How do I, um, penetrate?

[Haplok]

Or Streetfighter / Helwalker with party ranger and Takedown Combo/Devastating Blow/On the Edge Crit at max Wounds.

Agree its a LOT.

Edited September 28, 2018 by Haplok

[dunehunter]

you need high base dam + high dam bonus + high lash. Streetfighter can get highest dam bonus when On the edge + Backstab. Highest base dam might come from the special ability of the new pike? I remember it's like 30-40 base dam. High lash would be FoD + Turning wheel + lightning strike + weapon lash. But then it's Bleakwalker/Streetfighter/Helwalker, 3 classes combo

[anathanielh]

Rangers have the highest accuracy in the game (marked for the hunt, accurate wounding shot, concussive tranq, various passives, etc.) so they can easily break the penetration barrier with crits.

 

I use a ranger/monk(wanderer) so in addition to crits, I also have the tenacious buff from monks, which adds 2 penetration (3 extra on crits due to the +50% pen bonus). This allows me to get 21 (11 base, 6.5~7 crit bonus, 3 tenacious buff) penetration on most of my hits.

Edited September 29, 2018 by anathanielh

[Lampros]

Rangers have the highest accuracy in the game (marked for the hunt, accurate wounding shot, concussive tranq, various passives, etc.) so they can easily break the penetration barrier with crits.

 

I use a ranger/monk(wanderer) so in addition to crits, I also have the tenacious buff from monks, which adds 2 penetration (3 extra on crits due to the +50% pen bonus). This allows me to get 21 (11 base, 6.5~7 crit bonus, 3 tenacious buff) penetration on most of my hits.

 

So if you crit, then you will do decent damage even if your weapon's normal penetration is lower than the target's armor?

[Verde]

Oh TC, what a great topic title you have here lol

[Lampros]

Oh TC, what a great topic title you have here lol

 

The title was deliberately meant to be funny, but it was also a "fitting" one, given the topic!

Edited September 29, 2018 by Lampros

[Boeroer]

 

Rangers have the highest accuracy in the game (marked for the hunt, accurate wounding shot, concussive tranq, various passives, etc.) so they can easily break the penetration barrier with crits.

 

I use a ranger/monk(wanderer) so in addition to crits, I also have the tenacious buff from monks, which adds 2 penetration (3 extra on crits due to the +50% pen bonus). This allows me to get 21 (11 base, 6.5~7 crit bonus, 3 tenacious buff) penetration on most of my hits.

So if you crit, then you will do decent damage even if your weapon's normal penetration is lower than the target's armor?

If you crit your overall PEN will be multiplied by 1.5 which usually is enough to at least penetrate properly. So if enemies' AR is 13 and you only have 10 PEN (leading to a horrible dmg reduction) but crit, your PEN will be 15. Enough to easily penetrate the 13 AR.

[Lampros]

 

 

Rangers have the highest accuracy in the game (marked for the hunt, accurate wounding shot, concussive tranq, various passives, etc.) so they can easily break the penetration barrier with crits.

 

I use a ranger/monk(wanderer) so in addition to crits, I also have the tenacious buff from monks, which adds 2 penetration (3 extra on crits due to the +50% pen bonus). This allows me to get 21 (11 base, 6.5~7 crit bonus, 3 tenacious buff) penetration on most of my hits.

So if you crit, then you will do decent damage even if your weapon's normal penetration is lower than the target's armor?

If you crit your overall PEN will be multiplied by 1.5 which usually is enough to at least penetrate properly. So if enemies' AR is 13 and you only have 10 PEN (leading to a horrible dmg reduction) but crit, your PEN will be 15. Enough to easily penetrate the 13 AR.

 

 

Ah, ok; so crits multiply penetration. Very good to know. Looks like my DPS-ers have about 30-40 percent crit rate in the current Classic game I am running to learn the game. But I assume in PotD their crit rate will go down too, I guess (though I will have more optimized builds that do not involve story companions).

[Boeroer]

Yes, the crit rate on PotD usually is much lower because of higher defenses. But also the AR of enemies is higher on PotD. So basically low PEN builds get screwed twofold.

 

Because of that I wouldn't rely on crits alone to penetrate - since it severely reduces your damage output.

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

C'mon, tell them about conversions and weapon modals :D.

[Lampros]

Yes, the crit rate on PotD usually is much lower because of higher defenses. But also the AR of enemies is higher on PotD. So basically low PEN builds get screwed twofold.

 

Because of that I wouldn't rely on crits alone to penetrate - since it severely reduces your damage output.

 

I am planning on eating the +2 penetration food at all times. I will also have a Priest along, though since I automate everything, he/she might not hit every member with buffs (especially if the melees have moved far away already with CHarge or the Barbarian approach moves).

 

C'mon, tell them about conversions and weapon modals :D.

 

Explain?

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Conversions are effects that state % Hits to Crits. This means every time you score a hit it will be rolling a dice to see if it will get converted to a crit. You can use several of those and they don't stack; they do roll separately, so it's useful to have as many as you can. Potion of Perfects Strikes is one such very useful effect. 

