be right.

Basically you are applying a different meaning to alternate path. Which is cool. Not really what i had in mind tho. Your path was exactly the same as if you didnt use stealth. Same path but you walked instead of ran. Other games provide a completely different way of getting to the objective and completing the mission by employing stealth. Stealth opens new doors, literally and figuratively, to completing the quest.

#14
Purudaya

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Fun side-effect of sparkcrackers: you can use them to trigger Heating Up/On The Edge on friendly party members :)

 

Playing a streetfighter and tossing sparkcrackers at your feet to distract both yourself and your engaged enemy is a neat application of the mechanics and pretty fun RP-wise. I usually have a companion keep some on hand as well to give me a boost in fights where I don't want to risk low health or can't proc flanked.


Edited by Purudaya, 07 March 2019 - 12:36 PM.

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#15
thelee

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Fun side-effect of sparkcrackers: you can use them to trigger Heating Up/On The Edge on friendly party members :)

 

Playing a streetfighter and tossing sparkcrackers at your feet to distract both yourself and your engaged enemy is a neat application of the mechanics and pretty fun RP-wise. I usually have a companion keep some on hand as well to give me a boost in fights where I don't want to risk low health or can't proc flanked.

 

unfortunately this got nerfed a bit - sparkcrackers used to trigger two times (for two attack rolls to try to connect) but now (as of like 4.1) only trigger once. still really fun (and probably the most powerful application of sparkcrackers)

 

i think the possible problem with trying to extend sparkcrackers "distract" (not distract) duration is that it would require a re-work of the stealth system. if you keep making noise in the same place, i think they might just end up walking into the area of effect and start combat.


Edited by thelee, 07 March 2019 - 12:46 PM.

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#16
DiabloStorm

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Instead of turning transparent and walking slowley, players should crouch down and hide under a cardboard box!

The least stealthy act i can think off is setting off firecrackers 25 ft away from devil worshipping cultists in an ancient closed off underground temple where the odds of firecrackers going off at all is zero to none. Nothing screams someone else is here youre not alone than firecrackers out of no where.

Gameplay wise i cant even think of what youd accomplish or gain by manipulating enemy NPCs. Theres not much to do with stealth besides those scripted text interactions and scouting. This aint like other games where theres alternate paths or ways of completing the mission.

Lol...the video I had linked actually refutes a lot of what you said...I actually broke the quest in that video in a few ways. Snuck past using distractions (and other legitimate methods i wont disclose) then used lures (spells in this case) to lure an entire group near explosives, killed all but the quest NPC and one of his lackeys with powder kegs (which the developers didn't anticipate the quest NPC surviving) while losing no reputation, then I exited the map and further quest related dialogue assumed I killed the person I left behind (which would make no sense, thus, an outcome the developers didn't prepare for)

At least the example you gave about the cultists gave me a chuckle.

Lol not really but i know how desperate people are to be right.

Basically you are applying a different meaning to alternate path. Which is cool. Not really what i had in mind tho. Your path was exactly the same as if you didnt use stealth. Same path but you walked instead of ran. Other games provide a completely different way of getting to the objective and completing the mission by employing stealth. Stealth opens new doors, literally and figuratively, to completing the quest.

 

Logic and reasoning seem to be lost on you. Either way, with many quests, obsidian offers a couple of different ways to complete some of them (including stealth and sleight of hand methods)

The fact that you are unable to think outside of the box and see what value manipulating NPCs has is more indicative of your own faults, especially when I went out of the way to give you an exact example.

Simply, moving them around (manipuating them) makes stealing easier, makes bypassing them in stealth easier, makes luring them to a specific point for a tactical attack easier. This is almost an entirely separate issue from completing quests, I wasn't even talking about quests in this thread.


Edited by DiabloStorm, 07 March 2019 - 07:01 PM.


#17
Verde

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There are alternate paths for stealth in some cases. For example, Hosango, which I just completed without a single fight, except the two very first Naga, with a mix of stealth and diplomacy. Now not every mission has stealth paths, moreso diplomacy, but alternate paths are still availble whether intended or unintended through creative means.

Edited by Verde, 08 March 2019 - 07:44 AM.

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#18
Purudaya

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Fun side-effect of sparkcrackers: you can use them to trigger Heating Up/On The Edge on friendly party members :)

 

Playing a streetfighter and tossing sparkcrackers at your feet to distract both yourself and your engaged enemy is a neat application of the mechanics and pretty fun RP-wise. I usually have a companion keep some on hand as well to give me a boost in fights where I don't want to risk low health or can't proc flanked.

 

unfortunately this got nerfed a bit - sparkcrackers used to trigger two times (for two attack rolls to try to connect) but now (as of like 4.1) only trigger once. still really fun (and probably the most powerful application of sparkcrackers)

 

 

Ah, that's too bad - is the change a feature or a bug? Hard to tell sometimes with 4.1, I haven't played since AoE weapon afflictions stopped working.



#19
thelee

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Fun side-effect of sparkcrackers: you can use them to trigger Heating Up/On The Edge on friendly party members :)

 

Playing a streetfighter and tossing sparkcrackers at your feet to distract both yourself and your engaged enemy is a neat application of the mechanics and pretty fun RP-wise. I usually have a companion keep some on hand as well to give me a boost in fights where I don't want to risk low health or can't proc flanked.

 

unfortunately this got nerfed a bit - sparkcrackers used to trigger two times (for two attack rolls to try to connect) but now (as of like 4.1) only trigger once. still really fun (and probably the most powerful application of sparkcrackers)

 

 

Ah, that's too bad - is the change a feature or a bug? Hard to tell sometimes with 4.1, I haven't played since AoE weapon afflictions stopped working.

 

 

very hard to tell. for what it's worth, rokowa's fingers (gloves that provide 2x sparkcrackers effect/day and some stats) still makes multiple checks for each sparkcrackers attempt. it makes me think that it was a deliberate nerfing or bugfixing of the sparkcrackers effect and they forgot about the copy-pasted effect on rokowa's fingers.


Edited by thelee, 12 March 2019 - 06:54 AM.





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