Poll: What Build Herald do you follow?

[michel.montenegro]

Linger is good, because you can benefit from two different phrases at the same time. It's like two auras running simultaneously.

 

Only the Troubadour has this advantage of having 2 simultaneous effects?

 

What is the difference between the Linger of the Troubadour (Brisk Recitation: On) of the others?

 

 

No, one character may only have one summon on the field at a time.

If you have two characters, they can both have one summon on the field each. Two chanters can have 6 big skeletons on the field. or 12 (beckoner) small.

Or druid character and chanter character can have sporelings and skeletons

 

I understand, in the case basically I have the power to always keep an invocation in the field.

 

Can you tell me, for how long in the game sporelings and skeletons are useful to one (Chanter / Druid)?

[michel.montenegro]

 

Doubt: Are both Kind Wayfarer and Bleak Walkers benefited from Dual Weapon? (When you hit twice activate x2 the effect? For example, the healing of 14 n end is 28? Corrosion I do not know how it works so I do not know if it's cumulative)

 

Note: FoD with Weapon + shield or 2h-Weapon, does not accumulate, only activates x1.

White Flames heal twice when used with dual-wielding.

Additionally you can stack enough passives for ~x1.77 healing done; and that's 2x14*1.77 = 49.56 which you can deliver every 3s if you want, with a fast weapon in offhand. And that's... a quite decent HPS, if we compare it with stuff like Consecrated Ground... although it is limited by zeal. And that's why I am thinking of Wayfarer/Tactician as main healer for my next run.

 

Btw, if you have a bashing shield it is still counted as dual-wielding (this is especially note-worthy for wayfarer/monks with Tuotilo's Palm).

 

For this reasons I would prefer Wayfarer over Steel Garrote in majority of non-solo cases.

For solo though, it would be another story, because SG can heal from weapon damage even with simple auto-attacks.

 

P.S. As for poll... it depends whom am I building.

If I had to make a summoner herald for a 5-man party, it would mostly likely be a summoner support.

So dumped PER, and not relying on weapon damage.

In this case:

- Wayfarer, Bleakwalker and Steel Garrote are out.

- Shieldbearer - is welcome IF I have someone built around using Barring Deaths Door, like Bloodmage.

- Goldpact - is welcome, due to extra tankiness.

- Darcozzi - just why?

 

 

 

1) Bash Shield, is it a specific type of shield? or is this for all the shields?

If you hit with sword and shield with Wayfarer I will have 28 healing, instead of 14 (Well does he consider 14 * 2)? Or does this shield effect only occur when I hit or use a specific skill?

 

2) What does PER mean?

 

3) The self-healing of the Steel Garrote, is it that efficient in auto attack? How much does he heal per hit? (I could explain, it's the first time I see anyone here talking about this subclass)

 

4) You mentioned the cases in which you go as a group, preferring to go as a Support for the team, I noticed that you removed from the Wayfarer, Bleakwalker and Steel Garrote list. Are these subclasses bad for support?

 

- Steel Garrote: I understand he heals only himself, but would not that leave your tank alive longer, giving more security to the team?

 

- Wayfarer: Is there no area healing helping summoning or other knocking around?

 

- Bleakwalker: He really has no bonus to support (Survival to the team), but its effect in area seems that can be exploited in favor of the team.

Darcozzi: No one seems to like him (In The Herald).

 

- Goldpact - It seems that the only advantage of it is that it gives you an extra armor (I think of 4), is that it?

 

"Shieldbearer - is welcome IF I have someone built around using Barring Deaths Door, like Bloodmage."

Could you explain the combo?

Lay of Hand = 3s does not die

Barring = Do not let it die, is that it?

How do they both work together?

 

https://pillarsofeternity2.wiki.fextralife.com/Blood+Mage

https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Barring_Death%27s_Door

 

Note: I saw that there are combos with Wayfarer and Bleakwalker, availing themselves of their effects, but no one explains correctly or completely how to make these combos.

[thelee]

Only the Troubadour has this advantage of having 2 simultaneous effects?

What is the difference between the Linger of the Troubadour (Brisk Recitation: On) of the others?

