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misterjimmy

Josh:"The Watcher don't have particular reason to fight Eothas."

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Still, you can't deny that in Skyrim the gods have quests for you, some personal time with each god would have been cool for Deadfire. Maybe different ending options depending on which gods you did quests for. It seems like they streamlined the main quest as much as possible and compensated with groovy visuals and setpieces to make it more exciting. Can't really blame them, but I wish the main quest had felt more substantial

Wouldn’t this more or less be the same thing they did in P1? Do you honestly think they wouldn’t have gotten roasted for this?

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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Skyrim's a great game because of its setting, the exploration value, and the sheer freedom to do and add whatever the hell you please. It's not because of its great choices or story. TES has a pretty good overlapping storyline if some of the more believable theories are to be believed, but Skyrim isn't a good example for meaningful choices and quests unless the player adds to it himself.

 

The Pillars gods need your help, but don't really care about you beyond doing what you're supposed to be doing: in their view, they're gods so you should just do as they say and believe. It's how they're written and characterized all the time, even in PoE1: Do what they want or have a good explanation for doing things differently, and they reward you. Don't, and they either ignore you or mess up your life. As for the "divine councils" in Deadfire: why should they who are gods, listen to a puny watcher who should just do as he's told? It's frustrating as hell, sure, but definitely fits their characterization.

 

Galawain, Wael and Rymrgand's appearances outside of the main quest may not have been satisfying to all, but they fit perfectly with how the gods are established: trying to push their "correct" view of the world on Kith and (in Galawain's case) punishing you when you take the "wrong" decision. Ondra in PoE1's the same: you can have an entire argument trying to convince her otherwise, yet she only relents when she realizes letting the Eyeless fulfill their task would run counter to her purview, as destroying the dyrwood would hardly allow things to be forgotten. They're basically dogmatic AI's, which means any meaningful interaction would have to follow their programming or end in a tantrum as they aren't willing to follow; which really undermines the whole "meaningful" part.

Edited by Taevyr
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Still, you can't deny that in Skyrim the gods have quests for you, some personal time with each god would have been cool for Deadfire. Maybe different ending options depending on which gods you did quests for. It seems like they streamlined the main quest as much as possible and compensated with groovy visuals and setpieces to make it more exciting. Can't really blame them, but I wish the main quest had felt more substantial

Wouldn’t this more or less be the same thing they did in P1? Do you honestly think they wouldn’t have gotten roasted for this?
the quests for the gods come right at the end of Pillars 1, Pillars 2 could have them spread throughout the game. They kind of already do this with the quests where you meet Rymrgand and Galawain. Just have each god charge you with doing something in the big godchat cutscenes and you've got a bunch of main quest related secondary quests you can do whenever Edited by house2fly

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*shrug* I don’t imagine people would have been thrown off by putting the quests in the middle of the game rather than the end. Keep in mind that since only so much content can be made (therefore something has to be cut if you want to put something else in) this would have meant less game somewhere else. Either fewer factions, less engaging factions, or exploration would have taken a beating.


"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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Frankly if the gods told you to do faction quests that would have connected the main quest a little with the factions which are the REAL main quest

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Is this the same thread where people were bitching that they already felt that they were too much under the thumbs of the gods?


"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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I don't care too much what other people say. I don't care that I'm not able to kill Eothas, I care that I'm not taking an active part in what happens at the end and the main quest feels disconnected from everything else so whether I rush the main quest or do every piece of side content I'm having the same experience at Ukaizo

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And all I care about is a well-crafted story and character building


"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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Maybe they will make Eothas one of the Mega-Bosses ^^

Ooo! Meet Eothas at the Isle of Gratification. Recover the famed Vorpal Sword of Slaying. Kill all the NPC that didn’t have a direct hand in making you feel important in the vanilla game, which sufficiently weakens Eothas so that you can fight him. Final battle is a 10 minute cutscene which outlines all your accomplishments, culminating in something called “The Godhammer II”, a wedgie so powerful that it kills Eothas instantly. Brilliant.
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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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Lol Achilles. I feel like all this stuff on the forums has started to get to you. Though I can relate.

