[Tentative] Melee Witch for a Pro-Principi Character

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Hey guys, 

 

So - I know that with 2.0 coming next week, a lot of builds might get turned on their heads, with certain things either getting buffed or massively nerfed, but I wanted to do a sort of "for the moment" build for a melee Witch for my pro-Principi playthrough (My "PPP" as it were). I'll keep things pretty simple, and return to this more completely once 2.0 comes out and I've more of an idea of where things stand. 

 

Class: Berserker/Ascendant 

 

Race: Human or Godlike (Fire/Nature/Death): It's really up to your discretion here. My stats assume Human, but you can get away with anything, really.

 

Culture: Old Vallia, Aristocrat (For conversational skills/extra dialogue, and fitting a Principi character. Deadfire background also works, though that's more Huana-based).

 

Skills: Alchemy (Active)/Insight and Intimidate (Passives) - Alchemy for potions/poisons, Insight for dialogue checks, Intimidate for dialogue checks. I might bump Metaphysics as well. 

 

Stats: 

 

Might: 20 (15 Base +1 Human +1 GotM +2 Berath's Blessing +1 Permanent Stat Boost) 

Con: 10 (6 Base +1 Effigy's Resentment (Durance) +1 Chameleon's Touch +2 Berath's Blessing)

Dexterity: 18 (16 Base +2 Berath's Blessing) 

Perception: 21 (18 Base +2 Berath's Blessing +1 Chameleon's Touch)

Intellect: 20 (17 Base +1 Old Vallia +2 Berath's Blessing)

Resolve: 6 (3 Base +1 Human +2 Berath's Blessing) 

 

Constitution's a little bit higher for more HP, which allows for a little less concern when fighting in melee with the extra Raw damage and hidden HP of the Berserker. High Perception, Intellect, and Dexterity for Accuracy, ability duration, and Action Speed.

 

Abilities:

 

Level 1 - Frenzy/Tenuous Grasp

Level 2 - Blooded
Level 3 - Iron Will
Level 4 - Barbaric Blow/Draining Whip
Level 5 - Two Weapon Style
Level 6 - Recall Agony
Level 7 - Psychovampiric Shield/One Stands Alone
Level 8 - Hammering Thoughts
Level 9 - Bloodlust
Level 10 - Spirit Frenzy/Greater Focus

Level 11 - Bear's Fortitude
Level 12 - Unflinching
Level 13 - Barbaric Smash/Borrowed Instinct
Level 14 - Keen Mind
Level 15 - Tough
Level 16 - Disintegration/Brute Force
Level 17 - Interrupting Blows
Level 18 - Improved Critical
Level 19 - Ancestor's Honor/Blood Thirst
Level 20 - Spirit Tornado

 

These ability choices aren't set in stone. I went for spells with mostly low cast-time for better use in combat, and mostly Shreds to make use of the -5 cost. I've considered picking up Sprint > Lion's Sprint. 

 

Equipment: 

 

TBD 

 

I don't want to go back through all of the equipment again to pick stuff again. Feedback on stats/ability choices is moreso what I'm after. I think this could be quite a fun class, with a surprisingly unique synergy from an RP context. 

 

Keep in mind that everything here is subject to change come 2.0, and I do hope we get the Patch Notes for that early so we know what to expect next week. 

 

Edit: Went up to 20 Might and down to 10 Con. 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Cyrus_Blackfeather

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

I might take Whispers of Treason instead of Tenuous Grasp. 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Cyrus_Blackfeather

[M4xw0lf]

Always take Whisper of treason.

For melee Witch I don't see much point in taking Cipher talents/spells apart from the level ups where you have to, it lets you cover the talents that benefit the melee aspect of soulblade, like hammering thoughts, draining whip, and more focus to start with. If you want to do some spell damage, Ascendant would be better I guess.

Edited July 27, 2018 by M4xw0lf

[Haplok]

I might take Whispers of Treason instead of Tenuous Grasp. 

Tenuous Grasp is a nice, cheap and fast primer (-20 Will) for many great powers that you... uh... don't plan to pick.

Of course it also lowers Deflection by 5.

Edited July 27, 2018 by Haplok

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

 

I might take Whispers of Treason instead of Tenuous Grasp. 

Tenuous Grasp is a nice, cheap and fast primer (-20 Will) for many great powers that you... uh... don't plan to pick.

