Melee weapons help

[Lampros]

I wish Amra was a morning star....that would make it the perfect barbarian weapon.

Oh well I can easily mod it to one but if it were naturally so it would go from very good weapon to great weapon...kind of the rolls royce of two handed melee weapons, kind of like red hand is for two handed ranged. 

 

What's the best 2H weapon?

[Mocker22]

It depends heavily on the build. Some special properties allow for very specialized builds that make them shine, for example Willbreaker wielded by a barbarian that is designed around lowering fortitude saves. Off the top of my head, all Estocs are very good, both 2h battleaxes can be great if built for, Wahai Poraga is great for hitting up to 4 targets, Citzal's is god-tier as a summoned weapon in the right builds. I'm not particularly familiar with bows but I've seen some really cool setups for Frostseeker and have heard good things about others. The Red Hand is god-mode for single target dps from a ranged 2her. If you read through some of the builds that interest you in the build list, you'll see some of the items that get built for specifically.

 

Personally, I've recently been enjoying versatile weapon setups more. My current Swashbuckler playthrough is using Kapana Taga, Stalker's Patience, and Wahai Poraga depending on the situation.

[1TTFFSSE]

 

I wish Amra was a morning star....that would make it the perfect barbarian weapon.

Oh well I can easily mod it to one but if it were naturally so it would go from very good weapon to great weapon...kind of the rolls royce of two handed melee weapons, kind of like red hand is for two handed ranged. 

 

What's the best 2H weapon?

 

Melee:

1A. Citzal's Spirit Lance 

Most consistent high dps if you can have it being a wizard or a wizard/x. Probably best with wizard/monk but wizard/zerker its really good too

 

1B. Amra and Lord Darryn's Voulge* 

LDV is at this tier on a barbarian only because carnage does apply the static charge on multiple enemies. Both weapons are easy to get and LDV can be upgraded very fast - but only to superior but on a barb it is still does excellent damage even as superior. Late game when you can upgrade AMRA to legendary that one may have a slight edge.

 

1C. Oathbreaker and Espirs as well as Wohai Poraga*

The first two are Late game weapons I guess. In terms of damage, they do "bigger" bursts of damage than the above but are less consistent in overall dps. 

Wohai is a special case and is only at this tier on special riposte rogue/tank builds that want to become surrounded by enemies and then attack back when enemies miss you. But in such a build Citzals is still probably better on a Rogue/Wizard

 

2A. Voidwheel 

best single target 2h edging out amra late game in single target dps at the cost of aoe splash

 

2B. Effort - on certain suicide retaliation builds but Oathbreaker is I think better on those

 

The rest are stopgaps

 

Ranged:

 

1A Minor Blights*

on a riposte wizard/rogue you can dual wield these with Tuotilio's Palm shield for great damage, oops this is not a two handed weapon though

 

OK traditional 2 handed ranged weapons:

 

1A. option 1 Aamina's Legacy

doesn't look spectacular but it is the most efficient at getting the job done as long as you can have the hunting bow fast modal active and hit (stack/increase accuracy) and have enough penetration (stack and increase penetration)

1A option 2 The Red Hand

It's more bursty than the Hunting bow obviously - with +20% damage done it is equal to Aamina's Legacy in overall dps though minus rng. Also does not run into the penetration problems but may run into pierce immune problem. If you can stack the other enchantment on it - the +40% damage done/ damage taken one and not rest then yes it is the highest ranged dps weapon out there and will do 15-25% more dps than Aamina's depending on rng.

 

A note on Frostseeker - yeah the best "aoe" two handed ranged weapon, but results of dps will be very much less spectacular than the above weapons unless you deliberately stack enemies all the time for the aoe splash damage. that said it depends on party setup and tactics, if you have a tank that locks down all the mobs around them like a swashbuckler this weapon is naturally a good idea to use if you are not going with the mortars. 