 

All chanters have a default linger for their chants of 3s, which is extendable by intellect. The troubadour is special in that they get an inherent +50%, which with 20 intellect means they can have perfect 100% uptime on two chants.  With extremely high intellect they can even get decent uptime on three different chants.

 

Also, I was skimming this thread, so sorry if this duplicates something someone else mentioned, but while you're limited to one set of summons (via invocation/items) the chant that pops a skeleton into existence ignores any summon limits, so you can have an army of skeletons on top of whatever summons you create.

 

Oh yes. You cannot have two different summons at the same time from one character. This is why I also prefer beckoner. More summons at given time.

 

 

In my experience, Beckoner is extremely powerful for like 90% maybe 95% of the fights, but Troubadour's advantage of being able to switch on Brisk Recitation helps me put it over the top for a summoning herald, because for bosses or megabosses pulling in summons faster might be much more important than getting a lot of weaker summons in one go, and those are the fights where you really need the help.

 

Not to mention that Brisk Recitation's reduced chant time and lack of linger is actually not a drawback for many of the chants (the one that grants a damage reduction shield, the one that creates a skeleton, the one that removes concentration from enemies, and all the resistance ones).

Edited January 28, 2019 by thelee

[Boeroer]

Brisk Recitation as also no influence on the chants that do a hit roll to apply a 10-sec effect (Dragon Trashed, Soft Winds, Weakening Chant, Concentration Removal Chant and so on). They only keep coming faster (easier to stack).

[michel.montenegro]

 

Only the Troubadour has this advantage of having 2 simultaneous effects?

What is the difference between the Linger of the Troubadour (Brisk Recitation: On) of the others?

 

All chanters have a default linger for their chants of 3s, which is extendable by intellect. The troubadour is special in that they get an inherent +50%, which with 20 intellect means they can have perfect 100% uptime on two chants.  With extremely high intellect they can even get decent uptime on three different chants.

 

Also, I was skimming this thread, so sorry if this duplicates something someone else mentioned, but while you're limited to one set of summons (via invocation/items) the chant that pops a skeleton into existence ignores any summon limits, so you can have an army of skeletons on top of whatever summons you create.

 

Oh yes. You cannot have two different summons at the same time from one character. This is why I also prefer beckoner. More summons at given time.

 

 

In my experience, Beckoner is extremely powerful for like 90% maybe 95% of the fights, but Troubadour's advantage of being able to switch on Brisk Recitation helps me put it over the top for a summoning herald, because for bosses or megabosses pulling in summons faster might be much more important than getting a lot of weaker summons in one go, and those are the fights where you really need the help.

 

Not to mention that Brisk Recitation's reduced chant time and lack of linger is actually not a drawback for many of the chants (the one that grants a damage reduction shield, the one that creates a skeleton, the one that removes concentration from enemies, and all the resistance ones).

 

 

 

1) I understand that the troubadour has a passive effect that ends up guaranteeing 100% time in two chants (guaranteeing two simultaneous effects), but this with 'Brisk Recitation' active? Or just deactivate?

Note: If you need to disable it will be bad, because it is his advantage to have faster phrases, so I would have to choose between more invocations or more corners at the same time.

Note 2: Extreme intellect do you say a 30?

 

2) The other Chanters (eg, Beckoner) have a 3s linger (Increasing by INT), can they also reach the time of 2 or 3 Chants at the same time?

 

3) What is the name of the Chant that maintains constant invocations of skeletons? (Are they skeletons initial? Are they affected by the effect of the Beckoner (x2), have the same duration of the skeletons or more?)

Note: With them there is no limit, I'm sending invocations in the field without stopping, then? Is there any Paladin aura that will increase their speed of production?

 

4) Do you think Druid / Chanter (Theurge) is a more efficient summoner than Paladin / Chanter (Herald)?

Note: The passive effects of the Paladin seem to give more power, durability invocations, and since each character can only have an instance of invocations, I do not know if it is worthwhile to leave in the "Reservation" invocations.