Of course it also lowers Deflection by 5.

 

 

Haha, yeah...

 

 

Always take Whisper of treason.

For melee Witch I don't see much point in taking Cipher talents/spells apart from the level ups where you have to, it lets you cover the talents that benefit the melee aspect of soulblade, like hammering thoughts, draining whip, and more focus to start with. If you want to do some spell damage, Ascendant would be better I guess.

 

Alright, I'll keep that in mind. I suppose I was still in "Hey, this looks cool," mode. 

[eschu101]

Is Soul anihiliation still worth it? i tought they nerfed it a lot...What about a Berserker/Ascendant, using frenzy/bloodlust with draining with to fill focus and then spam Amplified Wave?

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Is Soul anihiliation still worth it? i tought they nerfed it a lot...What about a Berserker/Ascendant, using frenzy/bloodlust with draining with to fill focus and then spam Amplified Wave?

Did they? I know they changed it to 1 Focus = 0.5 damage. Ascendant might be a better choice, especially since Soul Whip sticks with you into the Ascended state... Hmm. 

[1TTFFSSE]

Any Zerker/spellcaster build becomes really amazing once you get to level 18 or so and get Blood Thirst to eliminate recovery between nukes. I mean before it is still very good with Frenzy and all but getting that passive is a game changer.

Before that passive rogue passives like streetfighter recovery/sneak attack own for damage dealers, but getting blood thirst put barbs on a different plain potentially when you can start to just ignore recovery. 

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Any Zerker/spellcaster build becomes really amazing once you get to level 18 or so and get Blood Thirst to eliminate recovery between nukes. I mean before it is still very good with Frenzy and all but getting that passive is a game changer.

Before that passive rogue passives like streetfighter recovery/sneak attack own for damage dealers, but getting blood thirst put barbs on a different plain potentially when you can start to just ignore recovery. 

 

Alright. So would you recommend Soulblade (And just ignore spells) or Ascendant (And take some CC/Direct Damage spells?)

[1TTFFSSE]

 

Any Zerker/spellcaster build becomes really amazing once you get to level 18 or so and get Blood Thirst to eliminate recovery between nukes. I mean before it is still very good with Frenzy and all but getting that passive is a game changer.

Before that passive rogue passives like streetfighter recovery/sneak attack own for damage dealers, but getting blood thirst put barbs on a different plain potentially when you can start to just ignore recovery. 

 

Alright. So would you recommend Soulblade (And just ignore spells) or Ascendant (And take some CC/Direct Damage spells?)

 

Endgame because of norecovery+ascendant aoe nukes ascendant barb will deal more damage. Soul annihilation can't compete with machine gun aoe amplified waves. 

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

 

 

Any Zerker/spellcaster build becomes really amazing once you get to level 18 or so and get Blood Thirst to eliminate recovery between nukes. I mean before it is still very good with Frenzy and all but getting that passive is a game changer.

Before that passive rogue passives like streetfighter recovery/sneak attack own for damage dealers, but getting blood thirst put barbs on a different plain potentially when you can start to just ignore recovery. 

 

Alright. So would you recommend Soulblade (And just ignore spells) or Ascendant (And take some CC/Direct Damage spells?)

 

Endgame because of norecovery+ascendant aoe nukes ascendant barb will deal more damage. Soul annihilation can't compete with machine gun aoe amplified waves. 

 

 

Fair 'nuff! Ascendant it is. 

[Vitalis]

 

 

 

Any Zerker/spellcaster build becomes really amazing once you get to level 18 or so and get Blood Thirst to eliminate recovery between nukes. I mean before it is still very good with Frenzy and all but getting that passive is a game changer.

Before that passive rogue passives like streetfighter recovery/sneak attack own for damage dealers, but getting blood thirst put barbs on a different plain potentially when you can start to just ignore recovery.

Alright. So would you recommend Soulblade (And just ignore spells) or Ascendant (And take some CC/Direct Damage spells?)

Endgame because of norecovery+ascendant aoe nukes ascendant barb will deal more damage. Soul annihilation can't compete with machine gun aoe amplified waves.

Fair 'nuff! Ascendant it is.

I made a thread back during launch about a Witch build, I was hoping to get help with turning it into a build, but I suppose I can offer what I knew then (1.1).

