The Pillars of Eternity No Reload Challenge

[Boeroer]

One "win button" for a no reload challenge would be to use a chanter, skill him for maxed Dragon Thrashed ACC and damage and give him one single weapon. Then bring a priest.

 

The reasons are:

 

- Dragon Thrashed keeps on working even when the Chanter is withdrawn (Priest spell).

- Dragon Thrashed gets +12 ACC from single weapon usage (seems like it's a bug, never got fixed)

 

You end up with a high ACC burning/slashing "totem" which can't get killed and blocks chokepoints.

 

Another one is to bring a Cipher and equip same Chanter with an Preservation item and the Solace shield or Little Savior (which I mentioned above). I don't know if this got fixed lately, but Withdraw is an official "stun" effect and thus used to trigger Preservation, giving the Chanter +100 to all defenses. Then cast Defensive Mindweb. All party members will share the insane defenses of the withdrawn Chanter...

 

Chanter can't get killed and at the same time damages all enemies big time = you can't lose = win button.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Boeroer

[Alesia_BH]

Interesting, Boeroer! Your insights are always appreciated. It's a pleasure to have you with us!

 

Those particular tactics sounds a little too far on the exploity-side of the spectrum for my taste, but I always enjoy learning about game mechanics. Noted and filed! 

 

Cheers,

 

A.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Alesia_BH

[Alesia_BH]

Ashoka: Pale Elf, Kind Wayfarer- Entry 8 Minor Quests in and Around Defiance Bay

 

Lady Webb is clearly an OG no reloader.

 

https://us.v-cdn.net/5019558/uploads/editor/t9/4ukbpuyfucpt.jpg

 

Anyhoo. In our last session, Ashoka and pals completed some minor quests in and around the D, including The Parable of Wael, Built to Last, and At All Costs. These quests furnished an opportunity to practice our party fighting tactics in preparation for the assault on Raedric's Hold. We don't have it down yet, but we're getting there. All of these fights were flat out slaughters.

 

Ok! It's party time! Let's start with The Parable of Wael. 

 

Our opening now is Ogrnd: Armor of Faith->Circle of Protection, Cassia: Inspiring Radiance->Consecrated Ground, Aloth: Curse of Blackened Sight->Expose Vulnerabilities->Combusting Wounds. 

 

https://us.v-cdn.net/5019558/uploads/editor/i9/j0sh8n5wbhoh.jpg

 

Cassia joins Ashoka and Eder, bringing her Consecrate Ground with her. Ashoka targets squishies to trigger Strange Mercies.

 

While Ashoka and Eder engage, aided by arrows from Sagani, Cassia and Ogrnd, both Scions of Flame, drop double Divine Marks, eliminating enemies one by one. Buffs are refreshed as needed. Aloth mixes in damage spells and reapplies debuts as needed. 

 

https://us.v-cdn.net/5019558/uploads/editor/85/7acilxasfkb9.jpg

 

Looks good. No damage here, save a few nicks to Itumaak.

 

https://us.v-cdn.net/5019558/uploads/editor/tx/wszk3j6z11vf.jpg

 

Let's try it again, this time in Built to Last. 

 

Opening

 

https://us.v-cdn.net/5019558/uploads/editor/5o/fa2iq2rami7a.jpg

 

Midphase

 

https://us.v-cdn.net/5019558/uploads/editor/ei/9s9fbfx1e90j.jpg

 

Endgame

 

https://us.v-cdn.net/5019558/uploads/editor/mb/ifhdizjtq6yz.jpg

 

(Again, Itumaak took damge. We need to lock that down. Aside from that, this looks good.)

 

Finally, At All Costs

 

Opening

 

https://us.v-cdn.net/5019558/uploads/editor/7m/5g5vcp9sd3b7.jpg

 

Midphase

 

https://us.v-cdn.net/5019558/uploads/editor/d0/2paz8c1dk9xw.jpg

 

Endgame. And chickety-check Itumaak this time- all happy and healthy! Remind me: What does the fox say?