 

5) Beckoner is strong in 90 ~ 95% of cases according to your experience, practically strong the whole game, but this going with Herald or pure Chanter?

Note: 90 ~ 95% is basically the whole game!

 

6) Have not the songs you quoted from Troubadour been disadvantaged with 'Brisk Recitation', for what reason? Are they different from the other Chants?

 

7) So what makes Troubadour, so chosen in the poll, is the fact of the most difficult fights (even though they are less of a game, they are vital), it ends up "shining / appearing" more than Beckoner, that?

[michel.montenegro]

Brisk Recitation as also no influence on the chants that do a hit roll to apply a 10-sec effect (Dragon Trashed, Soft Winds, Weakening Chant, Concentration Removal Chant and so on). They only keep coming faster (easier to stack).

 

Because of my low esp. with these various classes, I am confused about this.

 

Are there chants that are not influenced by 'Brisk Recitation'? so its effects remain normal and so it has to stack up to 3 effects even with this active? (Or just deactivating?)

[thelee]

 

 

Only the Troubadour has this advantage of having 2 simultaneous effects?

What is the difference between the Linger of the Troubadour (Brisk Recitation: On) of the others?

 

All chanters have a default linger for their chants of 3s, which is extendable by intellect. The troubadour is special in that they get an inherent +50%, which with 20 intellect means they can have perfect 100% uptime on two chants.  With extremely high intellect they can even get decent uptime on three different chants.

 

Also, I was skimming this thread, so sorry if this duplicates something someone else mentioned, but while you're limited to one set of summons (via invocation/items) the chant that pops a skeleton into existence ignores any summon limits, so you can have an army of skeletons on top of whatever summons you create.

 

Oh yes. You cannot have two different summons at the same time from one character. This is why I also prefer beckoner. More summons at given time.

 

In my experience, Beckoner is extremely powerful for like 90% maybe 95% of the fights, but Troubadour's advantage of being able to switch on Brisk Recitation helps me put it over the top for a summoning herald, because for bosses or megabosses pulling in summons faster might be much more important than getting a lot of weaker summons in one go, and those are the fights where you really need the help.

 

Not to mention that Brisk Recitation's reduced chant time and lack of linger is actually not a drawback for many of the chants (the one that grants a damage reduction shield, the one that creates a skeleton, the one that removes concentration from enemies, and all the resistance ones).

 

 

 

1) I understand that the troubadour has a passive effect that ends up guaranteeing 100% time in two chants (guaranteeing two simultaneous effects), but this with 'Brisk Recitation' active? Or just deactivate?

Note: If you need to disable it will be bad, because it is his advantage to have faster phrases, so I would have to choose between more invocations or more corners at the same time.

Note 2: Extreme intellect do you say a 30?

 

2) The other Chanters (eg, Beckoner) have a 3s linger (Increasing by INT), can they also reach the time of 2 or 3 Chants at the same time?

 

3) What is the name of the Chant that maintains constant invocations of skeletons? (Are they skeletons initial? Are they affected by the effect of the Beckoner (x2), have the same duration of the skeletons or more?)

Note: With them there is no limit, I'm sending invocations in the field without stopping, then? Is there any Paladin aura that will increase their speed of production?

 

4) Do you think Druid / Chanter (Theurge) is a more efficient summoner than Paladin / Chanter (Herald)?

Note: The passive effects of the Paladin seem to give more power, durability invocations, and since each character can only have an instance of invocations, I do not know if it is worthwhile to leave in the "Reservation" invocations.

 

5) Beckoner is strong in 90 ~ 95% of cases according to your experience, practically strong the whole game, but this going with Herald or pure Chanter?

Note: 90 ~ 95% is basically the whole game!

 

6) Have not the songs you quoted from Troubadour been disadvantaged with 'Brisk Recitation', for what reason? Are they different from the other Chants?

 

7) So what makes Troubadour, so chosen in the poll, is the fact of the most difficult fights (even though they are less of a game, they are vital), it ends up "shining / appearing" more than Beckoner, that?