[Boeroer]

Even Battlemage (Wizard/Fighter) is great with Spirit Lance. Main reasons are that Mule Kick + AoE is a great interruptor and Clear Out + Lance is a great damage tool (every AoE hit of Clear Out triggers AoE of Lance) - best be done from stealth after casting Dazzling Lights to lure enemies to a spot where they form a tight group.

 

A great weapon and shield build who can tank well while doing lots of damage is a Trickster/Unbroken with White Witch Mask, Reckless Brigandine (+1 engagement, +5% speed for each engagement), Kapana Taga and Akola's Apex Ward (+1 engagement). Pick Mob Stance (not Defender), Persistent Distraction (+1 Engagement, unlocking Sneak Attack/Deathblows on engagement), and enchant Kapana Taga with "Champion's Relic" (+2 engagement, +5% dmg per engaged) and "Unblockable" (+4 ACC per engaged target), Reckless Brigandine with "Into the Breach" (+ dmg when health goes down) and Akola's Apex Ward with "Hide and Tooth" and "Shark Teeth Counter". Pick Riposte and Snake's Refelxes as well as Adept Evasion and Refreshing Defenses (stacks with Mirrrored Image and such). Also Deep Wounds of course. Escape can be a great emergency button.

Once you hit Bloodied (50% health) your mask will trigger terrified on all nearby enemies, stopping them from attacking. But you will have increased dmg because of the enchantments and take them out quickly without getting attacked further.

 

This will give you a character that not only has self heal, great overall defenses and very high deflection (+50 when Mirrored Image and Vigorous Defense are up) but also has a 20% chance to do a Kapana-Taga-Riposte on getting missed, a 25% chance to do a crush Riposte on getting missed, triggers Distracted on 5 engaged enemies (you can take Hold the Line to make it 6) and thus triggers Sneak/Deathblows automatically to everybody he ripostes to (and attacks actively). The passive "AoE" dmg output is great (tons of crits, too) and at the same time enemies get severely punished with hefty disengagement attacks as soon as they want to escape that meat grinder. Before getting Kapana Taga (it requires a good ship setup to beat the Black Isle Bastards, I did it with a Voyager with a long range gun in the back and two Hullbreakers in the front) you can use a spear + modal. The attack speed is great for somebody in heavy armor, too.

 

AND you can cast Gaze of the Andragan at some point.

 

Also nice: with Snake's Reflexes, Weapon & Shield Style and Adept Evasion you can nuke your own tank (and all engaged enemies) with AoE spells that target reflex all day long: the high AR and the 100% graze to miss on reflex as well as the +20 reflex from Refreshing Defense will make sure you don't hit your tank - and if you do he gets -75% damage most of times.  

 

One of the most fun and effective "tanks" I had in a party with very little micro involved. Also looks great (if you like the Huana style). Onlöy thing is that you really have to annoy the Huana faction so that they send a bounty hunter for you who has the shield. That's not difficult to do, but it might collide with the faction-decisions you planned to make. In this case the best melee weapon is Kapana Taga + Apex Ward because it fits best in every way. I used that one spear with +dmg and +PEN per Survival but since it got nerfed Kapana Taga is the best option.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Boeroer

[AndreaColombo]

I think BotEP is pretty good for single-target DPS. It never seems to get much love.

[Boeroer]

It is nice. Also because you can get it so early. If you look at dps over the course of a whole playthrough it surely is a top choice.

[Haplok]

 

 

I wish Amra was a morning star....that would make it the perfect barbarian weapon.

Oh well I can easily mod it to one but if it were naturally so it would go from very good weapon to great weapon...kind of the rolls royce of two handed melee weapons, kind of like red hand is for two handed ranged. 

 

What's the best 2H weapon?