 

https://us.v-cdn.net/5019558/uploads/editor/w4/2jqdhm80kwzl.jpg

 

On that fine note, we decided to part ways with Sagani and Itumaak. They're great. in fact, Sagani is one of my favorite NPCs ever, from a personality standpoint. Pallegina just fits the strategy better. Good hunting, Sagani! May you make your way home.

 

And farewell Itumaak! We should talk more.

 

 

Best,

 

A.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Alesia_BH

[Boeroer]

Yes, it is cheesy as heck.

[Serg BlackStrider]

Good stuff! Knowledge of immunities and resistances is highly valued in NR play. I'm sure I'm not the only one who appreciated this.

 

In the BG world we had a wonderful reference: the Immunities page from YYZ's Spell Guide's. It listed every status effect in the game and every item, spell, or potion that could foil said effect (in the BG world, that's a very long list). It wasn't 100% complete, post SCS, but memorizing that list was an excellent starting point to locking down your defense. Do you have something similar in PoE Land?

 

NW: I'd link the page to illustrate, but, sadly, it's no longer active. Someone really should have archived YYZ's site. 

 

 

Are you talking about this one?

 

Group project! We should compose an immunities and resistances database, for NR player reference, and for broader community use as well.

 

How shall we divy up the labor?

 

I think we could start with this list of status affects and then add options/means to neutralize them (via items/spells).

 

What are Gloomy Face and Liresh up to, Serg and Enuhal?

 

Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity to play much in the last few days, but this will change soon. Gloomy Face just formed our core Crew of Aloth, Xoti and Eder (in that order) and hit level 3 already. I'll post of my early exploits shortly.

[Enuhal]

I sadly can't keep up with all of your posts, Alesia_BH, but I will try to adress the early game tanking weapon question and the taking out spellcasters early thing:

 

Here are some weapons that I think do a decent job for a defensive paladin early on:

a) any kind of enchanted hatchet (the only unique one you can get early is Hearth Harvest from the woodend plains)

b) Measured Restraint, the rapier from the endless path level 2 (easy to get, provides 1 free extra engagement)

c) Oidhreacht/Gaun's Share for the self-heal (endless paths 1/temple of eothas)

d) Shatterstar, sold by Sigrun in Copperlane (same as Measured Restraint, but with a bit more damage)

e) Shame or Glory for the marking buff if you decide to join the Crucible Knights (reward for their second quest)

f) Whispers of Yenwood for the constitution bonus

g) If you have the deadfire pack, the war club of the mataru can help out your party by eventually causing hobbled and weakened on your foes (and it upgrades automatically)

 

Liresh has for now settled on the War Club of the Mataru (and, if I make it that far, will propably only ever get rid of it in favor of Steadfast in WM2). With merciless companion and apprentice sneak attack on some of my characters, causing these afflictions is especially useful for group damage.

 

When it comes to taking spellcasters out: My current party setup features 5 enchanted arbalests, two of them wielded by rangers. The opening salvo is strong enough to take down basically any spellcaster, especially if improved by inspiring radiance or one or two wolf attacks.

 

Finally, I'd say that, besides understanding the basic mechanics of the game, positioning might very well be the most important factor to turn difficult challenges into easy encounters in PoE. I would recommend experimenting with luring enemies backwards, blocking off passages, keeping your backline out of combat for multiple seconds and the like - all of these can often be hugely beneficial.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Enuhal

[Enuhal]

Liresh, wild orlan Shieldbearer of St. Elcga, Update 2

 

Previous updates:

 

Introduction: https://forums.obsid...e/#entry2111091

Update 1: https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/106596-the-pillars-of-eternity-no-reload-challenge/page-2?do=findComment&comment=2111475

 

 

