Pallegina Improvements

[Incendax]

I feel there has been a very important missed opportunity for Pallegina.

She knows the gods are fake, but at the very least they are powerful entities that meddle in the lives of the people around her. Her personal backstory involves being the victim of a goddess and mostly "escaping" that fate by her own choice.

So, I was genuinely surprised that she reacted so negatively to Xoti when the young woman started suffering beneath her nightmares. It makes sense for Pallegina to grumble when Xoti is being naive about the gods, but this was an amazing opportunity for Pallegina to sit down with Xoti and basically say "Hey, I know what it's like to be victimized by the gods. Let me help." Xoti would naturally resist, but if the Watcher sided with Pallegina on this point it could have turned into a beautiful side plot where Xoti slowly has her faith challenged and Pallegina could become almost motherly towards her.

It would strengthen a low-religion playthrough (Skeptic Eder, Skeptic Xoti, Pallegina).
It would make Pallegina seem less petty (Pallegina dislikes Xoti for... being a victim).
It would be a great character building moment for both of them.
 

[Yria]

Your idea sounds interesting but I think it would require to change the characters' personalities quite a bit to make it work.

 

Xoti doesn't view herself as a victim, she thinks herself chosen for a sacred duty and she is pretty excited about it, even though it comes with suffering some nightmares. Why should Pallegina consider her a victim then? In her eyes it's probably the same naivete taken to the extreme. I can easily see her being even more annoyed with Xoti because of that: the gods are making her suffer, yet she still wouldn't abandon them, gah, what an idiot! Especially since Xoti isn't really that young, she is 27 - about the same age Pallegina was in PoE. In Pallegina's eyes Xoti is a grown woman who acts like a dumb teenager, praises her god for sending her horrible visions and can't stop fangirling over the said god even when he himself tells her to bugger off because he doesn't care about the souls she's been collecting. 

 

Also, Pallegina herself suffered sort of a trauma and can't always be expected to stay rational and sympathetic. It would be cool if she did, but not being able to is perfectly human. The fact that she manages to get over her anti-godlike issues and make up with Tekehu was enough to make her seem less petty and elevate my opinion of her. 

[handsomenat]

That's might be beside the point but in my game it was Xoti who started conflict with Pallegina. Immediately calling her featherhead heretic and accusing her of blasphemy. So I don't really expect Pallegina to be all understanding and reaching out if the other party is pretty aggressive towards her.

[Suen]

 

but this was an amazing opportunity for Pallegina to sit down with Xoti and basically say "Hey, I know what it's like to be victimized by the gods. Let me help." 
 

 

I feel that would be... completely out of character for Pallegina.

I can't think of anything in PoE1 or PoE2 that would ever make me say "this is a patient person interested in gently educating others"

 

A couple of examples: 

PoE1: First encounter with Pallegina - she is leaving Mestre Verzano to die as he was supposed to solve his issues by himself. 

PoE1: Pallegina smiles when you crack a child's arm to teach him blades are not toys. 

 

She is not going to sit down and explain things to a religious fanatic. Is not her ****ing job. 

Edited June 23, 2018 by Suen

[Tick]

That's might be beside the point but in my game it was Xoti who started conflict with Pallegina. Immediately calling her featherhead heretic and accusing her of blasphemy. So I don't really expect Pallegina to be all understanding and reaching out if the other party is pretty aggressive towards her.

 

For me, Xoti started passive agressively asking if Pallegina was scared about being dragged into Hel instead of reincarnating lol.  \

 

EDIT: I actually really like your idea about Pallegina and Xoti, though I understand other people's arguments as to why they don't think it could happen.  It would be a cool way to make the relationship less 100% antagonistic and flesh out the characters more.  But I do think the writing around Pallegina and/or Xoti as characters would have to change more.  Especially with Xoti, I think you'd have to be able to actually change her mind some about how great the gods are/if they're inflicting pain on her for no good reason.

Edited June 23, 2018 by Tick

[Tarlonniel]

Xoti can have a late - very, very late - game revelation that Eothas isn't all he was cracked up to be, but, sadly, by then it's too late for Pallegina (or Eder) to have a conversation with her about it.

[Tick]

Xoti can have a late - very, very late - game revelation that Eothas isn't all he was cracked up to be, but, sadly, by then it's too late for Pallegina (or Eder) to have a conversation with her about it.

 

Wait, what!? D: I missed this? God dammit.

 

I remember the way she talked to Eothas at the last second wasn't quite as gushing, which I thought was weird, but I had no idea she can actually change her mind.

