Any underrated invocations?

[Jayd]

I've been thinking a lot about playing with a single class Bellower focused on making the most out of invocations. There are popular damage dealing ones like Eld Nary and the flying weapons, and there are straightforwardly good ones like Hel-Hyraf and Not Felled (armor is a big deal).  But I want to know if there are others that are easily overlooked but actually very strong. (Or ones that seem like they should be really good but are bad.)

 

For example, are the ones that give three inspirations worth using or is the opportunity cost too high? The dank spore has an infinite use charm spell and can inflict permanent sicken. Seems pretty good on paper but I don't hear anyone talk about it. And I feel like I don't quite get Boil Their Flesh. Looks like it should only be used on Near Death enemies. Is the payoff good enough for such a limiting condition?

 

Thanks for any secret chanter knowledge you can share.

[Boeroer]

White Worms has quite high base damage for such a low level spell. This means that every power level adds a significant chunk of dmg (in absolute numbers). And since it's lvl 1 you can add quite a bit power levels to it.

 

The Daylight invocation upgrade used do do the same damage on grazes as on hits - made it quite good against high defense foes. Don't know if that got fixed.

Edited February 15, 2019 by Boeroer

[DozingDragon]

I'm a big fan of the PL 5 upgrade to Ben Fidel.  The -10 debuff to all defenses is pretty awesome.  

[Enoch]

A Bellower is going to be most optimal when focusing on the direct-damaging invocations, because of the way that power level scaling works.  (I.e., it increases DAM, ACC, PEN, and missiles/bounces, so the more of those elements are in the spell, the more a PL boost helps.)  As such, Thrice Was She Wronged is your mainstay for the early-mid game.  And it's really a pretty decent small-AoE nuke.  Group enemies tightly, ideally get their Wounds Combusting-- it's a multi-hit attack, so a Wizard with CW is big boost to damage-- and zap 'em. 

 

At one point I tried to test out whether and how PL scaling generated more Thrice attacks, but I lost steam and gave up.  I think I was seeing more attack rolls than the base 3 zaps and 1 bounce (upgrade) can account for, but never worked out why and how. 

Edited February 15, 2019 by Enoch

[Boeroer]

I'm a big fan of the PL 5 upgrade to Ben Fidel.  The -10 debuff to all defenses is pretty awesome.  

Right! Especially since it stacks with most other debuffs. Actually I know none with which it doesn't stack. 

[Boeroer]

Afaik Power Level doesn't add zaps to "Thrice...". Only the usual base dmg etc.

[Crumbleton]

Yeah I'm testing out bellower now and Thrice is doing quite well for me it explodes smaller groups.

 

I'm looking at using grave calling / singing scimitar so I can cast my damage, empower a skeleton summon and kill them foe the foe only chill fog ( I think that's how it works?) While I wait for my chants to recharge I guess...

 

Because I'm honestly not so sure I should be using bellower I kind of think a troubador with way more frequent nukes may be better, but at the same time these things wreck so idk!

[Boeroer]

Why would you empower your skeleton summons? The only effect would be tht they stay longer - which they can't if you murder them.  

[Jayd]

Thanks for the helpful comments so far.

 

Wanted to mention Sasha's Singing Scimitar, which seems pretty mandatory for a Bellower. I'm thinking I would use the Encore upgrade so I can pop two heavy invocations back to back in a tough fight. Refreshing Finale seems good and the more popular choice (from what I've seen) but I have a little policy saying choose the best build for any given encounter, not one that is only good across several (without rest). Encore seems really good for gaining control of a fight early - good enough to need to rest here and there. Resting does restore all empower points at once right? I've never really paid attention.

Thoughts?

[Frak]

Now, I've mainly been offensive on my skald, so I cannot really talk about buffs and summons from experience.

 

But the added power levels means - as long as they don't die - that you can probably chain cast most buffs and and summons. Just an FYI.

[hilfazer]

 

I'm a big fan of the PL 5 upgrade to Ben Fidel.  The -10 debuff to all defenses is pretty awesome.

Right! Especially since it stacks with most other debuffs. Actually I know none with which it doesn't stack.

 

Why does it stack? What's the rule here?

[Taudis]

Thanks for the helpful comments so far.

 

Wanted to mention Sasha's Singing Scimitar, which seems pretty mandatory for a Bellower. I'm thinking I would use the Encore upgrade so I can pop two heavy invocations back to back in a tough fight. Refreshing Finale seems good and the more popular choice (from what I've seen) but I have a little policy saying choose the best build for any given encounter, not one that is only good across several (without rest). Encore seems really good for gaining control of a fight early - good enough to need to rest here and there. Resting does restore all empower points at once right? I've never really paid attention.

Thoughts?

Refreshing Finale ends up effectively returning 4 phrases due to invocation cast time taking up most/all of another phrase. My experience is mostly with Troubs and Skalds so I don't know if a Bellower really wants the refill but 4 is plenty if your goal is mostly just chain casting. If you don't mind resting more often, Encore allowing back-to-back Eld Narys is very good, though as a single class you'll probably find that an empowered, upgraded, bellowed Eld Nary is enough damage and you'd rather be following up with utility.

[Crumbleton]

Why would you empower your skeleton summons? The only effect would be tht they stay longer - which they can't if you murder them.

Mainly so I have something to do I'm combat =p instead of waiting for those 3 chanting phrases. Although ill probably just turn the per rest items to per encounter and not look back lol

[Boeroer]

 

 

I'm a big fan of the PL 5 upgrade to Ben Fidel.  The -10 debuff to all defenses is pretty awesome.

Right! Especially since it stacks with most other debuffs. Actually I know none with which it doesn't stack.

 

Why does it stack? What's the rule here?

 

The (somewhat obscure) rule is that debuffs to "all defenses" stack with debuffs to "defense x only"*. It seems to be a different category of debuff (code-wise) und thus stacks. That makes it an awesome Invocation for a debuffer or a group of debuffers. For example with the weakening chant "The Long Night's Drink" (-5 CON, -2 MIG, targets fortitude), the stunning invocation "Its Crash Could not be Denied" (-5 MIG, +10 ACC, targets reflex!) a Morning Star and a Club (target deflection or fortitude) and Ben Fidel's Neck (targets will) a group of Fighter, Wizard, Barb and Chanter can lower Will and Fortitude in an AoE so much that most encounters become supereasy. You simply look for the weakest defense (e.g. deflection) and then start with the debuff which targets that (in this case a Heart of Fury with clubs for example which lowers Will by 25). Then follow up with the debuff that targets the lowered will (Ben Fidel's Neck, -10 to all), add a Miasma (-10 deflection, -20 reflex, -40 will), follow with the stunning invocation to lower fortitude by 10, the chant usually hits, lowering fortitude by another 10, then do a Clean Sweep or Clear the Path with Morning Star to lower fortitude more while the barb switched to fails and lowered reflex by anohter 25 with HoF and suddenly all defenses of the enemies are so ridiculously low that you pulverize them with you damage dealing abilities. That's why I currently like single classes better than muliclasses (in a full party): the powerful synergies unfold much earlier and some things (HoF with club or flail or so or Clean Sweep) you only get as single class char. SSS and FS become very easy with such a party because no matter how high the enemies' defenses are - usually there is one that is rather low compared to the rest (by design). And if you can manage to slide your first debuffs in there and crack the other defenses open it's over quickly.    

 

)* It's the same with buffs by the way: Vigorous Defense or Llengrath's Safeguard (+20 to all defenses) stack with Mirrored Image (+30 to deflection only).

 

Edit:+/- typos

Edited February 17, 2019 by Boeroer