I did have a lot of time to play yesterday, so we managed to make some decent progress. Defiance Bay is a great place to relax and do easy quests in, and we started by exploring, picking up quests and completing some non-combat encounters. After having travelled through the city opening chests, entering buildings and the like, we ended up back in Copperlane where we started to do some fighting. I won't comment on all of the many battles, only on the ones that could potentially be difficult or the ones where we screwed up. First, there's Purnisc - I just want to mention that the room the fake Purnisc is in is much bigger than it looks, allowing for some great positioning on the southern part and a very safe party:

https://imgur.com/HjFyjuF

Nothing of importance happened while doing Copperlane and Brackenbury quests, but in Ondra's Gift, I forgot about the exact position of the opponents in the All Hands on Deck task, which is why I ended up running into them in a completely screwed up formation, with my spellcasters at the front and blocking off Liresh from reaching combat. I ended up using my first 3rd level spells to gain control of the battlefield - returning storm being the important one:

https://imgur.com/gtftYwW

After doing the minor quests (avoiding anything too challenging, such as the lighthouse and the water for now), I entered the Woodend Plains and cleared the area. The lions ended up getting lured into a chokepoint, and hold beasts turned that one into a rather easy encounter:

https://imgur.com/VXh0HL7

Eventually I moved on to the main questline, taking out sporelings and trolls at a strategic set of stairs:

https://imgur.com/TZ2VLOT

After taking the peaceful route (luckily, Shieldbearers of St. Elcga are free to be deceptive) during "Never far from the Queen", we decided that we could take on some adra animats now - and we could:

https://imgur.com/FQYEesU

We have reached a part of the game were the ranger pets are really super-powerful, dealing huge amounts of damage and not going down in every second fight. Things were looking great, I spent my money on the new soulbound items from the deadfire pack (I have never played with that one before, so I want to test them out), and I finally picked up the official companions to have someone to take care of quests at the keep. However, I forgot about something VERY important when going to get Durance. Gramrfel the Wayfarer and his huge crew of bandits. I have never faced that guy this early on, with a level 5 party. That one was a very tough battle. He seems to be a relatively high level chanter, casting summoning spells etc., and his party kept getting healed up, making it impossible for me to take down his multiple ranged weapon users with AoE spells. My ranger pets were taken down relatively early on, I was forced to counter bonded grief with eldritch aim potions. I was using my entire spellbook, and finally, once I entered my two statue summons (wood beetles and shades) into the mix, I was able to focus him down:

https://imgur.com/2s0EkZp

By then, some of his crew had made it into my backline (something I had managed to avoid for quite a long time). With everyone out of spells, I had very little damage left. I ended up suffering two knockouts, with Liresh having to drink potions to stay alive, until I was finally able to take down the last of my opponents:

https://imgur.com/yB5uBw1

That was certainly unpleasant.

 

To relax, I made my way to Heritage Hill. Taking down vessels is easy enough, especially in easily blocked-off streets:

https://imgur.com/enWRL6S

Kerion the druid ended up taking out the three mages here with three bursts of summer flame. After I was done with the tower (and also finished The Man who Waits), I finally took on the lighthouse (my last quest inside the city walls). I used a lot of foodbuffs for that one, and only the first battle ended up being somehwat challening, due to the opponents being very spread out. I also decided to finally take out Raedric, which was quite easy at this point, due to me being overleveled:

https://imgur.com/ODmNhMi

My last battle for now was in Stormfall Gorge, on the way to Dyrford Village. There, I had to face my first Adragan with a huge group of beasts and the like. His returning storm ended up being super-annoying (even though I countered with my own). Being level 7 by now, I went through all of my options - devotions for the faithfull, calling the world's maw etc. to give myself some advantage. While one of my rangers got knocked down due to petrification, I did end up winning the battle, mostly thanks to Kerion's rather insane damage as a cat.

https://imgur.com/oDLgIyn

 

My party is completely done in Defiance Bay for now and has reached level 7 (with level 8 for Liresh himself). Liresh picked up Liberating Exhortation, Veteran's Recovery, Reviving Exhortation (super useful because that one works on ranger pets and removes bonded grief) and Deep Faith. Kerion picked up Greater Wildstrike Shock, Selissa went for Painful Interdiction. My rangers gained Stalker's Link, Merciless Companion and Driving Flight, and Andur decided to go for Apprentice Sneak Attack and Recall Agony, Ectopsychic Echo, Secret Horrors, Pain Block and Silent Scream.