[Tarlonniel]

It's in your final conversation with her at Ukaizo. There are many, many versions of that talk, depending on your actions throughout the game. Xoti's dialogue trees are complicated and hard for me to follow, but this is more or less the version I managed to get once, somehow:

 

"No matter what happens with Eothas, you've got my back. Right?"

She doesn't answer for so long that you think she's not going to. Then she taps her blood-stained sickle against her thigh. "Sure do. If Gaun wants you dead, I figure he can do it himself. Besides, the part of him that's been stomping through the Deadfire didn't much help me at Magran's Teeth." She ruffles a shaky hand through her hair. "I thought it'd be different, how it turned out. But I couldn't dream of any other way." Xoti sets her jaw, grim.

 

 

The seeds of doubt have been planted and are starting to bear fruit, but it's far too late to really do anything with that.

Edited June 23, 2018 by Tarlonniel

[Tick]

It's in your final conversation with her at Ukaizo. There are many, many versions of that talk, depending on your actions throughout the game. Xoti's dialogue trees are complicated and hard for me to follow, but this is more or less the version I managed to get once, somehow:

 

"No matter what happens with Eothas, you've got my back. Right?"

 

She doesn't answer for so long that you think she's not going to. Then she taps her blood-stained sickle against her thigh. "Sure do. If Gaun wants you dead, I figure he can do it himself. Besides, the part of him that's been stomping through the Deadfire didn't much help me at Magran's Teeth." She ruffles a shaky hand through her hair. "I thought it'd be different, how it turned out. But I couldn't dream of any other way." Xoti sets her jaw, grim.

 

 

The seeds of doubt have been planted and are starting to bear fruit, but it's far too late to really do anything with that.

 

 

Oh that! I did see that, that's what I was thinking of.  I thought it was weird because she was so gun-ho up until that point.  But it's still cool to see her thinking differently than before.

[wingedchocolatecake]

It would be interesting to see Xoti change her mindset about the gods and Eothas. Maybe not through Pallegina, but the Watcher or Eder. It would certainly make her character arc more interesting.

[E.RedMark]

Humm..

 

while we know (and some others do know ) about how fake are the Gods . I honestly dissaprove about the idea to change 'X' character belief . 

 

The game isn't about removing religion cose Gods are fake! Look berath sent me with a token to prove it ! 

 

The charm of Xoti is her being a zealot . At least to me . 

 

And Pallegina need an update , regardless . I like the whole 'Bonding' like sister sister and such (and yes sister instead of mother , don't think pallegina is that old) . But doesn't have to be about one belief . 

 

I mean how would you feel if I suggested the opposite ? that Xoti convert Pallegina to her view of the gods ? Oh sure she know they are fake , but what if Xoti make this passionate speech about using them to inspire and heal the world and to bring hope and such . And Pallegina change her mind and wanna get closer to the God . 

 

Again , I guess my point isn't about religion per se . But about changing a character nature . Like turning durance into an eotha lover . The charm of durance was all the hostilitie he had . you either loved him , tolerated him..or hated his gut . But it made durance..durance . If he changed in any way (like start shaving and washing...)...eww.....thats not durance ! LOL 

 

Or yelling at Éder , enough that he grow a spine and leave and become a soldier again . It kinda kill his charm to some . 

 

Hope I didn't offend anyone lol just my though . But I do agree that we could've used more banter between all the companions , deep connections even . And Pallegina..could be a bit more tempered , cose as she is..she come off as someone who need anger management . 

[Celan]

Xoti shouldn't have tried to convert Pallegina, and vice versa. It never works out.

 

So, to be clear- no, I would not be a fan of Pallegina taking a vulnerable moment in Xoti's life and using it to try to convert her to a particular point of view.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Celan

[E.RedMark]

Xoti shouldn't have tried to convert Pallegina, and vice versa. It never works out.

 

So, to be clear- no, I would not be a fan of Pallegina taking a vulnerable moment in Xoti's life and using it to try to convert her to a particular point of view.

as I remember it (mind you..this is from a bugged game where half dialogues are missing) , Pallegina said something to Xoti , and that got Xoti all mad about it . (I only got Xoti reaction cose of the bug) . Then you can tell to Pallegina that 'Xoti lived her whole life with her faith and blahblah' or you can tell Xoti 'that pallegina belief aren't wrong and blahblah' . 

 

even being a diplomat , Pallegina sneer at my watcher calling them 'naive' . 

 

So if there is another dialogue with converting , I haven't seen it . Then again , Pallegina come off as an ass..and I can't stand someone who is butthurt for the whole voyage . 

[Celan]

There's a whole series of dialogues between them. Xoti has a fit about Pallegina disrespecting the gods. Then in later dialogues, Pallegina erupts and Xoti admits she's been trying to "help her see the light."