Ways to decrease enemy fortitude?

[Teclis23]

Most abilities, spells and afflictions target fortitude which allways seems to be the highest defence 

 

Have you found any ways to bring it down

 

Would help alot if there was a easy way of decreasing it

[Raven Darkholme]

Monk's weakened on crit is quite good.

Cipher has a power that targets will and lowers fort, but that is much less potent, since many enemies with high fort also have high will.

[brasilgringo]

That Morningstar modal I think does it - plus the one you get from Arkymyr's basement dungeon has some poison lashes and chance to kill, and works well on a Barbarian that takes the passive to target fortitude.  Bashing things with morningstar helps the whole party. 

 

[Boeroer]

Moning Star's modal "Body Blows" brings fortitude down by a whopping 25 points.

[thundercleese]

Too bad OP considers two-handers a "complete waste of time".

 

I believe the Druid spell Nature's Mark (PL1 spell) lowers fort and will by -10? Also any might or constitution affliction will lower it by 10.

[Dorftek]

Yeah Sickened/weakened+morningstar is the way to go.

 

If you are asking for Cipher disintegrate wich is what I am going to assume because of ur recent cipher thread I'd suggest bleakwalker+cipher with morningstar modal. One hit brings fortitude down by 35 points, with ur borrowed instinct that's an effective 55acc boost for disintegrate.

 

Another great option is barb/cipher but that's going to be squisher and u would have to cast that sickened/frightened debuff wich I've inconveniently temporarily forgot the name of with the cipher to achieve the same result as a bleakwalkes FoD.

[Gromnir]

Too bad OP considers two-handers a "complete waste of time".

 

I believe the Druid spell Nature's Mark (PL1 spell) lowers fort and will by -10? Also any might or constitution affliction will lower it by 10.

thought nature's mark were deflection and reflex.

 

boeroer mention o' morningstar  is worth repeating-- am thinking the club and morningstar modals is overlooked far too frequent.  also, secret horrors, a low level cipher ability with a large aoe, targets will but produces sickened.  use clubs to reduce will and then hit with secret horrors and expose vulnerabilities to seriously put a cramp in a foe's defenses. spreading plague is a nice druid ability which weakens, but it targets fort.

 

am personal finding the best way to deal with a foe who has high fort is to attack will.  is many debilitating will effects.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps priestly 1st level barbs is also underutilized. am guessing lack o' use is in part 'cause o' its relative poe1 impotence.  the -5 to all defenses effect is more significant in poe2 than were the case in poe 1 and is doing respectable damage for a level 1 ability with great range. only drawback is, once again, it targets fort... and there is other even more essential first level priest spells if you only got 1 priest in your party.  shining beacon is also kinda keen as it lowers fort (and everything else) by ten while targeting will.  but again, chances are good you missed shining beacon in favor o' devotions or triumph or whatnot.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Gromnir

[thundercleese]

 

Too bad OP considers two-handers a "complete waste of time".

 

I believe the Druid spell Nature's Mark (PL1 spell) lowers fort and will by -10? Also any might or constitution affliction will lower it by 10.

thought nature's mark were deflection and reflex.

Very well could be, I barely use Druid so was going off a (hazy) memory.

[Boeroer]

Nature's Mark lowers deflection and reflex.

Morning Star + CON affliction + MIG affliction will lead to -45 fortitude I believe. A Witch with Spirit Tornado/Leap, Willbreaker and Secret Horrors, making use of Brute Force should have 0 problems.
Willbreaker also lowers will on hit and applies a RES afflicton. So fort AND will will be down.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Boeroer

[grasida]

ps priestly 1st level barbs is also underutilized. am guessing lack o' use is in part 'cause o' its relative poe1 impotence.  the -5 to all defenses effect is more significant in poe2 than were the case in poe 1 and is doing respectable damage for a level 1 ability with great range. only drawback is, once again, it targets fort... and there is other even more essential first level priest spells if you only got 1 priest in your party.  shining beacon is also kinda keen as it lowers fort (and everything else) by ten while targeting will.  but again, chances are good you missed shining beacon in favor o' devotions or triumph or whatnot.

