Bad ending questions (spoilers)

[kmbogd]

I've seen that it is possible to make Eothas not only destroy the Wheel but also Eora itself. However this raises some questions. Do all gods possess the ability to destroy Eora?  If all can do it then why doesn't Rymrgand already destroy everything?

 

Another option is that not all gods are capable of performing this feat. But then why is Eothas such an uber-god? From the lore we know for sure that initially only Woedica was more powerful than the other gods, but this has changed since she was overthrown. Also from some other pieces of lore we know that Berath and Rymrgand are some of the more ancient deity figures. Does this mean that they are somehow more powerful and potentially in the same league with Eothas? By this logic this would also make Rymrgand capable of destroying Eora whenever he wishes to. On the other hand, if Eothas is the only one capable of this feat, why and since when has he become this uber-god? 

 

The only speculation that I can come with and that would explain it somehow is the following. Probably all gods have the power to destroy Eora but only if they have a physical manifestation in the Here. Out of the 11 gods, 10 of them would not resort to this utter destruction simply because they value at least their own existence or it's against their philosophy. Rymrgand though, could have done it since this is his philosophy. Probably the other gods made a coalition and stopped him by destroying his physical manifestation from the Here. So maybe his is the second of the 3 skeletons that is missing from Ukaizo (the other being of Abydon). After the death of Abydon's manifestation from the Here, the other Gods reached a consensus and decided to voluntarily give up their physical manifestation in the Here so that  they can no longer be able to perform feats of massive destruction on Eora.

 

Did anyone figured this stuff out (at least partially)?

Edited October 2, 2018 by kmbogd

[Taevyr]

In said ending, when you ask Eothas to destroy Eora you basically break his positive outlook on kith with that demand, which then somehow infects the adra pillars when he destroys the wheel;It's a bit of an asspull, but it's not due to Eothas being more powerful than the other gods, or any god being capable of the feat

[kmbogd]

Thanks Taevyr for your input. I'm not saying that you are not right but unfortunately I fail to understand the sense of it. To be frank, the way you put it does not change the doubts I had but just rephrases the questions. So if your point were to be true, why is Eothas' outlook so impactful on the world of Eora? Can other gods infect it in the same way? In this case, given the nihilistic attitude of Rymgand, why doesn't he have the same effect on Eora already?

[Tick]

Thanks Taevyr for your input. I'm not saying that you are not right but unfortunately I fail to understand the sense of it. To be frank, the way you put it does not change the doubts I had but just rephrases the questions. So if your point were to be true, why is Eothas' outlook so impactful on the world of Eora? Can other gods infect it in the same way? In this case, given the nihilistic attitude of Rymgand, why doesn't he have the same effect on Eora already?

I assume it's because Rymrgand isn't the one in the statue breaking the wheel directly?

 

I haven't read that ending or what happens exactly, so I'm guesstimating.

[DozingDragon]

Rymrgand is not the god of immaentizing the eschaton, but the god of entropy. Rymrgand seems to be pleased that Eothas may have accelerated the schedule for the end of the world, but he seems to have been just fine waiting for the white void to devour all life in Eora.

 

As you noted, the gods all lack physical bodies. Without bodies, the gods seem to be masses of concentrated essence that are fed by the wheel, and as such, they do not have the ability to directly interfere with the world on the same scale as Eothas.

 

With regard to Eothas shattering the adra with his doubt, adra was shown to be susceptible to corruption in Poko Kohara, and in the same instance, that same adra was able to be shattered by the Watcher by manipulating soul essence. So it’s not a stretch that Eothas would be able to pull something off like that on a larger scale.

[uuuhhii]

gods have their own business and do things on their own pace

rymrgand was in no hurry to turn every soul to shards

rymrgand said in a meeting that if eothas wish to accelerate the end

he does not object

[Zaris]

That’s just one retarded plothole on top of gigantic pile of retarded plotholes that is Deadfire’s story. Basically Obsidian should take FromSoftware approach of telling a story by not telling a story („don’t think too much about this; just go out and kill some beasts. It’s for your own good”) if they’re going to maintain this level. But then again their gameplay is not so good either, as seen by another mountain nearby: this one made out of bugs and crashes.

The most retarded thing is Eothas’ immense power, capable of withstanding assault from both Magran and Ondra at once. What gives? Sure, he absorbed our soul and the souls of hundred others but all gods could do it. If Maros Nua was such a poweful tool why didn’t Woedica possess it instead of relying on Thaos? Or after we broke her plan and killed Thaos? She certainly was more poweful than Eothas after his death at Bridge Ablaze and clearly lacks any moral safeguards to stop her from such a thing. Not to mention that all gods should want to have a similair statues, just in case they need a physical body. You know, instead of using a fu***ng farmer.

The most funny thing is that they could explain it but just couldn’t be asked; maybe Rymrgrand and Skaen gave Eothas their power, because they want to use him for their goals? Skaen could actually make at least one real clever plot because for now he’s basically a creepy asslicker od Woedica and not a brilliant god of deception. Not to mention that a true god of deception wouldn’t want to be known for a god of deception since that kinda ruins all his schemes.