 

 

1. The extended linger duration is what you get by default as a troubadour. Brisk Recitation is a separate ability the troubadour gets that completely disables all linger and halves chant time. With all due respect, just try rolling a troubaoudr for like 10 minutes and you'll see.

2. For other chanters to get 100% uptime, they would need 30 intellect (+100% duration), since each poitn of intellect above 10 gives you +5% duration.

3. I had too look it up because chant names are so hard to remember: "Many lives pass by, each leaving footprints" available at AL7. They are not affected by beckoner, because beckoner only affects invocations.

4. why druid/chanter? i think the summons from the druid would clash with the summons you get from chanter (since you only get one set). also some people  (waiting for Marigoldan to chime in) would sing the virtues of Heralds for all time.

5. Either way. Even if you're multiclassing, the AL7 summon for animated weapons is extremely powerful. 90-95% is most of the game, but like I said for some of the hardest fights (incl megabosses), it might not matter if you were able to do 95% of the rest of the game if you need the extra help for the last few extremely difficult fights. This is up to you, really.

6. Boeroer kind of clarifies for some angles. For specific cases:

• the 10-pt damage shield ("Her courage thick as steel") only refreshes every time the chant starts up again, so reducing it down to 3s actually makes it much better, because once the stasis shield is eliminated, other chanters have to wait longer before getting another. (I recently discovered that this chant on a troubadour works really well against Hauani O Whe, who uses a attack that can potentially perpetually debuff a party member with 9.6 raw damage every 3s (if you don't move). With this chant active with brisk recitation, you can basically ignore the debuff forever, since you'll always have a stasis shield up to absorb the damage, whereas other chanters can't do that.)
• the one that creates skeletons doesn't have normal linger effects (and according to Boeroer, neither to most of the ones that roll to-hit on enemies), so the fact that you lose linger is completely irrelevant. You create a skeleton with a 10s summon duration (+ intellect bonus) regardless of brisk recitation, so you can create one every 3s and have a small army.
• for the anti-concentration one ("Thick grew their tongues, stumbling o'er words") brisk recitation means you make an attempt to strip all concentration off an enemy much more frequently. While you miss out on leaving a long debuff on the enemy to prevent htem from gaining more concentration, in practice I find that preventing enemies from gaining concentration is a much less important effect than stripping any concentration away to begin with.
• for all the resistance ones, every time a resistance chant activates it downgrades any existing afflictions. So it can be much more powerful to have this on a 3s clock instead of having a 6s-plus-linger resistance shield.  In other words, if you get hit by Terrify, you resist that down to Frightened, and then within 3s it gets resisted back down to Shaken, and then 3s later you resist it away completely - basically the game doesn't remember that you "already" resisted the initial effect. Normal chants can still do the same thing, but does it too much slower to be too relevant (every 6 seconds at most).

7. I can't speak for how other people voted, but that's why I voted. In addition, Troubadours are much more generally versatile, whereas Beckoner is really focused-in on summons. 

 

 

Brisk Recitation as also no influence on the chants that do a hit roll to apply a 10-sec effect (Dragon Trashed, Soft Winds, Weakening Chant, Concentration Removal Chant and so on). They only keep coming faster (easier to stack).

 

Because of my low esp. with these various classes, I am confused about this.

 

Are there chants that are not influenced by 'Brisk Recitation'? so its effects remain normal and so it has to stack up to 3 effects even with this active? (Or just deactivating?)

 

See above #6. I don't think the chants stack on enemies, but against high-defense foes, trying every 3s to land a chant can be very effective, versus only getting a shot every 6s.

Edited January 28, 2019 by thelee

[michel.montenegro]

See above #6. I don't think the chants stack on enemies, but against high-defense foes, trying every 3s to land a chant can be very effective, versus only getting a shot every 6s.

I did not ask of stack effects on enemies, but it was actually about active benefits simultaneously.

Ex.: Linger is good, because you can benefit from two different phrases at the same time. by  @Frak

 

 

@thelee Then

Troubadours = 2 chants Effect on is the Standard, even with 'Brisk Recitation' active. (You can reach 3 with an Intellect of 30)

Beckoner = 2 chants Effect on if intelect 30 (But you can not have more than 2 active effects)

 

Correct?

