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Rogue Abilities & Explosives skill

Rogue Balance Abilities Bombes

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#1
Takkik

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There is a few abilities that bother me in the rogue tree and I would like to know if some people find them some uses : Smoke cloud & upgrades, Positioning, Ring the bell, Shadow Step & Flurry of blades.

 

Smoke cloud feel costy for applying Distracted when you can get persitant distraction. If you need a panic button, just better to use invisibility (that you must take). Applying Blind could be more interesting (alternative to blinding strike and in AOE). Smoke grenade upgrade make the ability a persistant AOE.

Another option, make smoke cloud a persistant AOE that distract & Hobble. People stuck inside the cloud have hard time to get out of it. Give you more CC. The dot upgrade add a DMG effect to the AOE.

 

Positioning : An inferior version of Escape that you unlock at PL7... As far I love my rogue to have more low cost abilities, I find this ability just uninteresting.

You could add a self buff to it (Rogue have none outside of PL 8 and it's a PL 7 ability!), if you switch with an ally you buff him too, with an enemy you debuff it.

 

Ring the bell : I find Pierce the bell fine (2 guiles for +45% dmg & +5PEN with ranged weapons), but the one handed melee lack luster. It's stuck between crippling strike (1guile) and Toxic strike (3guiles) that apply a more potent DOT. Just better to spam 2 crippling strikes or use one more guile and do more dmg?

 

Withering Strike : for a 3 guiles cost, I would boost the DMG to 40-50% or make the ACC bonus +20. The description say you strike a vital point, you could expect more chance to critic or more dmg. BEfore the up of all other rogue attacks, withering strike was the only ability with a dmg boost.

 

Shadow step : I don't see lot of people talking about it (or using it?). 3 cost to paralyse a target for 6sec? It's very situationnal. And flurry of blades is the ability that do lot of things (teleportation, buff, paralyse, aoe dmg) but nothing well?

I would just kill to get a separate flurry of blades ability that work like a buffed ghost blades at PL 7. Or make flurry of blades the first upgrade (you unleash an AOE ring of dagger before teleporting, with the hobbled effect) and the last upgrade (at PL8) Paralyse enemies hit by the daggers. For a PL8 ability at least you do an AOE paralyse.

 

 

 

About the bombes, I just wonder why obsidian created a specific skill. Compared to alchemy & arcana bombes offer less options. thematic wise the bombes feel at home with the rogue, I just wonder why they didn't use mechanic or sleight of hand to handle the bombe. The thief archetype is taxed with 3 out of combat skills, why not give them some combat use?

 

Same with stealth, only usefull at the start of the combat and some scripted events just block you from using this skill. Why not, like athletic, give a 1 per encounter hidding ability that allow you to restealth in middle of the combat?



#2
Boeroer

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I agree on everything except Ring the Bell+ with one handed weapons. Because that stacks its DoT just fine with Arterial Strike's, Gouging Strike's and Toxic Strike's DoT. Two times Gouging Strike for example doesn't work because t)the DoT won't stack.

#3
knownastherat

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I wonder why Traps, as an offensive tool, are .. how to say this in a civilized way .. slightly sub-optimal to basically everything? Because Josh did not like the cheesy abuse of traps in BG2. Oh ok, fair enough. 



#4
Takkik

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For ring of the bell it was more a question (I didn't offered any alternative). I haven't used it much because it don't appeal to me, crippling strike + toxic strike isn't enough? (+deep wound, + any weapon that add dot + any other dot effect like a poison consumable, combusting wound etc...). It feel like just another dot ability but without an identity (and perhaps don't fit "Ring the Bell" theme). It don't stand out from all rogue attacks.

 

I think I would just prefere if it was Pierce the ring for all weapons, the armor piercing & high DMG ability. But it's just my personnal opinion, if other people use it it's fine.

Edit : or make the ability a modal that allow you to switch between applying a raw dot, a bonus on PEN & DMG or applying a debuff.

 

EDIT: for Traps, they could fit with bombes as combat consumable, but with a 'long' casting time and short throw range. But with ability to place them while stealthed or invisible.

 

A character with stealth and the new hidding ability, could restealth in battle, place a trap and then attack from behing it to lure an enemy in the trap.


Edited by Takkik, 27 July 2018 - 09:31 AM.


#5
Verde

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Aren't Withering Strike's upgrades substantial?

Shadow Step is pretty powerful. 3 is a bit much but it could easily be abused.

Edited by Verde, 27 July 2018 - 09:29 AM.


#6
Takkik

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Aren't Withering Strike's upgrades substantial?

Shadow Step is pretty powerful. 3 is a bit much but it could easily be abused.

 

Before 1.1 I don't think withering strike was an op ability, but when they added +25dmg to all rogue abilities, the gap between withering strike and other abilities got smaller (and cost is still the same). A just think the ability could get a little buff (dmg or ACC).

 

I'll be happy to heard about shadow step uses. Like they are I find the 2 first upgrades to costly too, 2 guiles could be better. Shadowing beyond could get a short invisibility (3 sec only, it's really teleport and strike immedialty) and veil a 8-10 sec invisibility (the two could have the same cost). smoke cloud, could be a veil upgrade like the tree suggest it, you become invisible and leave a smoke cloud behind you.



