Should I single or multiclass an Ascendant Cipher?

[Gunnaku]

So I'm on the fence on how to make an ascendant. I'm thinking between a single class Ascendant or a Transcendent(helwalker/ascendant). I need some help deciding and what others think and/or have tested. Pros and cons of what I have so far

 

ASCENDANT

Pros

-faster PL increase

-plus 3 PLs late game over a multiclass just by being single class

-access to PL8-9

Cons

-not sure a con but idk how good PL8-9 really are. Is it worthwhile?

-no monk. Let's face it, monks are great.

 

TRANSCENDENT

Pros

-helwalkers get +10 might and intelligence w/ max wounds. Nothing to scoff at.

-can quickly ascend due to multiclassing with a martial class.

-swift strikes is a nice speed boost and granted at level 1.

-you punch their face while obliterating their soul. Super flavorful.

-you're a transcendent ascendant. Twice the ascendance in one character! Not really a pro I just find it slightly humorous saying transcendent ascendant.

 

Cons

-you gain new spells slower.

-your spells are overall weaker due to reduced PL

-can't access PL8-9. Again still on the fence w/ this since idk how good they really are. If they're good it's a con if they're bad it's just meh.

-helwalkers are REALLY squishy.

 

So I think that's basically it? Idk I'm at work atm and just trying to type this up quickly. Hoping for others input on what they think the pros and cons are and what they suggest and/or how they would build. If you've tried it out please share your input and experience.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Gunnaku

[Theosupus]

Pro of single build:

Everyone of my min/max builds have monk or rogue in them.  I'm sick of monks and rogues. Let's do something else

More Power!

 

Con of single build:

 

You always have a few levels (sometimes more) where you feel like you are wasting ability points on things you don't use/need.

Pro of multi-class:

Better overall performance

Con of multi-class:

End up roflstomping everything.
 

[lameover]

Don't forget that Ascendant Cipher get +3 PL to their spells when Ascended. So you literally compensate your lower PL when ascended.

[Oriz]

I found ascendant and ranger go well together to reach ascended status very quickly (especially using frostseeker on aoe packs) but haven't ever used single class to say if the extra PL is worth taking longer to get ascended.

[1TTFFSSE]

Single class Ascendant downside #1 is that you are slow to get to full focus without full-attacks from other martial classes.

 

You mitigate that con by using Thunderous Report from Kitchen Stove blunderbuss or The Red Hand Arquebus which fires two shots per attack.

 

Still though with a rogue or a monk you could and would hit max focus fast more consistently. 

 

Definitely pump your perception as high as you can (like 22-24 lol) if you go single class as also having no full attacks (which usually come with bonus accuracy and damage) means perception and accuracy is even more important.

 

Otherwise there are no noticeable cons to pure ascendant except as a single class it may feel a bit boring to play. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by 1TTFFSSE

[mant2si]

Single class Ascendant downside #1 is that you are slow to get to full focus without full-attacks from other martial classes.

 

You mitigate that con by using Thunderous Report from Kitchen Stove blunderbuss or The Red Hand Arquebus which fires two shots per attack.

 

Still though with a rogue or a monk you could and would hit max focus fast more consistently. 

 

Definitely pump your perception as high as you can (like 22-24 lol) if you go single class as also having no full attacks (which usually come with bonus accuracy and damage) means perception and accuracy is even more important.

 

Otherwise there are no noticeable cons to pure ascendant except as a single class it may feel a bit boring to play. 

Without DD I just stack deflection and take WotEP, of-course with full attack this combination will work even better, but WotEP has AOE skills which will fill you focus + WotEP retaliation reduce enemies fortitude and increase your focus

 

Then you can use Time parasite + Eye Strike + Death of 1000 cuts and watch how enemies dies

 

There also exist boots that Give you Charge with Full Attack which also works very well with 2DW  

Edited July 30, 2018 by mant2si

[Clerith]

Honestly, I like single-class Ascendant for the same reason I like single-class Wizards, even if their high tier stuff is a lot weaker. You get access to the good stuff much earlier, you're a god in Ascended state, your goal is to reach Ascended asap, and you when you do, you just spam Cipher spells. I don't know, I just have a hard time multiclassing this subclass.