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Wut? I thought it was a good idea.

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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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Not at all :)

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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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Maybe they will make Eothas one of the Mega-Bosses ^^

Ooo! Meet Eothas at the Isle of Gratification. Recover the famed Vorpal Sword of Slaying. Kill all the NPC that didn’t have a direct hand in making you feel important in the vanilla game, which sufficiently weakens Eothas so that you can fight him. Final battle is a 10 minute cutscene which outlines all your accomplishments, culminating in something called “The Godhammer II”, a wedgie so powerful that it kills Eothas instantly. Brilliant.

 

Does that imply the saint's war ended when Durance gave Waidwen an explosive, soul-searing wedgie?

 

Headcanon established

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Maybe they will make Eothas one of the Mega-Bosses ^^

Ooo! Meet Eothas at the Isle of Gratification. Recover the famed Vorpal Sword of Slaying. Kill all the NPC that didn’t have a direct hand in making you feel important in the vanilla game, which sufficiently weakens Eothas so that you can fight him. Final battle is a 10 minute cutscene which outlines all your accomplishments, culminating in something called “The Godhammer II”, a wedgie so powerful that it kills Eothas instantly. Brilliant.

Does that imply the saint's war ended when Durance gave Waidwen an explosive, soul-searing wedgie?

 

Headcanon established

We do know that it came from below. I think that all we need, don’t we?

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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I’m pretty sure most players would appreciate a chance to wipe that righteous smile off of Eothas’ face...

 

Ideal option, have the watcher and the other 7-8 god join him/her in a group combat against Eothas. Think Battle of Cad Nua, but instead you have a huge open area with Eothas on one side and The Watcher, Magran, Galwain, Skaen, Berath, Hylea, Woedica, etc. on the other side. Even better, allow The Watcher a chance to pick his 6 person god crew!

 

Yeah, everyone might die, but it would be infinitely more rewarding than to listen to Doctor Manhattan, I mean Eothas, tell me for the zillionth time, “He is doing this for our own good..”

 

Foook him, bring on the god-brawl!

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At least all priests have good reason to follow Eothas, I assume that all gods (beside of Rymgrand) want to stop him 

Edited by mant2si

Solo PotD builds: The Glanfathan Soul Hunter (Neutral seer. Dominate and manipulate your enemies), Harbinger of Doom (Dark shaman. Burn and sacrifice, yourself and enemies for Skaen sake)

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 Deadfire's plot is unique in that the entire thing would resolve the exact same way, even if your character doesn't participate!

 

 

 I'm not arguing against your larger point, but Deadfire's plot is not unique in that way.

 

 In Raiders of the Lost Ark, Indiana Jones could have stayed in the classroom and nothing would have changed (except that the ark would have been lost on an island instead of lost in a warehouse).

 

 In 2001: A space Odyssey, David Bowman could have stayed on earth - he had no effect except to be reborn as a warning buoy to future visitors. Speaking of that, in the sequel, Dr. Floyd and the rest the crew that went looking for Bowman did nothing except learn what had happened (and, thereby, tell the audience).

 

 In Deadfire, you are Indiana Bowman Floyd, you don't change what happened w.r.t. Eothas though you do change the regional power structure, so maybe you're Indiana Bowman Floyd of Arabia - if he were a pirate (yeah, this analogy is going well). Your job is to let people know what happened and warn them that they need to act. 

 

edit: typo

Edited by Yonjuro
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This is kind of fun actually. Here's one: Luke going to confront the Emperor in Return Of The Jedi didn't affect the battle at all. And at the end of Empire Strikes Back he was a liability of anything

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Says that games should't copy other mediums

Proceeds to remove what makes games unique i.e player's agency

 

interesting twist Josh.

 

I now understand why there wasn't Cyric exploding volcanoes on your head in BG though (aside from FR gods/clerics rules). It's too hard to judge god's power in a narrative + it can just become tasteless and raise unnecessary questions.

Edited by Shadenuat

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Proceeds to remove what makes games unique i.e player's agency

I'd be tempted to call this hyperbole if it wasn't just plain wrong.

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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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