Two handed swords? Whispers of the EP

[Zoso der Goldene]

 

 

Pretty sure that’s the trade off for hitting multiple enemies in a foe-only cone, including class abilities like crippling blow, etc. I really dug it when using my battlemage.

* The cone is not foe-only (or did that change in 1.1?).

* If you attack only one foe, you hit twice (that was supposed to go away with 1.1, but for me, it still does - maybe that's different in a new playthrough?)

 

hang on hang on

 

your saying the cone attack hits friends and foes?

 

and

 

If you hit one person it hits them twice??? how does this work?

 

friend and foe:

as I said, before 1.1, it was AoE, not Foe AoE and hit companions as well. Have to verify with 1.1 for the current status. if they changed it, that would make up for some of the lost power, at least from a handling perspective.

 

Attacking twice:

If there was only one target in the cone, a single attack attacked twice (and for me, it still does, but that might be different in fresh playthrough),

[George_Truman]

I just hate that the weapon feels so aggravating to use. Its potential damage is probably great but I never use it on account of how annoying I find the micro.

 

I they wish made an ugly sword niche and made the zweihander a regular weapon like they did with poleaxes.

 

Or maybe replace the crummy greatsword modal with an aoe.

Edited June 13, 2018 by George_Truman

[Zoso der Goldene]

I just hate that the weapon feels so aggravating to use. Its potential damage is probably great but I never use it on account of how annoying I find the micro.

 

I they wish made an ugly sword niche and made the zweihander a regular weapon like they did with poleaxes.

 

Or maybe replace the crummy greatsword modal with an aoe.

I think it's kinda fair that you can get some more mileage out of additional micro. I don't think it works for everyone, and to get the most out of it, you need

• proper attributes,
• the right active abilities,
• some passives,
• additional items that boost your attributes even more,
• optionally drugs,
• need to prep the targets (maybe even for Deathblows),
• invisibility,
• positioning, all the while ensuring you stay invisible and don't hit your companions when you strike,
• turn on the "crummy greatsword modal" for even more damage The accuracy boost from assassinate more than make up for the -10, so convert acc to dmg.
• for maximum effect, don't forget to Empower, 
• ...

So yes, that becomes kind of a mini game, but the rewards a worth it if you like that kind of maneuvering.

If you do, you are also willing to sacrifice a little DPS for the fun.

If you don't, obviously, just ignore it. Not everything in this game is for everyone, be it classes, races, items, companions, ... , and I don't think it has to be.

 

Point is, this Sword has its uses.

[Boeroer]

I think the double hit and the friendly fire will get removed with a new playthrough? For me it now only hits once (the initial target). But I use it for the same reasons as you and still think it's pretty good. Awesome even. It's just a bit silly that such a huge sword does to puny base damage. One could have balanced the dps via speed instead.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Boeroer

[Zoso der Goldene]

I think the double hit and the friendly fire will get removed with a new playthrough? For me it now only hits once (the initial target). But I use it for the same reasons as you and still think it's pretty good. Awesome even. It's just a bit silly that such a huge sword does to puny base damage. One could have balanced the dps via speed instead.

I'll verify that and update this thread accordingly.

I'm not a console/Irole20s aficionado, so it might take a while.

I wondered why it works like before, but I guess under the hood they created a new item with a new identifier to be able to separate code paths more easily. That would mean that through the console, the old version would still be available, let's see.

[antman45454]

I think the double hit and the friendly fire will get removed with a new playthrough? For me it now only hits once (the initial target). But I use it for the same reasons as you and still think it's pretty good. Awesome even. It's just a bit silly that such a huge sword does to puny base damage. One could have balanced the dps via speed instead.

so thats a confrimation only hits once after patch 1.01?

 

if it is only once i wont be using it at all. Would be such a huge pain in the but to micro it for all the above uses you guys have mentioned. 

 

I honestly dont even think it would be worth it to micro it for the AOE because you have to switch over to another weapon at some stage

 

I mean lets face it if your stuck with a 1v1 situation you  are stuck with an extremely terrible weapon. Like probably the worst weapon in the game.Nearly the  Same damage as a dagger but twice as slow.

