Please convince me not to reroll my Seer!

[Auspex Hexprone]

I thought I had my character pretty well planned out: an Ascendant/Ghost Heart Seer. But I hadn't really taken a hard look at the Ranger class skills before starting, and now that I have -- too late, fifteen hours in at level 5 -- I'm pretty much convinced that Cipher/Ranger really just means "gimped Cipher".

 

Other than the passive that increases accuracy on distant targets, I really see very little in the Ranger abilities that makes me better as a ranged attacker or faster at building up Focus. Even the level 7 abilities I'll eventually access are all centered on the "empower" button, which I don't think much of anyway.

 

I'm fond of my ghost lion, but he's not that amazing -- not compared to giving up the top two ability tiers of my primary class.

 

What, if anything, am I missing? I'm playing PotD, so even though I'm still close to the beginning, getting back to where I am won't be all that quick, and I'm not eager to restart if I don't have to.

 

Help me to love my Seer again -- or to face the bitter truth that he's got to be scrapped.

 

 

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

You can always respec your character at any merchant to try out different setups. 

 

You gain quite a bit from being a Ranger, actually. For one you can buff your own animal with various Cypher gizmos and you gain accuracy from your Ranger side to better use debuffs. You can spam Marked Prey around, build focus fast, then debuff and spam damaging abilities with more accuracy then vanilla Cypher. Possibly even getting focus back on crits. If you use someone with clubs, your Borrowed Instincts will never miss, provided your target is marked, you have that Cypher passive(+10 Accuracy vs Will) and your animal friend is attacking them as well. 

 

Your pet can tank quite a bit later on with a few buffs, btw. Check them out. 

[Clerith]

I saw a video of a Seer soloing the spider megaboss, I think? It can certainly do something.

[Boeroer]

Summon lion behind enemy, cast Ectopsychic Echo on him. Evade-roll behind more enemies. Nice!

 

Driving Flight should help you to build lots of focus. Use with dual hand mortars or Watershaper's Focus.

[Flucas]

weaponslot1: The Red Hand. Build up the damage buff.

Weaponslot2: Scordeo's trophy + Thundercrack pistol.

 

[Tadas]

I think seer is hands down best boss killer in the game. You have really high accuracy compared to everyone else +10 from hunters mark, +5 passive from distance, +10 from same target as animal companion, +10 when boss is bloodied. You can consistently land recall agony which is +30% damage from everyone. You get +20 from borrowed instinct. As ghost heart your companion is amazing at tanking early on - completely expendable hp bag. Early on spamming mind blades is great and ectopsychic echo just melts every enemy in the way. In toughest fights seer shines most brightly.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Tadas

[Verde]

I think seer is hands down best boss killer in the game. You have really high accuracy compared to everyone else +10 from hunters mark, +5 passive from distance, +10 from same target as animal companion, +10 when boss is bloodied. You can consistently land recall agony which is +30% damage from everyone. You get +20 from borrowed instinct. As ghost heart your companion is amazing at tanking early on - completely expendable hp bag. Early on spamming mind blades is great and ectopsychic echo just melts every enemy in the way. In toughest fights seer shines most brightly.

What does a Seer do that a Mindstalker can't?

[Tadas]

Have 35 extra accuracy. 

[Verde]

Have 35 extra accuracy.

Which equates to what? I don't see any Ranger abilities that can match the damage of Toxic Strike and Devastating Blow. There's nothing a Ranger/Seer can do that a Rogue/Mindstalker can't do better.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Verde

[Auspex Hexprone]

Have 35 extra accuracy. 

 

Yeah, this is pretty persuasive. On PotD I'd rather have consistent damage and reliable CC than a high-damage spell that could whiff at a crucial moment.

[Prince of Lies]

 

Have 35 extra accuracy.

Which equates to what? I don't see any Ranger abilities that can match the damage of Toxic Strike and Devastating Blow. There's nothing a Ranger/Seer can do that a Rogue/Mindstalker can't do better.

 

 

Higher miss-to-graze, graze-to-hit, hit-to-crit rates. 

 

Edit: Ninja'd

Edited October 10, 2018 by Prince of Lies

[Tadas]

Landing your cipher spells more reliably. Look - in fights where you can consistently hit targets - mindstalker will win, in fights with high deflection - seer will. Don't agonize about it - if you are not enjoying it - reroll. Try out multiple builds. Mindstalker is great.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Tadas

[Verde]

 

 

Have 35 extra accuracy.

Which equates to what? I don't see any Ranger abilities that can match the damage of Toxic Strike and Devastating Blow. There's nothing a Ranger/Seer can do that a Rogue/Mindstalker can't do better.

Higher miss-to-graze, graze-to-hit, hit-to-crit rates.