- 10 all defenses also stacks with specific debuffs like -25 fortitude from the morning star modal, so those spells are doubly valuable.

 

One issue with priests, I think, is that so many of their key spells are concentrated into a few levels. Level 1 gets restore and suppress affliction and in addition, most subclasses free spell at level is quite good, like sun ray, touch of rot, arcane veil, etc. That makes it much harder to take and use something good, but less class defining, like halt, interdiction or barbs of condemnation. Level 4 is similar, with barring death’s door, devotions, triumph of the crusaders, circle of protection and shining beacon all on the same level and all of them are core aspects of the priest’s power. Level 7 then has minor avatar, cleansing flame and storm of holy fire, but multiclass priests only get 1 cast of a level 7 spell. Even for a single class priest, resurrection or shields for the faithful may look really good, but it’s hard to justify using one of your precious level 7 casts on one of them. By comparison, levels 2, 3 and 5 are much weaker.

 

It’s very important for players to need to make choices and it shouldn’t be possible to get everything you want. But the priest spell list still feels pretty unbalanced with a fair number of early weak powers and too many important spells competing for very limited resources at the same levels.

[Dorftek]

 

ps priestly 1st level barbs is also underutilized. am guessing lack o' use is in part 'cause o' its relative poe1 impotence. the -5 to all defenses effect is more significant in poe2 than were the case in poe 1 and is doing respectable damage for a level 1 ability with great range. only drawback is, once again, it targets fort... and there is other even more essential first level priest spells if you only got 1 priest in your party. shining beacon is also kinda keen as it lowers fort (and everything else) by ten while targeting will. but again, chances are good you missed shining beacon in favor o' devotions or triumph or whatnot.

- 10 all defenses also stacks with specific debuffs like -25 fortitude from the morning star modal, so those spells are doubly valuable.

 

One issue with priests, I think, is that so many of their key spells are concentrated into a few levels. Level 1 gets restore and suppress affliction and in addition, most subclasses free spell at level is quite good, like sun ray, touch of rot, arcane veil, etc. That makes it much harder to take and use something good, but less class defining, like halt, interdiction or barbs of condemnation. Level 4 is similar, with barring death’s door, devotions, triumph of the crusaders, circle of protection and shining beacon all on the same level and all of them are core aspects of the priest’s power. Level 7 then has minor avatar, cleansing flame and storm of holy fire, but multiclass priests only get 1 cast of a level 7 spell. Even for a single class priest, resurrection or shields for the faithful may look really good, but it’s hard to justify using one of your precious level 7 casts on one of them. By comparison, levels 2, 3 and 5 are much weaker.

 

It’s very important for players to need to make choices and it shouldn’t be possible to get everything you want. But the priest spell list still feels pretty unbalanced with a fair number of early weak powers and too many important spells competing for very limited resources at the same levels.

So much this, spot on! I hate that about priests, they have a few power lvls where all the good stuff compete for the very limited casts. I wish obsidian would shuffle them around a bit.

[Boeroer]

Or introduce some stuff that adds some spells per encounter - like the wizard has (Grimoire of Vaporous Wizardry). There is one item that gives you +1 levl-1 priest spell. Yeah!

[Dorftek]

Isn't it +1 lvl2 spell? So we can cast another withdrawal?

[thundercleese]

Footprints of Ahu whatever grant +1 level 2 spell. Think there may be another similar item?

[Boeroer]

Maybe it was that. Can't remember so I suppose you are right.

[thundercleese]

There is always the Queens Berth inn bonus for +1 lvl1 spells.

[Dorftek]

Queens berth resting bonus vs incredible food is really not a choice.

 

+1 lvl 1 spell on boots would have been better then lvl 2 tbh.