Edited June 13, 2018 by antman45454

[Zoso der Goldene]

I think the double hit and the friendly fire will get removed with a new playthrough? For me it now only hits once (the initial target). But I use it for the same reasons as you and still think it's pretty good. Awesome even. It's just a bit silly that such a huge sword does to puny base damage. One could have balanced the dps via speed instead.

Release Notes:

 

Whispers of the Endless Paths

• Heavy Blade 20% Crush Proc -> 15%.
• Two-hander - Cone attack is now set to Hostile only.
• Offensive Parry +5 Deflection -> +4.
• Offensive Parry 12 to 14 Base Damage -> 8 to 12.
• Spinning Assault 2/Encounter -> 1/Encounter.

So Foe AoE now, but still 2 attacks (at least not mentioned in the notes, but that needs to be verified in-game).

And they made Spinning assault 1/Encounter.

 

For Soul Annihilation however:

• Soul Annihilation Focus -> Raw Damage ratio halved and Raw Damage only applies on first hit in an AOE.

So everything DOES seem to be how I remember from my current playthrough, except SA only proc on first hit in an AoE - maybe that refers to Rod Modal, that's what I noticed, but for WotEP, it still got applied to every hit. Might be that it resolves to individual Attacks to everything in an AoE?

Edited June 13, 2018 by Zoso der Goldene

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

In-game it's only one attack on primary target.

[kmbogd]

As far as I can tell, in 1.1.0.0035 there is only 1 attack on each target inside the cone, I've never seen 2 attacks on the same target. Also Offensive Parry riposte does not seem to be an AoE attack but it affects only the opponent that missed you.

[InsaneCommander]

I do. It allows me to use Empowered Soul Annihilation, Backstab, Sneak Attack, & Savage Attack on 4-5 targets in one strike.

 

Or use the spinning attack and get to 100% focus or above in one spin.

High INT helps to hit as many as possible in both cases.

 

That looks good. My assassin definitely don't use huge wepons, so I'll give it to Rekke and try to increase the damage anyway I can. But even if he doesn't Rekke havok, I might use it, as long as it is not too bad.

[Boeroer]

For me it doesn't use Backstab in an AoE, only on the initial target. Other stuff works in an AoE though.

[Boeroer]

If Offensive Parry is now reduced to single target damage that's one of the hardest punches for the Blade.

[Zoso der Goldene]

If Offensive Parry is now reduced to single target damage that's one of the hardest punches for the Blade.

I think they would have mentioned that in the Release Notes, because they mention some Fighter Abilities that were nerfed that way:

• Cleaving Stance - Only strikes a single enemy per kill.
• Mob Stance - Only strikes a single enemy per kill.

But in other respects, the Release Notes seem to be incomplete, so in-game verification is required, I guess.

[dunehunter]

There is not many reasons to use big two handed weapons in the game anyway, one WotEP or not, doesn’t affect the whole weapon groups.

[DozingDragon]

While I still like the weapon for what it is, even with the 1.1 changes, I feel like it would benefit from a modal to turn the cone off in exchange for higher single target damage.

[Madscientist]

Some question for version 1.1:

 

- Does the AoE use additional effects like:

+ damage bonus from sneak attack or soul whip,

+ apply status effects e.g. when using crippling strike

+ generate focus for ciphers or wounds for shattered pillar

+ cause carnage

+ maybe other things?

 

- The same question for other weapons that can hit in an AoE or the attack can jump to another target

[Zoso der Goldene]

Some question for version 1.1:

 

- Does the AoE use additional effects like:

+ damage bonus from sneak attack or soul whip,

+ apply status effects e.g. when using crippling strike

+ generate focus for ciphers or wounds for shattered pillar

+ cause carnage

+ maybe other things?