#7
Boeroer

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Toxic Strike is very good with decent INT. Every tick (3 sec) increases the dmg by 10 points if I remember correctly. Like 6, 16, 26, 36 and so on. It's especially good with AoE weapons like rod+Blast.

#8
gkathellar

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I wonder why Traps, as an offensive tool, are .. how to say this in a civilized way .. slightly sub-optimal to basically everything? Because Josh did not like the cheesy abuse of traps in BG2. Oh ok, fair enough. 

 

The funny thing about that is how PoE's traps don't work anything like BG2's, taking far more notes from NWN1 (where, incidentally, they're fine).


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#9
knownastherat

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So in NWN1 they were just junk to sell? I would not mind it really IF there was not a mechanic in place pretending they are something else. Remove the option to set traps and nothing will change. I guess what is funny and whatnot is subjective. 



#10
Rheios

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In POE 1 I tended to at least find a few places to use them - a bridge here that I knew I could kite a group through, the stairs of a lord I knew I was about to tick off, before a huge dungeon end boss I knew was coming and was going to try and kite him (ended up ending up getting used on his adds but it helped). Minor places but kindof nice when they were hit right (although so vastly limited in number that high level the number of useful traps was small). 

In Deadfire most of the fights don't tend to be helped as much at prep-time comparatively and the places I'd really like to use them - ship to ship combat as a nasty 'on-boarding suprise' - aren't an option. Actually the fact that you always end the fight on the top deck, and never go below to sometimes find captives or fight the captain or what not, or get pushed back during a raid to a well trapped corridor or something, is a little disappointing. But they might improve that still.


Edited by Rheios, 27 July 2018 - 03:45 PM.


#11
uuuhhii

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never understand why there are 4 skills(Sleight of Hand Stealth Mechanics Explosives)

condense into 2 will be fine

passives are even worse



#12
gkathellar

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So in NWN1 they were just junk to sell?

 

Nah, I mean they're similar in the UI sense, in that you place bright green polygons on the field and they go off if enemies step on them. It was a functional approach, generally balanced by making them unsalable and making traps actually worth a damn.



#13
Boeroer

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Don't they still induce injuries in Deadfire, some even major ones?

That wouldn't be useless at all compared to PoE1 where they were really near useless except some high level ones (petrify) and besides getting money. It's a never-ending debuff after all. Enemies don't rest. ;) I wonder if they also die if they get more than 3 injuries. You just need 4 guys with traps to test that...

Too bad classes like ranger or rogue don't have abilities that somehow improve traps.

#14
knownastherat

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I do not think triggered traps inflict injuries on enemies, at least I have not found a trap that does.



#15
Boeroer

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Ah, ok. They used to in the beta.



#16
Ilxuss

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I'm pretty sure that traps existing in the world do deal injuries if you manage to lure an enemy into them but if you pick the trap up it loses it.



#17
wanderon

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I've never figured out how to even set traps in this game which is probably a combination of apathy and a general distaste for their cheesy use in BG - are they currently workable in Deadfire?

 

It would be nice to be able to use them by setting under stealth in an active area (like a certain adra warehouse) . ;)



#18
gkathellar

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I've never figured out how to even set traps in this game which is probably a combination of apathy and a general distaste for their cheesy use in BG - are they currently workable in Deadfire?

 

It would be nice to be able to use them by setting under stealth in an active area (like a certain adra warehouse) . ;)

 

They're workable-ish, but you can only have one on the field at a time, and they don't do nearly enough damage to justify that. Not worth bothering with after Port Maje, if there.



#19
wanderon

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I've never figured out how to even set traps in this game which is probably a combination of apathy and a general distaste for their cheesy use in BG - are they currently workable in Deadfire?

 

It would be nice to be able to use them by setting under stealth in an active area (like a certain adra warehouse) . ;)

 

They're workable-ish, but you can only have one on the field at a time, and they don't do nearly enough damage to justify that. Not worth bothering with after Port Maje, if there.

 

 

That's too bad maybe they will tweak them before it's over.



#20
gkathellar

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I've never figured out how to even set traps in this game which is probably a combination of apathy and a general distaste for their cheesy use in BG - are they currently workable in Deadfire?

 

It would be nice to be able to use them by setting under stealth in an active area (like a certain adra warehouse) . ;)

 

They're workable-ish, but you can only have one on the field at a time, and they don't do nearly enough damage to justify that. Not worth bothering with after Port Maje, if there.

 

 

That's too bad maybe they will tweak them before it's over.

 

Yeah, I agree - at this point, pre-combat prep is mostly just "take some drugs." It's a shame.

 

knownastherat's point that you're generally just going to sell them is also valid - most traps have a pretty decent sale price, so the irony is that the point in the game where you're most likely to get some mileage out of them (early) is also the point where you might be hurting for cash and will want to sell them for a bit of other junk.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Rogue, Balance, Abilities, Bombes

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