 

Melee:

1A. Citzal's Spirit Lance 

Most consistent high dps if you can have it being a wizard or a wizard/x. Probably best with wizard/monk but wizard/zerker its really good too

 

1B. Amra and Lord Darryn's Voulge* 

LDV is at this tier on a barbarian only because carnage does apply the static charge on multiple enemies. Both weapons are easy to get and LDV can be upgraded very fast - but only to superior but on a barb it is still does excellent damage even as superior. Late game when you can upgrade AMRA to legendary that one may have a slight edge.

 

1C. Oathbreaker and Espirs as well as Wohai Poraga*

The first two are Late game weapons I guess. In terms of damage, they do "bigger" bursts of damage than the above but are less consistent in overall dps. 

Wohai is a special case and is only at this tier on special riposte rogue/tank builds that want to become surrounded by enemies and then attack back when enemies miss you. But in such a build Citzals is still probably better on a Rogue/Wizard

 

2A. Voidwheel 

best single target 2h edging out amra late game in single target dps at the cost of aoe splash

 

2B. Effort - on certain suicide retaliation builds but Oathbreaker is I think better on those

 

The rest are stopgaps

 

Ranged:

 

1A Minor Blights*

on a riposte wizard/rogue you can dual wield these with Tuotilio's Palm shield for great damage, oops this is not a two handed weapon though

 

OK traditional 2 handed ranged weapons:

 

1A. option 1 Aamina's Legacy

doesn't look spectacular but it is the most efficient at getting the job done as long as you can have the hunting bow fast modal active and hit (stack/increase accuracy) and have enough penetration (stack and increase penetration)

1A option 2 The Red Hand

It's more bursty than the Hunting bow obviously - with +20% damage done it is equal to Aamina's Legacy in overall dps though minus rng. Also does not run into the penetration problems but may run into pierce immune problem. If you can stack the other enchantment on it - the +40% damage done/ damage taken one and not rest then yes it is the highest ranged dps weapon out there and will do 15-25% more dps than Aamina's depending on rng.

 

A note on Frostseeker - yeah the best "aoe" two handed ranged weapon, but results of dps will be very much less spectacular than the above weapons unless you deliberately stack enemies all the time for the aoe splash damage. that said it depends on party setup and tactics, if you have a tank that locks down all the mobs around them like a swashbuckler this weapon is naturally a good idea to use if you are not going with the mortars. 

 

 

 

Nice list. But IMO it's not complete without Eager Blade. This estoc is also end-game worthy IMO, although Engoliero de Espirs is probably slightly better overall. But nothing to sneeze at with extra cone aoe damage when hitting Near Death targets, 10% to void recovery, stacking bonus speed & accuracy on crit plus a random boost every encounter, like extra 10% Damage/ +1 Armor/ +4 Deflection.

 

BotEP is a nice single target estoc too with high stacking Accuracy bonuses, 15% speed bonus and crit damage bonus, like AndreaColombo mentioned.

 

Also Whispers of the Endless Paths is a very interesting, if niche, weapon. But you did include Wahai Poraga, which is arguably even more niche, Effort, which is definitely more niche and LDV, which is cool, but again, really great only for Barbarians and Druids. WotEP deals low damage (like Wahai Poraga), but works in an aoe cone attack. Which also can deliver special attacks (stun, blind, hobble and so on)/DoTs to multiple targets at once. Plus it has Crush lash, extra attack range, nice Retaliation/Attack speed enchants and nice special attacks (aoe 360 deg. attack/high damage single target impale).

Edited September 17, 2018 by Haplok

[dunehunter]

I think BotEP is pretty good for single-target DPS. It never seems to get much love.

 

Because it's a low base damage two handed weapon without lash. In raw calculation without concerning any synergy, a estoc without lash is pretty bad imo. But it's stats is pretty good, specially on a Swift Flurry/Heartbeat Drumming Shadowdancer imo.

[Haplok]

BUT on the other hand, estocs have high Penetration AND a modal which trades Deflection (which isn't important for many characters) for even more Penetration. So they are the kings of Penetration.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Haplok

[dunehunter]

BUT on the other hand, estocs have high Penetration AND a modal which trades Deflection (which isn't important for many characters) for even more Penetration. So they are the kings of Penetration.

