Master Thread of Keyword Inconsistencies

[AndreaColombo]

I figured we'd gather all missing/inconsistent keywords here as a collective effort, that we may then present them in the bug subforum for the devs' consideration.

 

 

Chanter

Thrice Was She Wronged: missing the Electricity keyword

Her Revenge Swept Across: missing the Electricity keyword

Seven Nights She Waited: missing the Frost keyword

...And Evil Turned Away: missing the Fire keyword

Her Tears Fell Like Rain: missing the Frost keyword

 

 

Cipher

Antipathetic Field: missing the Acid keyword

Soul Ignition: missing the Fire keyword

 

 

Priest

Iconic Projection: missing the Frost keyword

 

 

Wizard

Minoletta's Minor Missiles: missing the Acid keyword

Kalakoth's Sunless Grasp: missing the Frost keyword

Concelhaut's Corrosive Siphon: missing the Acid keyword

Concelhaut's Draining Touch: missing the Decay keyword

Death Ring: missing the Decay keyword

Kalakoth's Freezing Rake: missing the Frost keyword

Minoletta's Missile Salvo: missing the Acid keyword

 

 

Have I missed any?

[Boeroer]

Are you sure that Soul Ignition missed the fire keyword? Because it works with the Ring of Focused Flames.

 

What about Dragon Thrashed?

Edited September 29, 2018 by Boeroer

[Metaturtle]

I believe for a lot of the listed abilities its more for clarification since many of the abilities don't explicitly state other keywords that would be relevant on their descriptions, but they definitely do benefit from those keywords' bonuses.  For example, chanter's "Her Revenge Swept Across The Land" only has "Offensive Invocation" as a keyword, but Heart of the Storm and Deltro's Cage's +2 electricity PL can be observed affecting it.  If it didn't before, it certainly is now the last time I tested it although I can't say that's the case for all the other abilities.

Edited September 29, 2018 by Metaturtle

[uuuhhii]

maybe soul tornado need frost keyword?

[Boeroer]

What's Soul Tornado?

 

Edit: ah, I got it: Spirit Tornado.

Yes, that one as well. I mean it does freeze dmg exclusively - nobody knows why, but it does.

Edited September 29, 2018 by Boeroer

[AndreaColombo]

Indeed, my list is based on keywords that appear in the ability's description. I'm happy to remove those you say are actually keyworded (though I'll mention in the bug thread that their keyword isn't showing up in their description.)

[jww]

It's possible that some equipment abilities check damage type in addition to the keyword. So the keyword may still be missing but certain things still trigger because the damage type matches.

 

If that's the case, the keyword should still be added, to be certain that everything affects it that should affect it and not just some things.

Edited September 29, 2018 by jww

[Nights86]

I would disagree about having the frost keyword on iconic projection, and acid on the minoletta spells.

 

I'm sure I dont need to explain the argument about dmg type != keyword (see boiling spray)

[Boeroer]

Yes you do.

[AndreaColombo]

So I should be adding Spirit Tornado (Frost) and Dragon Thrashed (Fire) to the list. I’ll leave the others for now cause I agree with jww; as the keywords are not showing up in the ability’s description, it’s worth having the devs check these out.

 

Nights86: I agree with Boeroer. Boiling Spray is hot water—of course it would have the Water keyword and counter Fire (hot water still extinguishes fires.) In most other cases, keywords follow the damage type (and with good reason.)

Edited September 30, 2018 by AndreaColombo

[Nights86]

I just don't think there's anything "frosty" about iconic projection as described in the spell card. The devs would have the final word, but my assumption has always been that it was similar to cold damage from spirits/ghosts/phantoms etc. Are those "frosty"? Are they seen as creatures of frost/ice? I believe cold dmg is simply used because there's no "shadow", just like burn is often used because there is no "light".

 

There's a limited amount of dmg types in the system and they are used for a larger amount of spell types. I think some spells follow the pattern of boiling spray and the lack of keyword corresponding to the dmg type is not an inconsistency but intended. 

[AndreaColombo]

I believe cold dmg is simply used because there's no "shadow", just like burn is often used because there is no "light".

 

I don't think this is a particularly cogent argument. The point of having those keywords in place is so that the spells and abilities can benefit from the elemental talents; to say that some abilities use a specific damage type for lack of a better one is just debating semantics. Yes, "Sunbeam" would be better served by a "Light" keyword—and the "Scion of Flame" talent should include that keyword if it existed. The end result is that Sunbeam benefits from "Scion of Flame" either way.

[Boeroer]

Keywords should be used with consistency.

 

Attacks that do elemental dmg should get a proper keyword and work with the corresponding +PEN ability.

 

Everything else would just be an inconsequential and illogical mess.

[FailGeek]

For "Soul Ignition" the keyword is expressed in its "attack" data bundle but not the "ability" data bundle.

In vanilla, Scion of Flame does show that it works with "Soul Ignition" in its tool-tip, and that does mirror @Metaturtle's observations regarding "Her Revenge Swept Across The Land" and +Power Level gear. I can easily fold this into my existing mod for Cipher keywords so if you give me a little while I can upload an updated version that fixes all of these, with reference to this thread.

 

I wonder if there are any abilities that have the opposite problem: that the Keyword is present in its "ability" data bundle but not the "attack" that it references. And does the discrepancy even really matter on a practical level if any Keyword effects still work anyway? _{(it matters to me, personally, because the inconsistency will drive me insane for as long as I'm aware of it).}

[AndreaColombo]

_{(it matters to me, personally, because the inconsistency will drive me insane for as long as I'm aware of it).}

 

Same.

[FailGeek]

Done, and uploaded to Nexus and Workshop.

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/209

 

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1532617350

 

I substituted "Decay" with "Acid" because "Decay" is a Druid keyword.

[Boeroer]

Yes, good decision.

 

Special class keywords like Decay, Rejuvenation, Restoration, Evocation etc. that are used to give very distinct and separate bonuses to a certain should not be mixed with "universal" keywords like Fire, Acid, Shock and so on.

[Verde]

What about Toxic Strike with no Poison keyword?

Edited October 7, 2018 by Verde

[Boeroer]

No idea. I think the only class that has the Poison keyword among its abilites is Wizard (stuff like Malignant Cloud and such). They also have Acid. Noxious Burst has Acid AND Poison (and would profit from both - like Spirit of Decay + Spider Silk Robes + Mask of the Grotto Deep). Druids all have Decay instead of Poison (even when looking at stuff like Venomblood), Chanters have Acid.

[AndreaColombo]

What class has Toxic Strike?

[Verde]

What class has Toxic Strike?

Rogue. Upgraded from Withering Strike.

[AndreaColombo]

Good call. I'll add it to the list in the bug report.

[Verde]

Thx