 

For difficult battles, I now usually open up on my priest with inspring radiance/interdiction/devotions for the faithful/blessing/dire blessing, while sometimes adding certain prayers and spells such as iconic projection for damage and healing. Kerrion starts with returning storm and nature's mark, often adding various AoE damage spells such as calling the world's maw, dancing bolts, sunbeam, blizzard, burst of summer flame and the like, and if I really need lots of damage, he will transform and go into melee combat (he can also get back his shapeshifting ability thanks to Gyrd Háewanes Sténes if needed). Andur often opens up with a mental binding and likes to add secret horrors or silent scream once he gains more focus, though I still use whisper of treason from time to time. The rangers tend to open with wounding shots and try to stay on target with their animal companions if possible, while Liresh is in charge of keeping himself and the animals alive with LoH and his exhortations. This is all very basic stuff, nothing fancy - most of my combat decisions come down to positioning and targeting, which seems far more important to me.

Edited November 17, 2018 by Enuhal

[Alesia_BH]

 

Are you talking about this one?

 

 

 

Yes! I'm glad it's still active. 

 

(One of us should make a local copy just in case it does disappear some day. I've learned pretty much all of it, by now, but it can be helpful as a refresher following breaks)

 

 

 

I think we could start with this list of status affects and then add options/means to neutralize them (via items/spells).

 

 

I feel like it would be easy to miss something that way. It might be better to work from the categories of options backwards.

 

For example, we could assign one person to items, one person to potions, etc. Each person could organize the entities in question by status effects and then we could build a list, like XYX's BG one.

 

Best,

A.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Alesia_BH

[Alesia_BH]

I sadly can't keep up with all of your posts, Alesia_BH, but I will try to adress the early game tanking weapon question and the taking out spellcasters early thing:

 

Here are some weapons that I think to a decent job for a defensive paladin early on:

a) any kind of enchanted hatchet (the only unique one you can get early is Hearth Harvest from the woodend plains)

b) Measured Restraint, the rapier from the endless path level 2 (easy to get, provides 1 free extra engagement)

c) Oidhreacht/Gaun's Share for the self-heal (endless paths 1/temple of eothas)

c) Shatterstar, sold by Sigrun in Copperlane (same as Measured Restraint, but with a bit more damage)

d) Shame or Glory for the marking buff if you decide to join the Crucible Knights (reward for their second quest)

 

 

Cool. These are the ones that I've considered/fiddled with. I'm glad I haven't been missing anything. Thanks!

 

I've always prefered Shatterstar and Shame or Glory. We're using an upgraded saber now, which is ok, for the time being.

 

Best, 

 

A

[Alesia_BH]

Excellent work, Enuhal! I'm glad you're making progress!

 

Best,

 

A.

 

Btw, why do you prefer arbalests?

Edited November 4, 2018 by Alesia_BH

[semiticgod]

How important do you all think it is to work with per-encounter abilities? While I like having lots of camping supplies and I hesitate to use limited resources like per-rest abilities and expendables, it doesn't actually seem optimal from a no-reload perspective. It only takes a few moments to leave a dungeon and rest at an inn, and traveling long distances doesn't seem to result in fatigue penalties, which means you can get more uses out of per-rest abilities without worrying about having enough camping supplies.

 

Stinginess with resources is the bane of no-reload runs, but I keep finding myself doing it. Doesn't it make more sense to be generous with per-rest abilities in PoE?

 

On an unrelated note, what do you guys think about Dexterity? Having maxed-out Dexterity seems really useful, since having 20% faster action speed ostensibly means 20% more damage output as well as 20% more chances to use special abilities and expendables.

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Dexterity is the most important stat, in my opinion. 

 

Go nuts with your per rest resources. You can literally rest with enemies next room without consequence. 

[Serg BlackStrider]

Stinginess with resources is the bane of no-reload runs, but I keep finding myself doing it. Doesn't it make more sense to be generous with per-rest abilities in PoE?

 

On an unrelated note, what do you guys think about Dexterity? Having maxed-out Dexterity seems really useful, since having 20% faster action speed ostensibly means 20% more damage output as well as 20% more chances to use special abilities and expendables.

 

I do agree, that stinginess with camping supplied is bad, but since I play on PotD and thus only have 2 max of those I often find myself being thrifty. Moreover I don't like leaving dungeons non-cleared to rest in the nearest inn. But that doesn't mean anyone should follow that way.