 

The modal pen bonus doesn't stack with lvl 3 might inspiration which is pretty sad to me. And if you are in a team, it is very easy to get high pen without using low dam weapons, with the help from Chanter, Wizard and Cipher. For soloing yeah, it is a must for some classes who cannot reach high pen by themselves.

[Haplok]

It's convenient either way IMO. AND together with a high crit rate, it can often lead to Overpenetration bonus +30% damage. So I would definitely not discount it.

[dunehunter]

That overpen bonus is an addtive bonus, while base damage, lash are all multiplier, it's totally different. Not to mention that it's a two handed weapon so it's underwhelming than dual wielding for full attacks, so overall it's not that good imo.

[Haplok]

Are you playing on 2.1? Full Attack playing field is now significantly more balanced, at least damage-wise. I don't feel I'm doing inferior damage with a two-hander anymore. Less chances to land afflictions, slower reactions, sure.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Haplok

[dunehunter]

On rogue it’s still yes. And two weapon gives more enchantment which means more power, like Magran favor + sun and moon = 4 fire PL.

 

If A is equal to B in some aspect and inferior to B in some other aspects, overall A is worse than B still isn’t it

Edited September 17, 2018 by dunehunter

[Haplok]

One handed weapons have some nice enchantments, but in principle are missing out in the aoe damage area (except some weak elemental bursts). Meanwhile some 2h weapons have nice aoe effects. Eager Blade is one of those.

[dunehunter]

One handed weapons have some nice enchantments, but in principle are missing out in the aoe damage area (except some weak elemental bursts). Meanwhile some 2h weapons have nice aoe effects. Eager Blade is one of those.

 

I thought we were talking about BotEP earlier? Grave Calling, Hel Bekoning, Sungrazer, all very good aoe single handed weapons btw.

[Haplok]

About BotEP, which is a good single-target, yes, but also about Eager Blade.

 

As for 1h choices:

 

Grave Calling? That's on vessel kill only, right? A cool trick with a Chanter is possible, but Can the ChillFog penetrate most enemies on PotD?

 

Hel Beckoning? Come on, Fort save? Sounds weak.

 

Sungrazer I haven't used, so don't know the magnitude of the effect, but it needs BOTH a kill AND critical hit to trigger? Typically two-handers require EITHER kill (Engoliero, Oathbreaker) or crit (Amra, LDV) or some other effect (hitting near dead enemies for Eager Blade). Requiring both, it'd seem not very likely to trigger very often.

Or did you mean the 5% chance effect?

Edited September 17, 2018 by Haplok

[dunehunter]

About BotEP, which is a good single-target, yes, but also about Eager Blade.

 

As for 1h choices:

 

Grave Calling? That's on vessel kill only, right? A cool trick with a Chanter is possible, but Can the ChillFog penetrate most enemies on PotD?

 

Hel Beckoning? Come on, Fort save? Sounds weak.

 

Sungrazer I haven't used, so don't know the magnitude of the effect, but it needs BOTH a kill AND critical hit to trigger? Typically two-handers require EITHER kill (Engoliero, Oathbreaker) or crit (Amra, LDV) or some other effect (hitting near dead enemies for Eager Blade). Requiring both, it'd seem not very likely to trigger very often.

Or did you mean the 5% chance effect?

 

AoE weapons are for trash mobs, it doesn't matter what defense u target, you will not use it for a boss with 150+ fortitude defense anyway. Sungrazer is pretty good on a rogue, although it's on kill & on crit, the damage is pretty high, also aoe from the on kill proc can trigger that 5% chance effect too, so it's not as low as u imagine. Same as the soulbound dagger, it has a 10% chance AOE effect which can trigger itself.

Edited September 17, 2018 by dunehunter

[mant2si]

 

About BotEP, which is a good single-target, yes, but also about Eager Blade.