Edited January 28, 2019 by michel.montenegro

[thelee]

@thelee Then

Troubadours = 2 chants Effect on is the Standard, even with 'Brisk Recitation' active. (You can reach 3 with an Intellect of 30)

Beckoner = 2 chants Effect on if intelect 30 (But you can not have more than 2 active effects)

 

Correct?

 

No, with troubadour, intellect of 30 will only get you partial uptime on a third chant. You would need 40 (literally impossible) to get 100% uptime on 3.

 

With Brisk Recitation, you have no linger, and it is literally impossible to have uptime on more than one chant for buffs (may be different for some other types of chants).

 

In all honesty, this is some of the most basic parts of how a chanter works - can you really not just create a new game with a chanter (or hire a chanter in an existing game) and just spend a few minutes watching how they work?

Edited January 28, 2019 by thelee

[michel.montenegro]

 

@thelee Then

Troubadours = 2 chants Effect on is the Standard, even with 'Brisk Recitation' active. (You can reach 3 with an Intellect of 30)

Beckoner = 2 chants Effect on if intelect 30 (But you can not have more than 2 active effects)

 

Correct?

 

No, with troubadour, intellect of 30 will only get you partial uptime on a third chant. You would need 40 (literally impossible) to get 100% uptime on 3.

 

With Brisk Recitation, you have no linger, and it is literally impossible to have uptime on more than one chant for buffs (may be different for some other types of chants).

 

In all honesty, this is some of the most basic parts of how a chanter works - can you really not just create a new game with a chanter (or hire a chanter in an existing game) and just spend a few minutes watching how they work?

 

 

I have 2 Heralds and lv down, but this seems confusing to me (I do not know how in the game for 30 or 40 quick tests), type ShadowKeeper dp Baldur's Gate 2.

 

Troubadour

• Max 2 chants effects (Running at the same time) this with an INT 20.
• With Brisk Recitation, you only have 1 Chant effect running at a time.
• 40 INT to have 3 Chants, with 'Brisk Recitation' off (But it's almost impossible to have so many points)

Beckoner

• Max 2 chants effects (Running at the same time) this with an INT 20.
• Unlike the Troubadour, you can get up to 3 effects running at the same time with 30 INT

Now it's correct?

Edited January 28, 2019 by michel.montenegro

[thelee]

 

 

@thelee Then

Troubadours = 2 chants Effect on is the Standard, even with 'Brisk Recitation' active. (You can reach 3 with an Intellect of 30)

Beckoner = 2 chants Effect on if intelect 30 (But you can not have more than 2 active effects)

 

Correct?

 

No, with troubadour, intellect of 30 will only get you partial uptime on a third chant. You would need 40 (literally impossible) to get 100% uptime on 3.

 

With Brisk Recitation, you have no linger, and it is literally impossible to have uptime on more than one chant for buffs (may be different for some other types of chants).

 

In all honesty, this is some of the most basic parts of how a chanter works - can you really not just create a new game with a chanter (or hire a chanter in an existing game) and just spend a few minutes watching how they work?

 

 

I have 2 Heralds and lv down, lv2 but this seems confusing to me (I do not know how in the game for 30 or 40 quick tests), type ShadowKeeper dp Baldur's Gate 2.

 

Troubadour

• Max 2 chants effects (Running at the same time) this with an INT 20.
• With Brisk Recitation, you only have 1 Chant effect running at a time.
• 40 INT to have 3 Chants, with 'Brisk Recitation' off (But it's almost impossible to have so many points)

Beckoner

• Max 2 chants effects (Running at the same time) this with an INT 20.
• Unlike the Troubadour, you can get up to 3 effects running at the same time with 30 INT

Now it's correct?

 

 

No. I'm sorry, but not even close.

 

a) you are literally capped at 35 for a stat, so it's not "almost impossible" but literally impossible.

b) you can have multiple chant effects with brisk recitation, that's what boeroer and I have been alluding to.

c) you got the beckoner completely wrong.