 

By mentioning weapon modals I am actually a bit obscure... but what I mean is that you can stack several weapon modal debuffs, then target those deffences with other effects that further reduce deffences and armour and then get a very large basic crit chance by having a 100% accuracy on the targets. All in all, you have to micromanage a bit, but that's how you get good things in PoE x). 

 

If you're diligent with those you will be making more crits than this guy:

 

 

[Lampros]

I usually run with a few rests/ playthrough, have everyone eat hot razor skewers and forget about it. Hot Razor Skewers = +2 weapon pen, +1 power level.

 

My ranged builds usually have marksman's ring another +1 constant pen. For melee I prefer weapons with extra pen bonuses like Tarn's Respite (saber) and Rust's.

 

Yeah for my dps builds I always mix classes like devoted, Berserker (+2 pen Frenzy), Cipher (+1 pen on weapons and spells), Monk (Tenacious Blows +2 pen).

 

Finally, I run a chanter /x support in the party and Take "The Shield Cracks" and set it on high priority for heavily armored targets. Expose Vulnerabilities from Wiz works too but I like the Chanter debuff more because it sticks better and is easier to recast.  

 

Do Expose Vulnerabilities and the Shield Cracks stack? Embarrassed to admit, but I've never used either, LOL!

 

I think in PoE 1 PotD, I relied pretty much on Sacred Immolation and Dragon Thrashed.

[Lampros]

Conversions are effects that state % Hits to Crits. This means every time you score a hit it will be rolling a dice to see if it will get converted to a crit. You can use several of those and they don't stack; they do roll separately, so it's useful to have as many as you can. Potion of Perfects Strikes is one such very useful effect. 

 

By mentioning weapon modals I am actually a bit obscure... but what I mean is that you can stack several weapon modal debuffs, then target those deffences with other effects that further reduce deffences and armour and then get a very large basic crit chance by having a 100% accuracy on the targets. All in all, you have to micromanage a bit, but that's how you get good things in PoE x). 

 

If you're diligent with those you will be making more crits than this guy:

 

 

 

Ah, you mean armor debuff modals? I just discovered them last night accidentally. Boy I am a newb!

 

But I am not sure I like weapons those armor debuff modals come with

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

There's one weapon modal(Mace) that reduces armour and several others that reduce all the deffences. Check Clubs, Flails, Pikes and Morning Stars. 

 

For instance, I am quite fond of Clubs(-25 Will). Using a Cypher together with a tank that is using a club is great, becasue through lowered Will the Cypher can further reduce all other defenses. Just check out his abilities and look for the ones that reduce the basic stats(like Resolve and Intelligence). You can stack so many your target will be like a polymorphed sheep in the end.  

[Lampros]

There's one weapon modal(Mace) that reduces armour and several others that reduce all the deffences. Check Clubs, Flails, Pikes and Morning Stars. 

 

For instance, I am quite fond of Clubs(-25 Will). Using a Cypher together with a tank that is using a club is great, becasue through lowered Will the Cypher can further reduce all other defenses. Just check out his abilities and look for the ones that reduce the basic stats(like Resolve and Intelligence). You can stack so many your target will be like a polymorphed sheep in the end.  

 

LOL, "polymorphed sheep"! This is only useful in boss fights - or fights against massively durable enemies - though

[Lampros]

I have a question that keeps coming up in my builds: Is Penetrating Strike at all useful on a Devoted multi-class build?

 

For instance, I often take a Devoted/Rogue multi-class with warhammer specialization; and I always end up regretting taking Penetrating, because this guy already has 16 Penetration with legendary weapon and Penetration food. Moreover, I also run with someone who will debuff armor - whether it be a Chanter or a Wizard multi-class. So when will I ever need the +3 Penetration from Penetrating Strike? I would effectively need an enemy with 18 or more Armor for him to need Penetrating Strike, and I don't ever recall facing such an enemy.

 

In fact, even my Devoted/Ranger with Aamina's Legacy has 15 Penetration with Penetration food, and I don't really recall him having Penetration issues either.

 

So is Penetration Strike ever useful on a Devoted? I know you get an extra 20 percent damage full attack; but that's not really all that attractive when you see other seemingly more powerful and useful abilities competing for skill queue priority.

 

 

[Haplok]

Probably rarely useful for multiclass builds... but a cheap full attack for a pure fighter build... if there are such out there.

[Lampros]

Probably rarely useful for multiclass builds... but a cheap full attack for a pure fighter build... if there are such out there.

 

Yup; exactly. But I've been slotting it in reflexively, because so many Fighter or Fighter multi-class builds have it. So I thought it was an awesome, "required" type of skill.

[diamondsforever]

 

Probably rarely useful for multiclass builds... but a cheap full attack for a pure fighter build... if there are such out there.

Yup; exactly. But I've been slotting it in reflexively, because so many Fighter or Fighter multi-class builds have it. So I thought it was an awesome, "required" type of skill.

Funny I’m the exact opposite. I feel like the cost is to much for a skill point I could use elsewhere. Refreshing Defense for example.