 

And as I've already mentioned, I consider Dexterity as one of the most valuable stat. I don't like min-max but I'll readily make Might and Constitution average to have at least decent Dexterity. It doesn't seem wise to me to have an outrageous damage potential when you aren't able to apply that damage being constantly interrupted due to low action speed.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Serg BlackStrider

[draego]

I actually dipped into non-D&D territory in my other no-reloads after BG lost some of its magic for me. I did no-reload runs for Morrowind, Oblivion with OOO (including a max difficulty run), Skyrim with SkyRe (including a max difficulty run), and even a low-grinding Dragon Warrior Monsters run. Morrowind was simple to break, while Oblivion required some art, Skyrim required grinding, and DWM involved number crunching and spreadsheets. Fun stuff, but gameplay wasn't as complex as it is with BG and PoE, so that only lasted so long.

 

Some of the Oblivion runs were particularly hilarious. It required some work, but I implemented a trick of my own devising called Fatigue boosting, which involved artificially decreasing my base fatigue so that Fortify Fatigue effects multiplied arrow damage dramatically. My Breton was dealing hundreds of damage per shot with a crummy little shortbow. Imagine a tiny little British girl running around dressed in rags, one-shotting huge enemies with arrows that literally threw the enemies off their feet.

 

The first time i play obivion i enchanted all the pieces of my armor with chameleon , i think that is name, basically making me perma invisible and untargetale and beat the at 1/3 -1/4 of the game including the end boss this way . to tell the truth i was tired of game and just wanted to get through it so this was a relief for me. never played it again

Edited November 4, 2018 by draego

[Jaheiras Witness]

You absolutely should not be stingy with resources or per rest abilities. There are lots of camping supplies so resting is hardly restricted. There is no fatigue either from travel or time, only from scripted encounters. You can literally travel across the map to rest if you like a particular resting bonus.

 

Btw I consider DEX to be the least important stat. The only characters where you want average/decent DEX are casters. I'm perfectly fine with DEX 3 on any tank type. Additional action speed is for maximising DPS. But for no-reload, you should never forget the adage learned from BG runs: defence is a thousand times more important than offence. Besides, in-game DEX is likely to be semi-permanently 4-5 points better than base DEX (equipment/rest/food), so even DEX 3 is really DEX 7-8, and that has only a small speed penalty.

 

I have a personal theory on stats: DEX & PER are purely offensive attributes (more speed and accuracy). CON & RES are purely defensive attributes (more HPs and deflection/concentration). MIG & INT are the two stats that affect both (more damage AND healing from MIG, greater AoE and duration for both offensive and defensive effects from INT).

 

So MIG & INT are the two stats I value the most. The other stats depend on the role of the character. Tanks can dump DEX and therefore have two average and one maxed stat out of CON/PER/RES (CON is the obvious one to max, average PER and RES). Casters want a more balanced distribution and backline characters can get away with below average CON & RES in favour of DEX/PER.

[Jaheiras Witness]

One other thing I wanted to mention for resting. You will notice that a lot of inn resting bonuses last for 2 rests (and later some of the stronghold ones for 3 rests). But if you have an inn resting bonus and then rest again at an inn with a resting bonus, the first bonus is replaced by the new bonus. In other words, inn resting bonuses do not stack.

 

However...inn resting bonuses do stack with camping bonuses (and that is what the "lasts for 2 rests" dynamic is for). So for maximum bonuses, you should alternately rest at an inn and then camping (or rest at an inn, and then immediately go somewhere to camp if you want to have both sets always).

 

Later you can also get boons from the Salty Mast's employees but only for the PC. These only last until your next rest. So perfect order is inn/camp/Salty Mast. It's not very realistic to be traipsing across maps like this but if you are only thinking max power rather than good roleplay, this lets you stack a load of beneficial effects.

