[Class Build] Sorcerer: Cast first, questions never.

[Beriel]

The -mostly- finished version, in testing, of Waethir the mean.

Version: 2.1, POTD Compatible, Solo run untested.
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Sorcerer: Animist / Wizard (No Subclass)
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A magical dps that focus on dmg, CC, Debuff and general unpleasantness.
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Race: Nature Godlike
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Mystic Background
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Might: 15
Con: 8
Dex: 14 (+1 NG)
Per: 15 (+1 NG, +1 White that Wends)
Int: 15
Res: 8
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Skills: Metaphysics (for the Chromatic Staff), Sneak and Sleight of Hand (for fluff) or any you want.
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Weapon Focus: Medium Shield, Dagger, Staff, Flail
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Spellbooks: Ninagauth's Grimoire & Snakeskin Grimoire
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Spirit Form: Stag
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Abilites: Free (f), picked upon leveling (p), Grimoires (g). Abilities I won't use from the grimoire are unmentioned.

lvl 1: Sunbeam (f), Chill fog (p), Nature's Mark (p)
lvl 2 : Fleet Feet (p, replace once you get DAoM)
lvl 3 : Talon's Reach (p, replace with Touch of Rot later)
Slicken (g)

Sunbeam and Chill Fog both blind, but don't deal the same dmg/target the same defense. Nature's Mark makes Sunbeam and Talon's Reach hit easier. Talon's Reach got great early dmg, but will be replaced with Touch of Rot for additionnal DOT dmg to synergize with Combust wounds. Fleet Footed will be replaced by Arkemyr Dazzling Lights.

lvl 4 : The Moon's Light (f), Infuse with Vital Essence (p), Insect Swarm (p)
lvl 5 : Automn Decay (p)
lvl 6 : Combust Wounds (p)

Could pick Combust Wounds earlier but felt like I needed enough DOT to make it worthwhile (YMMV). At this point I rush to Neketara to do the Arkemyr Manor and get my grimoires and some items.

 

lvl 7 : Returning Storm (f), Infestation of Maggots (p), Llendrath's Displaced Image (p), Arduous Delay of Motion (g), Ninagauth's Death Ray (g), Noxious Burst (g)
lvl 8 : Deleterious Alacracity of Motion (p)
lvl 9 : Expose Vulnerabilities (p)

 

lvl 10 : Conjure Blight (f), Moonwell (p), Heart of the Storm (p), Ninagauth's Shadowflame (g), Ironskin (g)
lvl 11 : Calling the world's Maw (p)
lvl 12 : Form of the Delemgan (p)

Here I got Nannasin's Cobra Strike. It doesn't work that well with the build, but I must try it once to see if it's as cool as it seems. 

lvl 13 : Plague of Insects (f), Relentless Storm (p), Rapid Casting (p), Ryngrim's Enervating Terror (g), Malignant Cloud (g), Ninagauth's Bitter Mooring (g)
lvl 14 : Embrace the Earth Talon (p)
lvl 15 : Llengrath's Safeguard (p)

 

lvl 16 : Sunlance (f), Venombloom (p), Death Ring (g x2), Ninagauth's Freezing Pillar (g), Gaze of the Adragan's (g)
lvl 17 : ?
lvl 18 : ?

Another two slots I'm not sure how to fill. I already got all the spells I wanted, so either more spells (if I missed something important, do tell) or passives.

 

lvl 19 : Lashing Vine (f) Nature's Bounty (p), Lasting Empower (p), Tayn's Chaotic Orb (g), Ninagauth's Killing Bolt (g)
lvl 20 : Potent Empower

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Equipments!

Weapons: Dagger and Medium Shield at first for the increased defense using the modals (only if I read correctly and the additionnal recovery time is only for weapons), then options are;
The Spine of Thicket Green, Chromoprismatic Quarterstaff, Magran's Favor or Watershaper Focus & Sun and Moon, Griffin's Blade, The Eye of Wael are all going to be in my bag. Griffin's Blade and Chromoprismatic Quaterstaff have my preference however.

Armor: Aloth's Leather Armor, Miscreant Leather, Effigy Husk or Spider Silk Robe all feel like good choices.

Gloves: Firethrower's Gloves

Neck: Baubles of the Fin, Charm of Bones or Stone of Power

Rings: Kuaru's Prize, Ring of Greater Regeneration

Cloak: Ajamuut's Stalking Cloak

Belt: The Undying Burden

Shoes: Footprints of Ahu Taka

This build plays pretty easely; Buff up, throw a spell that include Crowd Control or Debuff that your enemy is weak against, throw a few DOT spells, add Combust Wounds and wrap up with Infestation of Maggots. Although I included more defensive spells and items, it's still pretty damn fragile and qualifies for the crystal chekhov armory.
I intend to have a pretty amoral POE1 backstory to have Effigy ressentment (CoC).
This build can Blind, Stun, Petrify, Sicken, Weaken, reduce defences and attributes... I hope I'll make Galawain proud.

