"Must" Cipher spells for a ranged or support/mid-line multi-class?

[Lampros]

 

What makes Barbarian/Cipher so good?

 

And doesn't Ranger bring a lot more than mere Accuracy? What about Tranquilizing Shot - or the DPS and effects increase from Driving Flight?

 

 

 

 

I am looking at it from the standpoint of a pure spellcaster cipher. Ranger and Rogue cipher are mixxed/martial builds because those abilities mainly buff "weapon" damage and not spell damage and efficiency, monk/cipher, berserker/cipher and pure cipher on the other hand can be more pure spellcaster nukers when you build them right. monk gives fire 20% lash on spells and increased speed, berserker extra pen and speed through frenzy as well as the best late game buffs in blood thirst allowing you to ignore recovery on the next spell or attack after a kill->works great with aoe spells. 

 

I try to take out weapon attacking out of the cipher at late levels and use weapon abilities likie Thunderous report etc to generate focus and become pure caster once combat starts. a priests salvation of time on you make acsendant state last a long time. so that's the difference basically as I think ciphers deal most damage when they can cast spells non-stop like wizards, and monk or barbarian multi gives the best buffs for the aoe spells. 

 

 

Got it! I hadn't even considered the Cipher as a nuke caster - just as a CC caster!

[1TTFFSSE]

for a cc cipher beguiler is probably better. just again raise perception as high as possible so your will spells crit and you get focus refunded to cast more spells and (auto) attack less. 

[Lampros]

for a cc cipher beguiler is probably better. just again raise perception as high as possible so your will spells crit and you get focus refunded to cast more spells and (auto) attack less. 

 

Spells generate focus? LOL, I didn't even know that - I thought only auto-attacks did, ROFL

[Prince of Lies]

for a cc cipher beguiler is probably better. just again raise perception as high as possible so your will spells crit and you get focus refunded to cast more spells and (auto) attack less. 

 

Both are probably very similar in terms of how good they are at CC.

 

Ascended gives +3 PL which is +15% Duration. So not only do you have unlimited casts for at least 15s, but you need to cast less often. 

 

Beguiler focus regen per deception spell hit is +6 at level 1, +7 at level 3, +8 at level 5, +9 at level 7, +10 at level 9, +11 at level 11, +12 at level 13, +13 at level 16, +14 at level 19. (+6 at level 1, +7 at level 4, +8 at level 7, +9 at level 10, +10 at level 13, +11 at level 16, +12 at level 19 for multiclass).

 

In my testing it doesn't seem to matter whether the target is flanked or has an affliction for the regen on spell hit (contrary to the in-game description), but does bring the normal weapon attack focus generation back to 50% as opposed tot he beguilers usual of 25% when auto-attacking. 

 

The thing that any other cipher has over Ascendant is that they can cast spells immediately after getting enough focus to do so. With Ascendant, if you aren't using optimal focus gaining methods, you have downtime before you start casting. 

[Prince of Lies]

 

for a cc cipher beguiler is probably better. just again raise perception as high as possible so your will spells crit and you get focus refunded to cast more spells and (auto) attack less. 

 

Spells generate focus? LOL, I didn't even know that - I thought only auto-attacks did, ROFL

 

 

Yeah, but only on Beguiler. It's one of their big benefits. 

[Archaven]

Yeah, Thunderous Report does friendly damage. But you generally only need/can fire it once per encounter.

 

Survivsl Tools.. hm.. for example... monk can activate Blade Turning when under strrong melee attack. Cipher can quickly Paralyze with Mental Binding. Secret Horrors takes the edge of many enemies.

 

And yeah, Ascendant is pretty much best. Cases can be for Soulblade for melee or Beguiler solely for CC.

I'm wondering if there's a stealth nerf in getting ascended. It seems really hard to get asceny now? Or must get 200 focus to be ascended?

[Flucas]

 

What makes Barbarian/Cipher so good?

 

And doesn't Ranger bring a lot more than mere Accuracy? What about Tranquilizing Shot - or the DPS and effects increase from Driving Flight?

 

 

 

 

I am looking at it from the standpoint of a pure spellcaster cipher. Ranger and Rogue cipher are mixxed/martial builds because those abilities mainly buff "weapon" damage and not spell damage and efficiency, monk/cipher, berserker/cipher and pure cipher on the other hand can be more pure spellcaster nukers when you build them right. monk gives fire 20% lash on spells and increased speed, berserker extra pen and speed through frenzy as well as the best late game buffs in blood thirst allowing you to ignore recovery on the next spell or attack after a kill->works great with aoe spells. 