[thundercleese]

Agreed. Just saying, if you desperately want to get +1 lvl1 spells, you can. Also outside of the Fampyr heavy spots and/or solo runs, incredible food isn't really necessary. But then, neither is +1 spells.

[Boeroer]

There is always the Queens Berth inn bonus for +1 lvl1 spells.

Ahhh - that's what I meant anyway. It just wasn't an item...

[pi2repsion]

The easiest way of reducing the fortitude of enemies that doesn't require specific weapons or use of limited spell slots is probably the chanter's T4 chant, that weakens (-5 con) all enemies in range and gives them -2 might at the significant opportunity cost of not having another chant active instead.

 

The only downside apart from the opportunity cost is that it is itself a fortitude roll to apply the effect, so it is more useful for passively reducing the fortitude of some of the enemies you face in larger encounters where you are slinging out fortitude AOEs than for reducing the fortitude of individual boss enemies with high fortitude.

[indika_tates]

The old & classical problem (since POE1) of every druid build that intends to do damage on POTD with spells that target fortitude. Cipher also suffer from this. The same approach to any kind of build that intends to use brute force as a barbarian.

 

- Debuffs of FT that targets FT: "Useful" against enemies with low to average fort. It's good to stack afflictions but it's not strictly necessary. I used it when I have spells to spare and you want to guarantee some crits with spells like plague of insects or infestation of maggots. Chanter Long's night is of this kind and it's quite useless when trying to use it against very high FT mobs.

 

- Debuffs of FT that targets WL. Arkemir Dazzling lights (-5 Mig), Interdiction, Ryngrim's terror, Secret Horrors. 

 

So you need a wizard and/or a cipher in your party if you want to mass debuff FT. Even with a wizard/cipher is not worth it in terms of resources/casting time because you can simply attack WIL (charms, frighten/terrify).

 

My conclusion is that is a waste of time trying to lower FT. Just kill this kind of mobs in melee or neutralize through WL. The pity is that there are awesome spells that are hard to land properly because most of the mobs have high FT. 

[heldred]

Agreed, the time spent debuffing fort and finding synergies in a party is kind of a waste of time, since you can just kill the mobs faster with a different approach, often with straight up melee damage.

[thundercleese]

What is the penalty from Morning Star modal? I assume action speed or accuracy penalty? If you're planning on using one anyway then that would be the "best", but even then the opportunity cost could be too great.

[grasida]

The old & classical problem (since POE1) of every druid build that intends to do damage on POTD with spells that target fortitude. Cipher also suffer from this. The same approach to any kind of build that intends to use brute force as a barbarian.

 

- Debuffs of FT that targets FT: "Useful" against enemies with low to average fort. It's good to stack afflictions but it's not strictly necessary. I used it when I have spells to spare and you want to guarantee some crits with spells like plague of insects or infestation of maggots. Chanter Long's night is of this kind and it's quite useless when trying to use it against very high FT mobs.

 

- Debuffs of FT that targets WL. Arkemir Dazzling lights (-5 Mig), Interdiction, Ryngrim's terror, Secret Horrors. 

 

So you need a wizard and/or a cipher in your party if you want to mass debuff FT. Even with a wizard/cipher is not worth it in terms of resources/casting time because you can simply attack WIL (charms, frighten/terrify).

 

My conclusion is that is a waste of time trying to lower FT. Just kill this kind of mobs in melee or neutralize through WL. The pity is that there are awesome spells that are hard to land properly because most of the mobs have high FT.

 

Wall of Thorns is probably an okay way to debuff fortitude on a druid. Even though it targets fortitude itself, it also hits incredibly fast, which makes it pretty likely that you’ll get through at least once. That then opens up enemies more to stuns from relentless storm, which debuffs fortitude even further.

 

That’s not to say fortitude saves aren’t generally too high across most enemies.

[Dorftek]

What is the penalty from Morning Star modal? I assume action speed or accuracy penalty? If you're planning on using one anyway then that would be the "best", but even then the opportunity cost could be too great.

It trades dmg for fort debuff.