Edited September 21, 2018 by Beriel

[bigwillystyle]

I'd probably go with Lifegiver instead of Animist.  As long as you're planning on casting Moon's Light and Moonwell, it's almost a no-brainer.  I used to be meh on Lifegiver, but then I tried it.  

 

I'd probably go Lifegiver / Cat Form.  Start every combat by shifting into Cat and activating Cat Flurry [available every encounter!], buff up quickly, cast Moon's Light with a whopping +6 PL [+5 Lifegiver, +1 Nature Godlike].  Then go to town.  You can probably get all your buffs / debuffs out along with a round of attack spells.  

 

I might also consider moving Dex down to 10 and putting the rest into Might / Int / Per (whatever).  With Fleet Feet and Cat Form Flurry, you'll be throwing out spells super fast.  Now granted that's only for as long as Cat Form lasts, but still ...

 

Other than that, your spell choice looks solid to me.  I would be hard pressed not to use Nnigauth's grimoire for Shadowflame, but YMMV.  

 

I actually really like this build.

 

EDIT: I'd also pick up the Spine of Thicket Green early on for another +2 PLs to Druid healing.  That's +8 PL while shifted.  +8!  

Edited September 17, 2018 by bigwillystyle

[Haplok]

Not quite, as weapons don't count when shifted...

[bigwillystyle]

Well darn it

[brasilgringo]

There's an argument to go full druid Lifegiver, using the spine of thicket green enchanted to +3 PL for healing and for Beast spells (which include some potent DOTs like Insect Swarm).  You can pick up the Electricity talent along the way for storm spells.  I find I've got more than my hands full with druid-only spells - the one thing that's missing is a speed buff, but I don't think that's necessarily worth going /wizard and losing out on the level 8-9 druid spells.   

 

Tip:  use the level 1 druid spell that gives "Fit" and is kind of insta-cast to buff your nature godlike PL, if you don't have Infuse with Vital Essence or equivalent wiz spell.  I think it works?

[jww]

I'm working on a sorcerer build based on the things people typically say about sorcerer on this forum: Too many spells to cast during a fight, and not enough power behind those spells. I'm sure that second part is probably correct when compared to a single-class evoker, but I thought... maybe if I can toss out every single spell quickly during every single fight fight, it'll help make up for not having PL 8 and 9 spells. And if my equipment and abilities are focused on improving the spells that I do have, it also helps make up for not having the extra PL.

 

So, I worked up the Speedy Sorcerer. I've had to stop playing the game for a while, so I'm only at level 14, but I can tell you what I've found so far. I can't tell you how it compares to a single-class wizard, because I've never played a high-level single-class wizard. I'm pretty sure the wizard will significantly out-damage it in the end (and can use many of the same things I'm using to improve its spell-casting ability), but it's kind of fun tossing out a massive number of spells in every fight.

 

Attributes, including Berath's Blessings and equipment:

MIG 16

CON 8

DEX 25

PER 20

INT 20

RES 7

 

Race: Nature Godlike (+1 PL when using Infuse with Vital Essence or a Dex inspiration)

Class: Fury (+1 PEN on Elemental spells), Evoker (+2 PL Evocation spells)

 

Important Equipment:

Miscreant's Leathers + Abraham (reduce recovery time as much as possible)

Ring of Focused Flame (+10 Accuracy with Fire attacks)

Ninagauth's Teachings (I like Ninaguath's Shadowflame, and was expecting a better bonus to it from Watershaper's Focus, but see below)

Firethrower's Gloves (+1 PL Evocation spells)

 

Weapons (can only use one at a time, so have to switch between them, so I'm working on figuring out how to batch spells together based on what bonuses they need):

Lord Darryn's Voulge: +3 Storm PL

 

Watershaper's Focus: +1 Water/Frost PL. I thought this was +2 when I started this build, and expected to get a lot more use out of it, but honestly right now I don't usually bother switching to it unless I want to auto-attack from a distance.

 

Spine of Thicket Green: +3 Beast/Plant PL. I haven't really used this yet, and might get rid of it, to make room for:

 

Magran's Favor: I don't have this yet, but I understand it adds Fire PL.