 

As for 1h choices:

 

Grave Calling? That's on vessel kill only, right? A cool trick with a Chanter is possible, but Can the ChillFog penetrate most enemies on PotD?

 

Hel Beckoning? Come on, Fort save? Sounds weak.

 

Sungrazer I haven't used, so don't know the magnitude of the effect, but it needs BOTH a kill AND critical hit to trigger? Typically two-handers require EITHER kill (Engoliero, Oathbreaker) or crit (Amra, LDV) or some other effect (hitting near dead enemies for Eager Blade). Requiring both, it'd seem not very likely to trigger very often.

Or did you mean the 5% chance effect?

 

AoE weapons are for trash mobs, it doesn't matter what defense u target, you will not use it for a boss with 150+ fortitude defense anyway. Sungrazer is pretty good on a rogue, although it's on kill & on crit, the damage is pretty high, also aoe from the on kill proc can trigger that 5% chance effect too, so it's not as low as u imagine. Same as the soulbound dagger, it has a 10% chance AOE effect which can trigger itself.

 

If you need AOE, just pick pure Monk, their L8 - L9 skills the funniest melee skills in the game, they work both on Single Target and on Multiple Targets, do decent damage

Edited September 17, 2018 by mant2si

[Haplok]

Well, sure, but:

1. I don't really play single classes, as I feel I would be missing out on MC options

2. I care about gameplay from level 1 trough level 20 (well, actually 10-20, I'm willing to go with13-20, but not at levels 16(19)-20 only).

 

I generally test characters at level 13, pitting them against Xaurip encounter on Neketaka island. Most fail that test, though I'm willing to provide some handicaps for "party" characters.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Haplok

[mant2si]

Well, sure, but:

1. I don't really play single classes, as I feel I would be missing out on MC options

2. I care about gameplay from level 1 trough level 20 (well, actually 10-20, I'm willing to go with13-20, but not at levels 16(19)-20 only).

 

I generally test characters at level 13, pitting them against Xaurip encounter on Neketaka island. Most fail that test, though I'm willing to provide some handicaps for "party" characters.

Oh, did you test L13 monk ? How Character with Blade Turning and The Dichotomous Soul  can lose this battle ? 

Edited September 17, 2018 by mant2si

[Haplok]

As I wrote, I didn't test pure classes ... except for Barb, I think.

 

Yeah, the twins would be a nice perk. But for my builds they come at level 19

Blade Turning is also good... but there are also pretty nasty rangers there (plus 2 casters), so that might not be enough.

[mant2si]

As I wrote, I didn't test pure classes ... except for Barb, I think.

 

Yeah, the twins would be a nice perk. But for my builds they come at level 19

Blade Turning is also good... but there are also pretty nasty rangers there (plus 2 casters), so that might not be enough.

So you never try One big shield and Blade Turning will complete this fight pretty fast, you spawn copies and Blade Turning that it 

Edited September 17, 2018 by mant2si

[Haplok]

Nope, I mostly tried more... offensive configurations (often two-handed) and multiclasses. Oh, and I also didn't really use consumables

But yeah, good point about large shield. I'm sure a pure monk with a large shield could do it. Still it would be a bit of a balancing act: getting enough wounds to keep blade turning up and surviving. Blade Turning is really nice with SoT though.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Haplok

[mant2si]

Nope, I mostly tried more... offensive configurations (often two-handed) and multiclasses. Oh, and I also didn't really use consumables

But yeah, good point about large shield. I'm sure a pure monk with a large shield could do it. Still it would be a bit of a balancing act: getting enough wounds to keep blade turning up and surviving. Blade Turning is really nice with SoT though.

Yes, I don't talk about consumables, if you worrying about Wounds ranger guys will generate them enough, you can also equip Heavy Armor, but even Devil Caroc will be enough

Edited September 17, 2018 by mant2si