 

I also highly recommend the Red Hand for your Ascendant. 

[Ophiuchus]

Honestly, I like single-class Ascendant for the same reason I like single-class Wizards, even if their high tier stuff is a lot weaker. You get access to the good stuff much earlier, you're a god in Ascended state, your goal is to reach Ascended asap, and you when you do, you just spam Cipher spells. I don't know, I just have a hard time multiclassing this subclass.

 

I also highly recommend the Red Hand for your Ascendant. 

Getting the new Ancestor's Memory earlier would be a fair reason to go single class Ascendant.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Ophiuchus

[M4xw0lf]

Helwalker/Ascendant is a different level of squishy, I don't think I'd enjoy struggling to stay alive all the time.

[Haplok]

I'm currently playing a Transcendent. It's a really nice multiclass. The Helwalker Might boost is great for the damage spells and the massive Int bonus is awesome for buff/debuff durations (including Ascension), as well as effect aoes.

That said, if I was starting again, I probably would have gone pure Ascendant.

I feel the Monk wasn't really pulling his weight prior to level 10 (when he got both Duality of Mortal Presence and Stunning Blow - one level earlier). Till that point I'd rather have the earlier access to stronger powers. My character is now level 11 and if he were pure, he'd already start melting enemies with Disintegration (with accuracy boosted by Borrowed Instinct). As it is, I have to wait till level 16, which feels like eternity (and wait till 13 for Borrowed Instinct). And I will never experience the awesomeness of Time Parasite speed or the horror of Death of 1000 cuts while spamming mind blades and shredding the enemy every second with Ectopsychic Echo.

 

The decision would be more difficult if there were less awesome weapons. But there are some ranged weapons that will fill the focus of even single-class Cipher quite rapidly. Particularly the already mentioned Red Hand and Kitchen Stove Thunderous Report (the latter just once per encounter, but it's nice to instantly max the focus while seriously damaging and dazing a large mob).

[Gunnaku]

I'm currently playing a Transcendent. It's a really nice multiclass. The Helwalker Might boost is great for the damage spells and the massive Int bonus is awesome for buff/debuff durations (including Ascension), as well as effect aoes.

That said, if I was starting again, I probably would have gone pure Ascendant.

I feel the Monk wasn't really pulling his weight prior to level 10 (when he got both Duality of Mortal Presence and Stunning Blow - one level earlier). Till that point I'd rather have the earlier access to stronger powers. My character is now level 11 and if he were pure, he'd already start melting enemies with Disintegration (with accuracy boosted by Borrowed Instinct). As it is, I have to wait till level 16, which feels like eternity (and wait till 13 for Borrowed Instinct). And I will never experience the awesomeness of Time Parasite speed or the horror of Death of 1000 cuts while spamming mind blades and shredding the enemy every second with Ectopsychic Echo.

 

The decision would be more difficult if there were less awesome weapons. But there are some ranged weapons that will fill the focus of even single-class Cipher quite rapidly. Particularly the already mentioned Red Hand and Kitchen Stove Thunderous Report (the latter just once per encounter, but it's nice to instantly max the focus while seriously damaging and dazing a large mob).

I think this just pretty much summer it up, thanks! I've tested a single class ascended and like it and never had any issues reaching ascended on Potd. Once you lose ascended and have to reach it again was also a non issue. It's honestly so easy to hit ascended with the right weapons, even as a single class cipher. I was wondering if there was any multiclass combo that enhances your abilities while ascended (which is why I looked at monk and all the buffs) and are those buffs worth the lose of the 3 power levels you lose by not being single class? From what I'm reading so far and especially your reply I should just stick to single class. Thanks for the info. Much appreciated!

[1TTFFSSE]

The only classes worth it to multiclass if you are powergaming is either rogue streetfighter for the recovery speed bonus after hitting with a target with powder burns from your blunderbuss or berserker for constant attack speed and penetration boost from frenzy. They are better than the monk build imo, which comes out slower, and especially with the rogue you will feel more powerful before level 12 but after level 12 single class gets level 6 cipher powers early so at that point it is the same.