 

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My AI script casts Infuse with Vital Essence and Deleterious Alacrity of Motion when they are not active, which gives 25 INT for larger area-of-effect and 30 DEX (plus 15% action speed), which, when combined with Miscreant's Leathers and Abraham, allows very fast casting of spells. I also auto-cast Eldritch Aim, which combined with 20 PER helps hit things. Eldritch Aim doesn't have a long duration even with 25 INT, but I use the Inn bonus that gives me an extra 1st level spell, so I can get 1 Spirit Shield and 2 Eldritch Aims per fight, and I cast my heavy hitters early in the fight to take advantage of it.

 

Passives focus on things that enhance spell-casting, in particular Rapid Casting and all of the +PEN abilities (I don't have them all yet, but working on it).

 

For spells, I mostly focus on spells that are enhanced by my abilities and equipment, e.g., druid storm elemental spells (a total of +4 PL and +2 PEN) and wizard evocation spells (a total of +4 PL and +1 PEN), plus a few others, like Touch of Rot, which was great at low levels but has too low of PEN during mid-levels on PotD (but I'm hoping it picks up at higher levels). Spells are spread a cross a wide variety of damage types and areas of effect, to respond to different scenarios. And Hail Storm's area-of-effect is absolutely massive.

 

It's possible that there are more effective DoT spells that the evoker misses out on, but I was focused on spells I could enhance with abilities and equipment.

 

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As for effectiveness, levels 1 to 5 were pretty awesome (mostly from Touch of Rot). From about levels 6 to 12, I felt like I was losing ground -- enemies had too much armor on PotD. But as of level 13, I've felt like that's started turning around. With Relentless Storm, and two casts each of Hail Storm and Ninagauth's Shadowflame, I've started making some real progress...as long as my tanks can hold the enemies to a spot where I can hit a bunch of them at once. I don't know how well it will play at high levels.

 

--

 

Gameplay: Very fast. You probably don't want to play the challenge that doesn't let you pause the game. Very, very squishy, especially with DAoM. If I didn't have three different regen auras from my tanks, I'd switch from DAoM to Fleet Feet. Also, I'm having a problem with my buff-only AI, where if it's active, then it makes me run (very fast) to auto-attack the enemies every time I'm finished casting a spell. Reported it as a bug, but that's one of the reasons why this character is on hold. Definitely not designed for solo play. Probably the best part of the gameplay is that it's the most active I've been with a character -- constantly switching between spells based on environment, enemies, and formations. Very different than a lot of the melee builds I've made that focused on one or two abilities over and over again.

 

If I ever finish the game with this build, and it turns out to be effective at high levels, I'll probably write up a build post, but I didn't want to write up the build until I was sure it was effective.

Edited September 18, 2018 by jww

[Haplok]

Did you try switching AI from Aggressive to Defensive/Passive Behaviour?

[Beriel]

Thanks for all those comments, a few answers;

- I really wanted to get Ninagauth's Shadowflame, fireball with paralysed is awesome, but Spore-Loated got all the spells I like/wanted on a wizard, and it feels a bit of a pain to get a Grimoire switch just to get one spell, albeit a very cool one.

- The goal here is a druid caster focused on damage and CC, and the 8/9 levels on druid don't feel very good for that, thus multiclassing with wizard for more spells and utilities.

 

- Lifegiver doesn't really lose anything and gets better healing spells, however the heals are not the focus here. I didn't check if I could get a similar spell selection while taking Lifegiver. Same thing for Fury but with better PEN, I really need to check if it works, will edit today, however the point of the build is that I don't have to worry about PEN if I always have a spell that focuses on the enemy weakness.

 

- I have not given the shifting mechanic much thought, on test I picked the antelope for additionnal defenses but I might want to take bear for emergencies... I could really use advice on that one. Your cat combo sounds cool, and it would free points, but I worry, what happens if I shift back and the enemy is still not dead with my lowered action speed?

 

- Two things; first your sorcerer and mine don't seem to have the same starting point; I want a druid with more, you seem to have got an evoker nuker with druid spells. Both cool, but different (I also seem to focus more on CC than you are? Just an impression). Second, we don't use the same spells, I don't favor DAoM because I'm already squishy and I feel fast enough from the DEX (I do inted to pick some items, probably similar ones).

 

Additionnaly, I just don't trust the party AI with AOE spells that are not FOE only. A badly placed Chill Fog (looking at you Aloth è_é) can really wreck the party, so I'll have more hands down control on that guy.

[Beriel]

OK, so after checking the only subclass that doesn't lose AP for spells I don't want compared to Animist is shifter... Not what I was looking for, so it stays Animist.