 

Soul annihilation does good damage, but it is hindered by not being a full attack, so there's no benefit from using two weapons. The only full attack you have is barbaric blow, which you are taking. I had tested the build with both Ascendant and Soul Blade on PoTD back during 1.1, I was unimpressed with Ascendant as most fights tended to be over before I managed to get to the ascended status.

 

For race I chose Fire Godlike for the extra damage as your health gets low, although I'm not sure it makes a huge difference.

 

There is a Barbarian PL 2 talent called Toughen Up(?), which boosts your defence, that I would recommend. I would also recommend getting the Bloody Links armor from Fort Deadlight which further boosts your defense when you become Bloodied. While Beserker does hide your health, there is a way to approximate where your health is with the Blooded talent, which also causes you to do more damage while bloodied, which is also why you want more defense to survive in that state longer.

 

The real challenge would be nullifying the berserkers confusion so you don't murder your party with your aoes. If you choose Bloody Links as your armor you have Modwyr, party buffs, and consumables as an option.

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

 

 

 

 

Any Zerker/spellcaster build becomes really amazing once you get to level 18 or so and get Blood Thirst to eliminate recovery between nukes. I mean before it is still very good with Frenzy and all but getting that passive is a game changer.

Before that passive rogue passives like streetfighter recovery/sneak attack own for damage dealers, but getting blood thirst put barbs on a different plain potentially when you can start to just ignore recovery.

Alright. So would you recommend Soulblade (And just ignore spells) or Ascendant (And take some CC/Direct Damage spells?)

Endgame because of norecovery+ascendant aoe nukes ascendant barb will deal more damage. Soul annihilation can't compete with machine gun aoe amplified waves.

Fair 'nuff! Ascendant it is.

I made a thread back during launch about a Witch build, I was hoping to get help with turning it into a build, but I suppose I can offer what I knew then (1.1).

 

Soul annihilation does good damage, but it is hindered by not being a full attack, so there's no benefit from using two weapons. The only full attack you have is barbaric blow, which you are taking. I had tested the build with both Ascendant and Soul Blade on PoTD back during 1.1, I was unimpressed with Ascendant as most fights tended to be over before I managed to get to the ascended status.

 

For race I chose Fire Godlike for the extra damage as your health gets low, although I'm not sure it makes a huge difference.

 

There is a Barbarian PL 2 talent called Toughen Up(?), which boosts your defence, that I would recommend. I would also recommend getting the Bloody Links armor from Fort Deadlight which further boosts your defense when you become Bloodied. While Beserker does hide your health, there is a way to approximate where your health is with the Blooded talent, which also causes you to do more damage while bloodied, which is also why you want more defense to survive in that state longer.

 

The real challenge would be nullifying the berserkers confusion so you don't murder your party with your aoes. If you choose Bloody Links as your armor you have Modwyr, party buffs, and consumables as an option.

 

 

Bloody Links is a good piece of gear, I checked with the Deadfire speed calculator and it's only a few tenths of a second slower than something like Miscreant's Leathers. As for removing the Confusion effect, I was definitely thinking Modwyr for that, plus it's thematically appropriate for the kind of character I want to play, and has the extra lash damage and other good effects too. 

 

Thick Skin/Tough Skin is a good talent that I should definitely pick up. I should grab it instead of Recall Agony. 

 

Ascendant, as 1TTFFSSE says, really shines later on, with chain-casting Amplified Wave using Blood Thirst. Plus it means I don't have to take things like Keen Mind or Greater Focus, which frees up slots for other things. 

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Alright, had a go at the abilities again... 

 

Level 1 - Frenzy/Whispers of Treason

Level 2 - Blooded
Level 3 - Iron Will
Level 4 - Barbaric Blow/Draining Whip
Level 5 - Two Weapon Style
Level 6 - Thick Skin
Level 7 - Psychovampiric Shield/One Stands Alone
Level 8 - Hammering Thoughts
Level 9 - Bloodlust
Level 10 - Spirit Frenzy/Penetrating Visions

Level 11 - Bear's Fortitude
Level 12 - Unflinching
Level 13 - Barbaric Smash/Borrowed Instinct
Level 14 - Rapid Casting
Level 15 - Tough
Level 16 - Amplified Wave/Brute Force
Level 17 - Interrupting Blows
Level 18 - Improved Critical
Level 19 - Ancestor's Honor/Blood Thirst
Level 20 - Spirit Tornado

 

I might not take Penetrating Visions, because honestly I only have one damage dealing Cipher power, and I think Amplified Wave gets pretty good Penetration on its own. 