 

I'm going to re-iterate the basics of a chanter:

 

1. Most chants have a 6s "active" duration and then a 3s "linger". The "linger" means that the chant is still active even if you start singing a different chant. In this way you can overlap chants. By default (10 intellect) you will can sing one song for 6s, then it will go into linger mode for 3s, during which you can start singing a different song, and for the first 3s you can have two different chants active.

2. The linger duration is affected by intellect. Please look up what intellect does. This is what determines what I'm talking about "uptime."

3. Troubadour gets a special passive effect that extends linger additively with intellect by 1.5s (+50%).

4. Troubadour also gets a toggle called "Brisk Recitation." While active, your chants do not linger at all and your "active" duration is reduced to 3s.

 

Basically troubadours have the option of being able to either a) buff allies more by having chants overlap for longer OR b) cycle through chants very quickly and do invocations rapidly at the cost of not buffing allies as well with chants.

Edited January 28, 2019 by thelee

[michel.montenegro]

No. I'm sorry, but not even close.

 

a) you are literally capped at 35 for a stat, so it's not "almost impossible" but literally impossible.

b) you can have multiple chant effects with brisk recitation, that's what boeroer and I have been alluding to.

c) you got the beckoner completely wrong.

 

I'm going to re-iterate the basics of a chanter:

 

1. Most chants have a 6s "active" duration and then a 3s "linger". The "linger" means that the chant is still active even if you start singing a different chant. In this way you can overlap chants. By default (10 intellect) you will can sing one song for 6s, then it will go into linger mode for 3s, during which you can start singing a different song, and for the first 3s you can have two different chants active.

2. The linger duration is affected by intellect. Please look up what intellect does. This is what determines what I'm talking about "uptime."

3. Troubadour gets a special passive effect that extends linger additively with intellect by 1.5s (+50%).

4. Troubadour also gets a toggle called "Brisk Recitation." While active, your chants do not linger at all and your "active" duration is reduced to 3s.

 

Basically troubadours have the option of being able to either a) buff allies more by having chants overlap for longer OR b) cycle through chants very quickly and do invocations rapidly at the cost of not buffing allies as well with chants.

 

 

I now understand, because Troubadours is so "dear", it is versatile, I can choose between maximizing my invocation power or improving Chants overlap (One thing or another, I have to decide), this all spending little intellect (Spends less than the other Chanters to have the same result) that increases the duration of his spells.

 

- Invocations or Chants, I have to choose which will be the real beneficiary by activating or deactivating 'Brisk Recitation'.

 

Correct?

 

If it's correct then all I have left is a question, Beckoner.

 

He has no bonus and no penalty for Chants has the same effect as the other Chanters "Default". The gain and loss of this class is solely and exclusively in the invocations:

-50% HP / Duration / Size of invocations

 

In return, it manages to do twice as many invocations as normal damage (I do not know if other effects will also).

Edited January 28, 2019 by michel.montenegro

[thelee]

 

No. I'm sorry, but not even close.

 

a) you are literally capped at 35 for a stat, so it's not "almost impossible" but literally impossible.

b) you can have multiple chant effects with brisk recitation, that's what boeroer and I have been alluding to.

c) you got the beckoner completely wrong.

 

I'm going to re-iterate the basics of a chanter:

 

1. Most chants have a 6s "active" duration and then a 3s "linger". The "linger" means that the chant is still active even if you start singing a different chant. In this way you can overlap chants. By default (10 intellect) you will can sing one song for 6s, then it will go into linger mode for 3s, during which you can start singing a different song, and for the first 3s you can have two different chants active.

2. The linger duration is affected by intellect. Please look up what intellect does. This is what determines what I'm talking about "uptime."

3. Troubadour gets a special passive effect that extends linger additively with intellect by 1.5s (+50%).

4. Troubadour also gets a toggle called "Brisk Recitation." While active, your chants do not linger at all and your "active" duration is reduced to 3s.

 

Basically troubadours have the option of being able to either a) buff allies more by having chants overlap for longer OR b) cycle through chants very quickly and do invocations rapidly at the cost of not buffing allies as well with chants.