 

I try to take out weapon attacking out of the cipher at late levels and use weapon abilities likie Thunderous report etc to generate focus and become pure caster once combat starts. a priests salvation of time on you make acsendant state last a long time. so that's the difference basically as I think ciphers deal most damage when they can cast spells non-stop like wizards, and monk or barbarian multi gives the best buffs for the aoe spells. 

 

 

Also; cipher's mindblades synergizes perfectly with blood frenzy and Brute Force. Combined with investments in casting/recov speed your Witch is a machine gun during Ascended.

[Verde]

To echo what other posters have said, you should really include *some* mind control spells in your repertoire, as they a key strength of Ciphers.

[Lampros]

To echo what other posters have said, you should really include *some* mind control spells in your repertoire, as they a key strength of Ciphers.

 

Well, I may change my mind, but I don't want the AI having my buffs like it always did in PoE 1 when they reverted back to being bad. But I may get a single target ones first to experiment.

[Verde]

 

To echo what other posters have said, you should really include *some* mind control spells in your repertoire, as they a key strength of Ciphers.

Well, I may change my mind, but I don't want the AI having my buffs like it always did in PoE 1 when they reverted back to being bad. But I may get a single target ones first to experiment.

I dont think I've ever run into this in PoE2 and the durations are sufficient.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Verde

[Lampros]

 

 

To echo what other posters have said, you should really include *some* mind control spells in your repertoire, as they a key strength of Ciphers.

Well, I may change my mind, but I don't want the AI having my buffs like it always did in PoE 1 when they reverted back to being bad. But I may get a single target ones first to experiment.

I dont think I've ever run into this in PoE2 and the durations are sufficient.

 

 

Ok, I am going to try; and I will cast Disintegrate on you if you are wrong!

[Elric Galad]

When speaking about Barbarian + Caster Multi, Lion Sprint should be remembered.
Positionning buff + small buff to Dex (minor but even more attack speed won't hurt) + instant 15 Acc (for next spell) is a relevant feat for both damages and CC.

It is not as good as Fighter's Barrages, but it adds up.

 

I think Barbarian is probably the best martial suclass for DPS casters, unless going DoT which is Helwalker/X realm.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Elric Galad

[Lampros]

When speaking about Barbarian + Caster Multi, Lion Sprint should be remembered.

Positionning buff + small buff to Dex (minor but even more attack speed won't hurt) + instant 15 Acc (for next spell) is a relevant feat for both damages and CC.

It is not as good as Fighter's Barrages, but it adds up.

 

I think Barbarian is probably the best martial suclass for DPS casters, unless going DoT which is Helwalker/X realm.

 

This is a bit ironic, given the widespread image of the Barbarian class as a quintessential melee in most RPGs!

[Elric Galad]

 

When speaking about Barbarian + Caster Multi, Lion Sprint should be remembered.

Positionning buff + small buff to Dex (minor but even more attack speed won't hurt) + instant 15 Acc (for next spell) is a relevant feat for both damages and CC.

It is not as good as Fighter's Barrages, but it adds up.

 

I think Barbarian is probably the best martial suclass for DPS casters, unless going DoT which is Helwalker/X realm.

 

This is a bit ironic, given the widespread image of the Barbarian class as a quintessential melee in most RPGs!

 

 

It is still about killing stuff.

 

Multi Barbarian are simply open-minded about how to kill them.

[Prince of Lies]

I'm wondering if there's a stealth nerf in getting ascended. It seems really hard to get asceny now? Or must get 200 focus to be ascended?

 

To hit ascended, you have to hit max focus (which depends on level).

 

There wasn't a nerf to Ascendant, but there was a nerf to dual wielding damage. So if you were dual wielding before, you'll notice that your now dealing less damage and thus generating less focus. 

[Elric Galad]

 

The thing that any other cipher has over Ascendant is that they can cast spells immediately after getting enough focus to do so. With Ascendant, if you aren't using optimal focus gaining methods, you have downtime before you start casting. 

 

 

Well, Ascendant only gets -1PL below other Ciphers.

They also get more starting focus and more focus gain.

 

So if you're cating when not yet ascended you're basically trading a bit of power for a substancial increased amount of focus.

I think Ascendant would even be balanced if they hadn't access to Ascendant state.

 

IMHO people are too obsessed about Ascension and miss the versatility of this subclass.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Elric Galad

[Prince of Lies]

 

 

The thing that any other cipher has over Ascendant is that they can cast spells immediately after getting enough focus to do so. With Ascendant, if you aren't using optimal focus gaining methods, you have downtime before you start casting. 