 

Otherwise, I'm not sure. I'd like something that has more Cipher powers to it, but there's really not a good way to do that without losing out on a lot of good Barbarian passives. The cool thing though is that Spirit Frenzy/Spirit Tornado IS sort of a Barbarian/Cipher power in terms of flavor, so that's neat. 

 

Oh, I'll also be using the Upright Captain's Belt for free Concentration, I think. Alternatively, should I take Combat Focus instead? 

Edited July 28, 2018 by Cyrus_Blackfeather

[M4xw0lf]

Alright, had a go at the abilities again... 

 

Level 1 - Frenzy/Whispers of Treason

Level 2 - Blooded

Level 3 - Iron Will

Level 4 - Barbaric Blow/Draining Whip

Level 5 - Two Weapon Style

Level 6 - Thick Skin

Level 7 - Psychovampiric Shield/One Stands Alone

Level 8 - Hammering Thoughts

Level 9 - Bloodlust

Level 10 - Spirit Frenzy/Penetrating Visions

Level 11 - Bear's Fortitude

Level 12 - Unflinching

Level 13 - Barbaric Smash/Borrowed Instinct

Level 14 - Rapid Casting

Level 15 - Tough

Level 16 - Amplified Wave/Brute Force

Level 17 - Interrupting Blows

Level 18 - Improved Critical

Level 19 - Ancestor's Honor/Blood Thirst

Level 20 - Spirit Tornado

 

I might not take Penetrating Visions, because honestly I only have one damage dealing Cipher power, and I think Amplified Wave gets pretty good Penetration on its own. 

 

Otherwise, I'm not sure. I'd like something that has more Cipher powers to it, but there's really not a good way to do that without losing out on a lot of good Barbarian passives. The cool thing though is that Spirit Frenzy/Spirit Tornado IS sort of a Barbarian/Cipher power in terms of flavor, so that's neat. 

 

Oh, I'll also be using the Upright Captain's Belt for free Concentration, I think. Alternatively, should I take Combat Focus instead? 

As long as I'm not bamboozled once more by Pillar's ruleset, Penetrating visions will do absolutely nothing for you, because most Cipher spells deal raw damage and don't bother with penetration anyways (apart from the fact that you won't use many damage spells anyways).

[Vitalis]

My nain issue with the stats (not yours) is that from a roleplay standpoint I always find it difficult to really dump Resolve, it's said to represent your force of personality, and it has the side benefit of increasing deflection.

 

However, with builds that rely on being bloodied, having a higher constitution would seem to make sense but its possible that it isn't. While I'm no genius with numbers, while having more health is good. It may not provide the same benefit as having 10 constitution. Bloodied is always going to begin around having half health, which is a danger regardless of your health level.

 

If you take Thick Skin and The Bloody Links, your defenses while bloodied should, theoretically, make it difficult to take a lot of damage. If combined with a high Resolve/Deflection you could then have a, potentially, higher chance of staying alive than with Constitution.

 

A balanced option would be to increase both Constitution and Resolve, but then you would need to drop another stat or not boost Dexterity or Might. With a casting class as a secondary, Intelligence can not be droppe; this then leaves either Dexterity or Might, with Might being more important overall.

[grasida]

Is Soul anihiliation still worth it? i tought they nerfed it a lot...What about a Berserker/Ascendant, using frenzy/bloodlust with draining with to fill focus and then spam Amplified Wave?

If you think of soul annihilation as like a melee passive that’s increasing your total damage dealt, it should still easily be one of the most powerful melee “passives” in the game if you build around it right. At very high might, attack speed and accuracy, it’s a very large total multiplier to damage dealt. But that’s not say it would be more damage than amplified wave spam on an ascended witch with blood thirst cancelling recovery. But is there any melee build that could compare with that?

 

I suspect helwalker/soul blade with sun and moon is the best choice to get the absolute most out of soul annihilation. You could build it to have solid deflection and other defenses, too, with tuotilo’s palm. I haven’t actually tried one, though.

[Verde]

Can Soul Annihilation crit or is it a simple 1 Focus = .05 Dmg ratio?

 

Thing is with Focus, you can easily amass a few hundred at higher levels.