[Enuhal]

Adressing why I like arbalests so much: There are a couple of reasons.

a) This isn't a thing anymore, but it used to be the case that reload times from weapons such as guns, crossbows and arbalests wouldn't be affected by heavy armor - this is the reason why I started combining arbalests + plate armor, and even after this was changed I still felt like the combination was quite powerful in the early game.

b) I like to have very slow weapons early on, because there aren't a lot of reliable ways to take out a single spellcaster right away until some better disables are available. The opening burst damage of a bunch of arbalest users is great. Also, you can get through DR (forest lurkers, skeletons and the like).

c) Yes, the arquebus would be an alternative, but I dislke the lower accuracy: PotD adds 15 to all defenses for the enemy (and also increases their accuracy by 15), so losing accuracy is extra painful. Also, I just don't like guns in this game. I think they're fine in deadfire, but in my opinion they don't really fit into PoE1, so I just don't use them.

d) There are a lot of fine arbalests available early on.

e) I think arbalests are simply very cool.

 

I always switch away from arbalests in the midgame (so pretty soon for my current party) - at this point, I will also stop having everyone run around in plate armor - most of my party will wear light armor or robes once once I start to change weapons (I plan to buy Borresaine, get Persistence, Stormcaller and some type of implements from the endless paths - my druid is already using the soulbound scepter for the ability to regain shapeshifting powers).

Edited November 4, 2018 by Enuhal

[Serg BlackStrider]

There is no fatigue either from travel or time, only from scripted encounters. You can literally travel across the map to rest if you like a particular resting bonus.

 

 

Seems, that's the latest patches' behavior I'm not familiar with. Not sure I'm happy with the change, looks less realistic IMO. Now, Athletic is only worthy for the Second Wind heal amount and some scripted iterations.

 

As for stats distribution - I tend not to develop my party characters as 'pure' tanks, casters or ranged. There is no-zero probability that you could end up in the situation with your 'tank' being on the back line and squishy casters or rangers up front. That's one of the reasons I build my characters not as 'optimal' but as more 'all-around viable'.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Serg BlackStrider

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Scrolls are the great equilizer. Use your scrolls. 

 

 

[Alesia_BH]

Yes, it is cheesy as heck.

 

 

 

I'm glad we're on the same page. I was trying to be all diplomatic, because I'm new here -and I really, really, really appreciate your commentary- but what I was really thinking was:

 

https://imgur.com/pn8mu9k

 

,

 

A.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Alesia_BH

[Alesia_BH]

The more I think about your approach, Enuhal, the more I like it. Opening volley to eliminate casters, two tanks, four ranged fighters at a safe distance: It makes sense. 

 

I suspect that I've gravitated toward my every-bum in the scrum, heals all-around style because I have very little experience with party based strategic positioning. Most of my BG runs were solos, and when I did party, I used heavily buffed arcane crews in dense teleport fields. I have virtually no experience managing positioning with a team. Acquiring that skill should be my next developmental step as a PoE player. 

 

I look forward to Liresh's next post!

 

Best,

 

A.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Alesia_BH

[Alesia_BH]

@Hulk'O'Saurus. Very impressive, once again!

 

Your tactics were great, but the biggest eye opener for, personally, was that you fed your character from the inventory screen. I had no idea you could do that. What a time saver! That's awesome.

 

Cheers,

 

A.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Alesia_BH

[Jaheiras Witness]

Haha, yeah, when I first realised you could consume from that screen rather than put it in your quickslots, that really was a gamechanger for me as well. Stuff like that should be better documented, such as a tooltip / loading screen / in game wiki.

[Jaheiras Witness]

It's actually great to be able to discuss the game and strategy properly with people, since these forums have been dead for ages (or everyone is onto PoE2).

 

And with all this talk I am going to have to get back into the action. It's probably 6 months+ since I last played so going to have to do a run just to refamiliarise myself and then try something with extreme challenge. Will probably do another run with solo chanter on Hard first off; last time I completed it I skipped White March as I was already max level and just wanted to succeed, this time I will try to do those as well. I will also voluntarily skip the deadfire items as they are just overpowered relative to the rest of the gear and the belt in particular is so addictive considering you can buy it in Act 1 and unlock all its powers by the time you get to Defiance Bay.

 

Once I've done this run I will either try it again on PotD or do one of the other classes I really want to succeed with (a long list but headed by Fighter or Barbarian with a 2 handed sword build).

[Alesia_BH]

You're joining us, Jaheiras Witness? That's wonderful news! I'm very excited to see a run from you!

 

Cheers,

 

A.