 

 

Well, Ascendant only gets -1PL below other Ciphers.

They also get more starting focus and more focus gain.

 

So if you're cating when not yet ascended you're basically trading a bit of power for a substancial increased amount of focus.

I think Ascendant would even be balanced if they hadn't access to Ascendant state.

 

IMHO people are too obsessed about Ascension and miss the versatility of this subclass.

 

 

Oh I wholeheartedly agree. There are some substantial benefits to Ascend for casting multiple high-level spells, though.

 

The point I was trying to make is it's not as simple as X Cipher Subclass is better than Y Cipher Subclass. 

[Verde]

 

 

 

To echo what other posters have said, you should really include *some* mind control spells in your repertoire, as they a key strength of Ciphers.

Well, I may change my mind, but I don't want the AI having my buffs like it always did in PoE 1 when they reverted back to being bad. But I may get a single target ones first to experiment.

I dont think I've ever run into this in PoE2 and the durations are sufficient.

Ok, I am going to try; and I will cast Disintegrate on you if you are wrong!

If you don't kill your foes while they are Dominated, I'm reflecting that Disengration back at you.

[Lampros]

 

 

 

 

To echo what other posters have said, you should really include *some* mind control spells in your repertoire, as they a key strength of Ciphers.

Well, I may change my mind, but I don't want the AI having my buffs like it always did in PoE 1 when they reverted back to being bad. But I may get a single target ones first to experiment.

I dont think I've ever run into this in PoE2 and the durations are sufficient.

Ok, I am going to try; and I will cast Disintegrate on you if you are wrong!

If you don't kill your foes while they are Dominated, I'm reflecting that Disengration back at you.

 

 

Wait, you can kill Dominated/Charmed foes? WTF? I don't remember it working that way in PoE 1...

[Prince of Lies]

Wait, you can kill Dominated/Charmed foes? WTF? I don't remember it working that way in PoE 1...

Yeah, you could do it in POE1 as well. You just have to manually do so by clicking the manual attack button (little sword), then click on the non-hostile target.

 

IIRC, If you have your AI set to auto attack, you will automatically attack it anyway. 

Edited October 17, 2018 by Prince of Lies

[Lampros]

 

Wait, you can kill Dominated/Charmed foes? WTF? I don't remember it working that way in PoE 1...

Yeah, you could do it in POE1 as well. You just have to manually do so by clicking the manual attack button (little sword), then click on the non-hostile target.

 

IIRC, If you have your AI set to auto attack, you will automatically attack it anyway. 

 

 

I see. And yes, I set them to auto-attack except for my support guy. And once you attack them, do they attack you back or take it until the Charmed/Dominated duration runs off?

[Verde]

They will become hostile again, but...hey you just gotta try it alright ? You're making it seem much worse than it is. Heck Ringleader is one of the most OP spells in the game...prob should be lvl 8 or 9.

[Prince of Lies]

Yeah, attacking a Charmed/Dominated target breaks Charm/Dominate. I think originally in POE1 it didn't, but was wayyyy to powerful.

 

It's still good. Just make sure you have good aim with any fireballs you plan on hurling in their general proximity. 

[Lampros]

Yeah, attacking a Charmed/Dominated target breaks Charm/Dominate. I think originally in POE1 it didn't, but was wayyyy to powerful.

 

It's still good. Just make sure you have good aim with any fireballs you plan on hurling in their general proximity. 

 

It's fairer that way.

 

Well, I am still a bit on the fence with the utility of the Charm and Dominate spells for the Cipher. Will a Cipher who won't run them be a drag and not a good character? Can't I just sit back and pew-pew with an arquebus and hurl debuff and nuke spells?

[Prince of Lies]

 

Yeah, attacking a Charmed/Dominated target breaks Charm/Dominate. I think originally in POE1 it didn't, but was wayyyy to powerful.

 

It's still good. Just make sure you have good aim with any fireballs you plan on hurling in their general proximity. 

 

It's fairer that way.

 

Well, I am still a bit on the fence with the utility of the Charm and Dominate spells for the Cipher. Will a Cipher who won't run them be a drag and not a good character? Can't I just sit back and pew-pew with an arquebus and hurl debuff and nuke spells?

 

 

Oh, heck yeah.

 

Verde and I are just saying that Charm/Dominate are great CC spells.

 

Not only are they "hard" CC, but Charmed/Dominated enemies attack other enemies as well, boosting party-wide DPS, and can take some heat off of your own characters.