 

At level cap though I think a witch serker/ascendant would be very great because you use frenzy instead of time parasite for your attack speed buff, and thanks to barbarian blood thirst you negate recovery completely after a kill, and with aoe spells like amp wave that is easy to do, and as a bonus under spirit frenzy all your spammable aoe spells also stagger the foes in addition to their normal effects.  

 

Note: this is if your making a ranged class cannon, in melee definitely barbarian and paladin are good multi class options. 

Edited July 31, 2018 by 1TTFFSSE

[Gunnaku]

The only classes worth it to multiclass if you are powergaming is either rogue streetfighter for the recovery speed bonus after hitting with a target with powder burns from your blunderbuss or berserker for constant attack speed and penetration boost from frenzy. They are better than the monk build imo, which comes out slower, and especially with the rogue you will feel more powerful before level 12 but after level 12 single class gets level 6 cipher powers early so at that point it is the same.

 

At level cap though I think a witch serker/ascendant would be very great because you use frenzy instead of time parasite for your attack speed buff, and thanks to barbarian blood thirst you negate recovery completely after a kill, and with aoe spells like amp wave that is easy to do, and as a bonus under spirit frenzy all your spammable aoe spells also stagger the foes in addition to their normal effects.

 

Note: this is if your making a ranged class cannon, in melee definitely barbarian and paladin are good multi class options.

I was looking into barb also. Does blood lust (action speed on kill) and blood thirst (zero recovery on kill) both work with spells? If so that's huge benefit.

[1TTFFSSE]

 

The only classes worth it to multiclass if you are powergaming is either rogue streetfighter for the recovery speed bonus after hitting with a target with powder burns from your blunderbuss or berserker for constant attack speed and penetration boost from frenzy. They are better than the monk build imo, which comes out slower, and especially with the rogue you will feel more powerful before level 12 but after level 12 single class gets level 6 cipher powers early so at that point it is the same.

 

At level cap though I think a witch serker/ascendant would be very great because you use frenzy instead of time parasite for your attack speed buff, and thanks to barbarian blood thirst you negate recovery completely after a kill, and with aoe spells like amp wave that is easy to do, and as a bonus under spirit frenzy all your spammable aoe spells also stagger the foes in addition to their normal effects.

 

Note: this is if your making a ranged class cannon, in melee definitely barbarian and paladin are good multi class options.

I was looking into barb also. Does blood lust (action speed on kill) and blood thirst (zero recovery on kill) both work with spells? If so that's huge benefit.

 

yeah thry are "on kill" does not matter how you kill the target. 

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

I'd suggest red hand / quarterstaff single class ascendant. It's just *fun* and the quarterstaff gives you reach, crushing damage, and a good defensive modal. 

 

After the last patch there are enough worthwhile upper tier cipher abilities that I think it's worth it going "pure." 

 

I think with multiclass ciphers you want to go soul blade or beguiler depending.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[Haplok]

The only classes worth it to multiclass if you are powergaming is either rogue streetfighter for the recovery speed bonus after hitting with a target with powder burns from your blunderbuss or berserker for constant attack speed and penetration boost from frenzy. They are better than the monk build imo, which comes out slower, and especially with the rogue you will feel more powerful before level 12 but after level 12 single class gets level 6 cipher powers early so at that point it is the same.

 

At level cap though I think a witch serker/ascendant would be very great because you use frenzy instead of time parasite for your attack speed buff, and thanks to barbarian blood thirst you negate recovery completely after a kill, and with aoe spells like amp wave that is easy to do, and as a bonus under spirit frenzy all your spammable aoe spells also stagger the foes in addition to their normal effects.  

 

Note: this is if your making a ranged class cannon, in melee definitely barbarian and paladin are good multi class options. 

 

Monk is slower, yes. But particularly Helwalker massively boosts the Cipher powers as well (at the cost of extra squishiness). Streetfighter on the other hand sure, is very powerful. But the rogue abilities will overshadow the Cipher damage abilities IMO. Better to go SoulBlade or Beguiler in that case IMO. Plus the durations will be kinda short, Accuracy will be poor. Powder Burns constantly running out... it's a hassle. Been there, done that (admittedly at a rather low level only).

Sure, it can be done... and it's fast. But the synergy with an Ascendant isn't the greatest IMO.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Haplok