 

I now understand, because Troubadours is so "dear", it is versatile, I can choose between maximizing my invocation power or improving Chants overlap (One thing or another, I have to decide), this all spending little intellect (Spends less than the other Chanters to have the same result) that increases the duration of his spells.

 

- Invocations or Chants, I have to choose which will be the real beneficiary by activating or deactivating 'Brisk Recitation'.

 

Correct?

 

If it's correct then all I have left is a question, Beckoner.

 

He has no bonus and no penalty for Chants has the same effect as the other Chanters "Default". The gain and loss of this class is solely and exclusively in the invocations:

-50% HP / Duration / Size of invocations

 

In return, it manages to do twice as many invocations as normal damage (I do not know if other effects will also).

 

If I made the correct account 2 incantations overlap too (At a cost close to 30 INT), while doing double invocations (Higher DPS)

 

 

AFAICT, beckoner only has -50% to HP and size of summons (no effect on duration). Not all invocations are summons, please note which invocations are keyworded as "Summon Invocation."

 

If I made the correct account 2 incantations overlap too (At a cost close to 30 INT),

what on earth?? 

 

where are you even getting these ideas?

 

you can only have one set of summons at a time. You cannot ever have two different summon invocations active, no matter the intellect.

[Enoch]

• for all the resistance ones, every time a resistance chant activates it downgrades any existing afflictions. So it can be much more powerful to have this on a 3s clock instead of having a 6s-plus-linger resistance shield.  In other words, if you get hit by Terrify, you resist that down to Frightened, and then within 3s it gets resisted back down to Shaken, and then 3s later you resist it away completely - basically the game doesn't remember that you "already" resisted the initial effect. Normal chants can still do the same thing, but does it too much slower to be too relevant (every 6 seconds at most).

Wait, seriously?  This seems like a bug, given its inconsistency with how Resistance works in other contexts.  (I.e., that different sources of Resistance can't be stacked)

Edited January 28, 2019 by Enoch

[thelee]

 

• for all the resistance ones, every time a resistance chant activates it downgrades any existing afflictions. So it can be much more powerful to have this on a 3s clock instead of having a 6s-plus-linger resistance shield.  In other words, if you get hit by Terrify, you resist that down to Frightened, and then within 3s it gets resisted back down to Shaken, and then 3s later you resist it away completely - basically the game doesn't remember that you "already" resisted the initial effect. Normal chants can still do the same thing, but does it too much slower to be too relevant (every 6 seconds at most).

Wait, seriously?  This seems like a bug, given its inconsistency with how Resistance works in other contexts.  (I.e., that different sources of Resistance can't be stacked)

 

 

it's possibly a bug, but one that I feel might be very hard to actually address, since you'd have to implement some sort of "memory" for these kinds of effects. i think the way it's working is that your resistance "falls off" and then comes back again, so it's not really an issue of stacking, but (again) that those debuffs just don't remember that they've already been resisted when the effect comes back on. I guess one way around it is that "gaining resistance" shouldn't be a trigger to modify existing effects, but it would make those resistance potions go from niche to useless, imo.

 

but yes, i've definitely used chanter chants to whittle away afflictions (most of them aren't long-duration enough to really matter, but e.g. i've completely eliminated enfeebled normally and with a troubadour even modestly long afflictions can be whittled away).

Edited January 28, 2019 by thelee

[Enoch]

Does it work on characters who already have Resistance to the appropriate category of affliction?

[Enoch]

For those using the default page breaks, my comment immediately above refers to this exchange:

 

 

 

• for all the resistance ones, every time a resistance chant activates it downgrades any existing afflictions. So it can be much more powerful to have this on a 3s clock instead of having a 6s-plus-linger resistance shield.  In other words, if you get hit by Terrify, you resist that down to Frightened, and then within 3s it gets resisted back down to Shaken, and then 3s later you resist it away completely - basically the game doesn't remember that you "already" resisted the initial effect. Normal chants can still do the same thing, but does it too much slower to be too relevant (every 6 seconds at most).