[grasida]

Soul annihilation can crit, but it doesn’t influence the raw damage. Critting before you use it increases your focus, which increases your raw damage, though. Fun thing about soul annihilation, though — it interrupts on crit. With sun and moon, every attack can be soul annihilation. With borrowed instinct and tactical meld, as well as secret horrors or psychovampiric shield reducing deflection, that means you have two good chances to interrupt on every attack and you’re swinging a fast weapon.

 

Also soul annihilation base melee damage is multiplied by 5% per PL after one and the raw damage is (10 + focus/2)*might bonus* PL bonus. It adds up to a lot of extra damage, especially if you can make every attack soul annihilation.

 

You can charge up a bunch of focus and drop it all into one big soul annihilation, but that’s not very efficient, especially if you’re not so accurate you can’t miss. It’s better to try and use it as often as possible to avoid overkill and maximize its flat damage.

Edited July 28, 2018 by grasida

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

My nain issue with the stats (not yours) is that from a roleplay standpoint I always find it difficult to really dump Resolve, it's said to represent your force of personality, and it has the side benefit of increasing deflection.

 

However, with builds that rely on being bloodied, having a higher constitution would seem to make sense but its possible that it isn't. While I'm no genius with numbers, while having more health is good. It may not provide the same benefit as having 10 constitution. Bloodied is always going to begin around having half health, which is a danger regardless of your health level.

 

If you take Thick Skin and The Bloody Links, your defenses while bloodied should, theoretically, make it difficult to take a lot of damage. If combined with a high Resolve/Deflection you could then have a, potentially, higher chance of staying alive than with Constitution.

 

A balanced option would be to increase both Constitution and Resolve, but then you would need to drop another stat or not boost Dexterity or Might. With a casting class as a secondary, Intelligence can not be droppe; this then leaves either Dexterity or Might, with Might being more important overall.

 

Oh yes, definitely agreed... 

 

I hate dumping Resolve from a roleplay perspective. It's probably one of the most game-y things about character building in this game. Constitution is mitigated somewhat by both high base HP and the 10% bonus from sacrificing Durance to the Blood Pool and using the Engwithan Machine. I could dump DEX to boost Resolve without losing much, I think, because Action Speed, especially with things like Frenzy, Blood Thirst, Bloodlust, etc., kind of has diminishing returns after a while. Especially since I'll be using a pet to offset the Recovery Time from my armor. 

 

Edit: I could also dump Might, I think, to boost Resolve even further - because if I decide to go with Soul Blade, I don't think Might would affect that damage much either. It would also free up a slot - I wouldn't have to take Psychovampiric Shield. 

Edited July 28, 2018 by Cyrus_Blackfeather

[grasida]

Might is really important for soul blades, since it multiplies their raw damage on soul annihilation. I wouldn’t dump it if you take a soul blade. Dexterity and perception are really nice for them also. Which one is most valuable is extremely complicated and probably depends on play style.

[M4xw0lf]

Well, Might always affects damage, but I'd say you can make a decent Witch with 14-15 Might instead of 20.

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Might is really important for soul blades, since it multiplies their raw damage on soul annihilation. I wouldn’t dump it if you take a soul blade. Dexterity and perception are really nice for them also. Which one is most valuable is extremely complicated and probably depends on play style.

 

I was only going to bump it down to 10 (15 adjusted with the Blessing, Human bonus, and Gift of the Machine). So that's 15% extra damage as opposed to 30%, in addition to everything else. Dexterity is important too, but the difference between 12 and 18 Dexterity with Frenzy taken into account is 0.6 seconds, so I'm not sure how big of a deal that really is. 

 

I also don't really *have* to drop Might super low, since if I just drop Dex down to a flat 10, I can boost Resolve up to 12 (With the Blessing) and then shave a point off of Perception (11 Accuracy compared to 10 Accuracy isn't going to make or break anything) for 13 Resolve, and then drop Might down to 13 (18 with all of the boosts taken into account) for 15 Resolve. That cuts the Deflection penalty from Frenzy in half, while still giving me 24% bonus damage to my Soul Annihilation. 

 

Edit: Can someone tell me how much max Focus a Soul Blade ends with at level 20? 

Edited July 28, 2018 by Cyrus_Blackfeather

[Cyrus_Blackfeather]

Also, I've considered whether I'd be better served by going Berserker/Streetfighter too, or whether Barbarian is good enough on its own that it'd be worth it to just stick with Barbarian/Cipher for something new.