Also, went over all the druid and wizard spells again and I am going to make a few changes, finished (albeit untested) version soon, with more PER (I'm really going to need all the accuracy I can get).

[jww]

Did you try switching AI from Aggressive to Defensive/Passive Behaviour?

 

Yes. The behavior that's labeled as "Auto-Attack" is actually determining whether the AI script as a whole triggers. So if it's set to Passive, my AI (buffs only) doesn't trigger at all. If it's set to Defensive, it'll only trigger if I run up to the enemies (or, I guess, if they run up to me). I posted on the tech support forum but there hasn't been a resolution yet, and I don't know if anybody else is encountering the same issue.

[peolone]

I have had this issue since 1.0. Which is why I have simply stopped using AI

[jww]

- Two things; first your sorcerer and mine don't seem to have the same starting point; I want a druid with more, you seem to have got an evoker nuker with druid spells. Both cool, but different (I also seem to focus more on CC than you are? Just an impression). Second, we don't use the same spells, I don't favor DAoM because I'm already squishy and I feel fast enough from the DEX (I do inted to pick some items, probably similar ones).

 

Additionnaly, I just don't trust the party AI with AOE spells that are not FOE only. A badly placed Chill Fog (looking at you Aloth è_é) can really wreck the party, so I'll have more hands down control on that guy.

 

Right, they are different builds, but they are both sorcerers and likely to encounter many of the same issues, so I just thought I'd let you know what I've encountered so far. Even with a different spell selection, if you are playing PotD, you may run into the same issue I did where things felt a bit slow during the mid levels before they started improving again. If you're not playing PotD, you probably won't have that problem.

 

The AI I was referring to is only for casting buffs, not for targeting spells. I have four buffs that cast at the beginning of every fight (Infuse with Vital Essence, DAoM, Spirit Shield, and Eldritch Aim), so I've automated that step. I manually control the character for everything else - I agree that it's much better to target AoE spells myself, whether they are foe-only or not.

[bigwillystyle]

Strange bug (?) I encountered yesterday.  I booted up 2.1 for the first time and made a Nature Godlike Lifegiver / No Subclass Sorcerer.  After making to level four, I self-buffed with Infuse Vital Essence, shape-shifted and then cast Moon's Light.  I was getting a +40% PL buff (+8 power levels).  Should have been +6 (+5 Lifegiver, +1 Nature Godlike).  After playing around with it for a bit, it seemingly looks like Lifegivers are getting +2 PLs to healing, +5 extra when shifted, for a total of +7.  I thought that it worked differently in the past.  

[Manveru123]

If you want to play a Sorcerer, add Tekehu to your party and go pure Druid. His subclass is basically a better Sorcerer.

[Beriel]

Thanks for your input Manveru, however since I knew about Teheku's prowess and did not ask for a companion but for building help, this is not exactly on topic.

[Flucas]

I've played a solo sorcerer for a while. Basically, it's about landing DoT's while tanking with (de)buffs. Your druid heals combined with defensive buffs should last long enough for enemies to die to DoT's and fireball spams.

 

Open with Chillfog > cast vital essence > defensive buffs > debuffs for landing more spells (eg wicked briars) > swarm, touch of rot > contain & sustain

 

Other spells i used a lot were ardeous delay, merciless gaze, llengraths displaced image, pull of eora, the raw damage beam (grimoire), fireballs (paralyzing fireball ftw (grimoire)), freezing pillar and necrotic lance (for priority single targets).

 

Prioritize PER + INT > Might > CON > DEX > RES. Resolve is crap, gives almost nothing. dagger modal + shield gives u twice the deflection you sacrifice. More con means u got more room for error, unlucky crits or getting CC'd. Dex doesn't do anything for your spells, they are limited in use anyways so no point in doing it faster. I dropped dex to 8 base (for 10 with blessing).

 

Hope this helps!

[Boeroer]

Is this build finished now? I'm doing my monthly search for builds (that are not in the build list yet) and the opening post still says "unfinished".

[Beriel]

finished the main quests, just BoW & the 3.0 content to do but the build is having too much trouble with spell PEN in the last quarter of the game, I've got another Fury based with better PEN sorcerer that I'm currently playing, should I post it here? another post? or should I finish the game first?

Edited September 27, 2018 by Beriel

[Boeroer]

As you like. I just want to make sure that I include builds into the list which the authors wants to have there.

[Beriel]

I'm not a great player or builder or anything but I thought the Sorcerer needed some love I'll just post a new topic for the Fury one and let this one die, it's not bad but it doesn't feel good enough to be a reference.

[Boeroer]

Okay!