 

Edit: Ninja'd

All of that can be easily increased with Cipher skills and equipment. Edited October 10, 2018 by Verde

[Prince of Lies]

Yes, but when used in conjunction with ranger abilities (Mark is an attack, so buffs stack with it) you have a higher net accuracy. Equipment/Pets/Resting Bonuses simply adds on to that. 

 

Not saying Rogue/Cipher isn't viable, in fact they are very comparable (with one exception*).

 

In general, Rogue = More Damage, Less Accuracy and Ranger = Less Damage, More Accuracy.  

 

_{*Blunderbuss (Powder Burns) + Streetfighter has fantastic focus generation + AOE damage- probably one of the best builds in the game. Side note to the side note: also not sure if Soul Annihilation still works with Powder Burns or not.} 

[Boeroer]

Soul Annihilation only works with melee weapons.

 

How can people question the value of higher ACC against bosses?

[Prince of Lies]

Soul Annihilation only works with melee weapons.

 

Ach, that was a derpy moment 

 

 

How can people question the value of higher ACC against bosses?

 

 

Non POTD players? To be honest, if you don't play POTD you probably wouldn't notice much of a difference so long as you have half-decent perception and gear. 

[Haplok]

Not saying Rogue/Cipher isn't viable, in fact they are very comparable (with one exception*).

 

In general, Rogue = More Damage, Less Accuracy and Ranger = Less Damage, More Accuracy.  

 

_{*Blunderbuss (Powder Burns) + Streetfighter has fantastic focus generation + AOE damage- probably one of the best builds in the game. Side note to the side note: also not sure if Soul Annihilation still works with Powder Burns or not.} 

 

Blunderbuss Streetfighter / Ascendant is pretty awesome speed and damage output wise... but has even lower Accuracy. Not the best combo to reliably land CC IMO.

 

Then the Helwalker Transcendant, the force multiplier, completes the Triumvirate: Average Accuracy, Average physical damage but More damage for Cipher spells and much longer effect durations (including Ascension, as well as stuff like Mental Binding, Stunning Surge).

 

But Seer is certainly very viable IMO. Everyone can prefer a different one of those 3 Ascendant multiclasses (or even go for yet another combo).

Edited October 11, 2018 by Haplok

[Boeroer]

If they would chance Driving Flight so that it worked with all kind of projectiles/jumps like Mind Blades and missiles and also changed the Animal Companion so that it would generate Focus for you Ranger would be everybody's darling.

[Ophiuchus]

Seer's been my main since beta and I've finished PotD /w upscaling on it several times, and with different variations (Ascendant/Ghost Heart being my favorite). It has a rocky start compared to other multiclasses since your ability points are spread pretty thin but it really starts to shine at levels 10 and 13. Marksman + Marked for The Hunt + Borrowed Instinct + The Empty Soul + Marksman's Ring + the BoW helm that adds +10 to affliction accuracy makes you a CC and Charm machine (also works well with Beguiler Seer). Toss in Secret Horrors and Mind Plague to lower Will and Fortitude for additional CC and Disintegrate. Tranquilizer Shot combined with Driving Flight and dual blunderbusses or a bounce weapon gives you some nice utility to add to your array of debilitating effects. You'll be fine.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Ophiuchus

[Verde]

 

Soul Annihilation only works with melee weapons.

Ach, that was a derpy moment

 

How can people question the value of higher ACC against bosses?

 

Non POTD players? To be honest, if you don't play POTD you probably wouldn't notice much of a difference so long as you have half-decent perception and gear.

Ha! Guilty as charged. Guess I don't know all the nuances of PotD.

 

But accuracy really worth all that boredom and mediocrity? Boerer I know you're an advocate of the Ranger, trying your darndest to make the underdog work - but it's just so boring

[Haplok]

Well, in this case I wouldn't say its a case of "underdog" or "mediocrity". Just a different emphasis.

 

A Mindstalker Ascendant kinda feels redundant in the damage department. The Rogue part may make hims Ascend really fast but then what? His damage spells will often feel underpowered compared to what he could do using weapons. And that rogue side doesn't really support his spellcasting (except Streetfighter Recovery reduction, but then you're also debuffing your Accuracy).

 

Meanwhile a Seer's Accuracy will greatly help both classes. The Animal Companion will be his trusty offtank support, as well as useful anchor for Ectopsychic Echo (awesome power!). And he can even Pain Block it, to make it quite durable.

 

Also Transcendant will support both sides, but again, that's just emphasis on different aspects.

[Ophiuchus]

I don't find Seer boring or mediocre at all. I play it like a tactician: sit back and tear down enemy defenses so my troops can do what they need to do.