[house2fly]

The problem with the way people consume fiction these days is they're too obsessed with plot holes. A plot hole is when two things in the same plot can't possibly have happened, not when you don't know why X didn't happen. The text answers some of these questions already (Berath talks about gods incarnating and the problems it causes in the opening moments of the game) and the rest, well, if the text not answering questions was actually a problem for you you wouldn't have namedropped FromSoft.

[Zaris]

Looks like somebody watches Patrick Williams on YT and arees without thinking, mr house2fly (Mrs? Miss? Sorry if I assumed wrongly) But both him and you are wrong. When a creator is too lazy to come up with coherent plot then it’s his fault, not the audience for observing it. True, Berath gives a half-hearted excuse about incarnating but obviously this excuse doesn’t stop Eothas who’s the weakest of them all and yet manages to deafeat all. Not too mention that by the end of game all gods are desperate enough to try anything, no batter the bull***t reasoning that Obsidian gave Berath at the beginning.

Another aspect is that a truly awesome story makes you forget about plotholes, even if they’re present. So if people complain about them, it’s because creators failed to convince audience to suspend their disbelief. But of course it’s best when they actually do their job properly and avoid making mistakes for us to ignore/point out.

[Walter.Richards]

The problem with the way people consume fiction these days is they're too obsessed with plot holes. A plot hole is when two things in the same plot can't possibly have happened, not when you don't know why X didn't happen. 

Agreed

 

If unanswered questions = plot holes ... just about every story ever has plot holes.

Just look at all the unanswered questions in fairy tales.

 

3 Little pigs:

How did the animals learn to talk?

How did the pigs learn to build?

What is the lung capacity of a wolf, capable of even blowing down a house made of straw?

Why didn't the wolf ambush the pigs outside their homes?

 

LOL

 

Heck ... Life is one big batch of unanswered questions.

And trying to find the answers is what keeps people moving.

[Zaris]

Well, that’s up to you of course, since everybody is entitled to their own view. But since we’ve already gone offtop let met go a little more and say that it amazes me to what lenghts people will go to excuse the faults in something they like. Are you also pretending not to see game-breaking bugs in Deadfire just to spare the poor devs the effort to fix them? Excuse me for going too far with that parrallel but isn’t this blind defending of obvious flaws the reason we have so much sh*t in our media, be it books, games or movies? Because fans will defend and buy everything, no matter how bad? I prefer to love things for their true lack of flaws and not blind myself and convince to love a faulty thing. The second is the very definition of being a fanboy/girl. But suit yourself.

 

 

And yeah, life is a bunch of unanwered questions. But we actually look for answers and not pretend there is no questions to be asked in the first place. If you don’t see the problem in something you’ll never fix it.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Zaris

[house2fly]

Another aspect is that a truly awesome story makes you forget about plotholes, even if they’re present. So if people complain about them, it’s because creators failed to convince audience to suspend their disbelief. But of course it’s best when they actually do their job properly and avoid making mistakes for us to ignore/point out.

yeah this is fair. Nier Automata is a good recent example of something where the plot really isn't 100% coherent but you don't know this because you are swept along for the ride. I think a good story can withstand having plot holes in, but then I also enjoy settings with holes that can be picked up and filled in. Half the fun of Bloodborne, for example, was theorising about what the hell was actually going on.

 

Regarding the question of why the other gods haven't already done this, the obvious answer that occurs to me would be "why would they?" Let's say after you defeated Thaos, Woedica possessed the adra statue. What does she do then? How does having this body benefit her? Remember, Eothas possessed the statue specifically because he needed an extremely strong physical body to withstand the storms of Ondra's Mortar and smash the Wheel. None of the other gods want to break the Wheel, in fact it's unthinkable to them the same way Sauron in The Lord Of The Rings couldn't imagine that someone who possessed the One Ring might want to destroy it. Does Woedica just march around the countryside in her new adra body harvesting people? What if the gods figure out a way to stop her before she's at full power? Could she even possess the statue in the first place? She has a lot less power than the other gods, maybe a certain amount is needed. Maybe she didn't even know it was possible to possess the statue, maybe Eothas himself was just guessing that it could be done. Did they even know the statue was there? They're not omniscient. Maybe Eothas waited 20 years to possess the statue because he was floating around formlessly trying to figure out what to do.

 

As for Rymrgand, well, destroying the Wheel is unthinkable. It's not until he finds out Eothas is going to do it that he has the idea of using that event to end the world.

[kmbogd]

The big question was not with respect to destroying the wheel (which all endings get) but to the specific capability of Eothas to destroy the whole Eora in the bad ending. This brings the further question of whether the other gods have this power as well and if not why? If the other gods also have this power then the justification for Rymrgand not using it but taking his time is a bit to say the least. I really hope it's more than that and I proposed a possible explanation. I was just wondering if there are other suppositions (or facts) on this matter.

Edited October 4, 2018 by kmbogd

[house2fly]

I can't think of any reason Eothas will be the only one with that power. Rymrgand has spent thousands of years being worshipped and using mortals for his own ends. He doesn't suggest destroying the world until the era of his being worshipped is clearly coming to an end, so it seems reasonable to conclude that while he probably really does crave oblivion, he craved being worshipped and Powerful even more