Wait, seriously?  This seems like a bug, given its inconsistency with how Resistance works in other contexts.  (I.e., that different sources of Resistance can't be stacked)

 

 

it's possibly a bug, but one that I feel might be very hard to actually address, since you'd have to implement some sort of "memory" for these kinds of effects. i think the way it's working is that your resistance "falls off" and then comes back again, so it's not really an issue of stacking, but (again) that those debuffs just don't remember that they've already been resisted when the effect comes back on. I guess one way around it is that "gaining resistance" shouldn't be a trigger to modify existing effects, but it would make those resistance potions go from niche to useless, imo.

 

but yes, i've definitely used chanter chants to whittle away afflictions (most of them aren't long-duration enough to really matter, but e.g. i've completely eliminated enfeebled normally and with a troubadour even modestly long afflictions can be whittled away).

 

[thelee]

Does it work on characters who already have Resistance to the appropriate category of affliction?

 

I actually have no idea, the main chant i use for this is the one that gives con/resolve resistance, and i hardly ever run or use any con/resolve equipment or racials (funnily enough I use literally every other one: might, dex, int, per). might be interesting to test, would be a weird interaction for those characters that already have the appropriate resistance.

Edited January 28, 2019 by thelee

[michel.montenegro]

Except for deception they showed a screen, where it said that the duration of the invocations was smaller.

Ignore that comment, my English is not good, but reading more calmly I understood.

 

but yes, i've definitely used chanter chants to whittle away afflictions (most of them aren't long-duration enough to really matter, but e.g. i've completely eliminated enfeebled normally and with a troubadour even modestly long afflictions can be whittled away).

 

 
Did you specify troubadour, but the same can be done with Beckoner?

 

Edited January 28, 2019 by michel.montenegro

[thelee]

Except for deception they showed a screen, where it said that the duration of the invocations was smaller.

 

Ignore that comment, my English is not good, but reading more calmly I understood.

 

but yes, i've definitely used chanter chants to whittle away afflictions (most of them aren't long-duration enough to really matter, but e.g. i've completely eliminated enfeebled normally and with a troubadour even modestly long afflictions can be whittled away).

 

 

Did you specify troubadour, but the same can be done with Beckoner?

 

 

my mistake, it's been a while since I rolled a beckoner.

 

for resistances: the same can be done with beckoner, it's just that by default 6s is so slow that it might not be as effective at doing so.

[Frak]

Wow, that gotta be a bug. Your theory about not remembering previous resistance sounds plausible.

 

But then again, chanters is best class, so maybe working as intended

[Frak]

With extremely high intellect they can even get decent uptime on three different chants.

 

 

 

Oh. my mistake. I thought this was mechanically impossible. 

 

Solution: Nerf Troubadour!

[michel.montenegro]

 

Except for deception they showed a screen, where it said that the duration of the invocations was smaller.

 

Ignore that comment, my English is not good, but reading more calmly I understood.

 

but yes, i've definitely used chanter chants to whittle away afflictions (most of them aren't long-duration enough to really matter, but e.g. i've completely eliminated enfeebled normally and with a troubadour even modestly long afflictions can be whittled away).

 

 

Did you specify troubadour, but the same can be done with Beckoner?

 

 

my mistake, it's been a while since I rolled a beckoner.

 

for resistances: the same can be done with beckoner, it's just that by default 6s is so slow that it might not be as effective at doing so.

 

 

I'm thinking of going with Beckoner, but they talk so much about the Troubadour, it seems like everything else is bad, and the "fear" of regret ...

 

They say that Wurm gets very strong with Beckoner, with some skills, etc. I wanted to build Beckoner or at least know which of his strongest combos to value.

Note: I already looked for Builds and only make Troubadour with Herald. 

[Frak]

Welcome to the joy of restartitis. When you restart every time because you want to try new class

[thelee]

Welcome to the joy of restartitis. When you restart every time because you want to try new class

 

My solution is to not worry about it too much, beat the game with the current build, and do a new game with the next build, instead of trying to get the current run "just right."

 

Of course, this is also how I end up with 600+ hours on Deadfire and not much of a social life outside of family...

Edited January 28, 2019 by thelee