 

- The same question for other weapons that can hit in an AoE or the attack can jump to another target

Sneak attack, soul whip: Yes

Status Effect: Yes

Generate Focus: Yes

Carnage: Not sure; I guess Yes

 

Other Weapons: I'm not aware of any that work just like it; I know that the Rod Modal doesn't - I guess the damage does not count as direct weapon damage

[Madscientist]

 

Some question for version 1.1:

 

- Does the AoE use additional effects like:

+ damage bonus from sneak attack or soul whip,

+ apply status effects e.g. when using crippling strike

+ generate focus for ciphers or wounds for shattered pillar

+ cause carnage

+ maybe other things?

 

- The same question for other weapons that can hit in an AoE or the attack can jump to another target

Sneak attack, soul whip: Yes

Status Effect: Yes

Generate Focus: Yes

Carnage: Not sure; I guess Yes

 

Other Weapons: I'm not aware of any that work just like it; I know that the Rod Modal doesn't - I guess the damage does not count as direct weapon damage

 

 

In this case the weapon seems to be very useful when fighting several enemies.

So if you have a char who uses 2h weapons and several enemies stand close to each other you use WotEP and you switch to another 2h weapon when fighting only a single enemy.

[Zoso der Goldene]

 

 

Some question for version 1.1:

 

- Does the AoE use additional effects like:

+ damage bonus from sneak attack or soul whip,

+ apply status effects e.g. when using crippling strike

+ generate focus for ciphers or wounds for shattered pillar

+ cause carnage

+ maybe other things?

 

- The same question for other weapons that can hit in an AoE or the attack can jump to another target

Sneak attack, soul whip: Yes

Status Effect: Yes

Generate Focus: Yes

Carnage: Not sure; I guess Yes

 

Other Weapons: I'm not aware of any that work just like it; I know that the Rod Modal doesn't - I guess the damage does not count as direct weapon damage

 

 

In this case the weapon seems to be very useful when fighting several enemies.

So if you have a char who uses 2h weapons and several enemies stand close to each other you use WotEP and you switch to another 2h weapon when fighting only a single enemy.

 

I switch between WotEP and dual-wielding (Rapier or Sword in the main hand, Dagger in the Off Hand).

I open dual-wielding from stealth (Lover's Embrace adds a nice bonus there) to generate Focus and make use of the Full Attack with Crippling Strike.

To be clear (Boeroer mentioned this above), Backstab is only applied once, but that goes for dual-wielding as well. I guess the rationale is that you really only strike from stealth once.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Zoso der Goldene

[dunehunter]

If you can stun several enemy with WotEP then it is good, the only class that can do it is Monk with stunning strike. But ironically monk can spam Torment Raise so it doesn't matter what weapon u use.

 

Btw if AOE damage is not high enough, taking down single target is always more efficient because the faster you take down single target, the less damage pressure you have in the combat.

[Zoso der Goldene]

If you can stun several enemy with WotEP then it is good, the only class that can do it is Monk with stunning strike. But ironically monk can spam Torment Raise so it doesn't matter what weapon u use.

 

Btw if AOE damage is not high enough, taking down single target is always more efficient because the faster you take down single target, the less damage pressure you have in the combat.

Did Fighter's Power Strike change? Or did I misread "the only class that can do it"?

[Abel]

I use it on a Spellblade Aloth on PotD (where there are lots of enemies) and with high INT, a Ring of Overseeing and Aloth's armor I can attack up to five enemies often and usually three minimum. Depends on positioning though. I can also use Pull of Eora to create a ball of foes which I can all affect with stuff like Arterial Strike or Confounding Blind or so. Or even Devastating Blow (which is kind of cool with a low AoE dmg weapon because overkill is less of an issue). I also use Offensive Parry because Aloth as a wizard can reach very high defection with Mirrored Image/Wizards' Double/Arcane Veil and stacked deflection items. For me, the sword works still wonderfully well. But it certainly is more of a niche item now.

 

It's also still nice with Swift Flurry+Heartbeat Drumming and Stunning Blows by the way.

 

 

Looks like you need to be a "Builds God" to be able to use it properly. I very much like special items with special effects though. Pillars 1 lacked this at first. If i end up actually playing the game, i may be able to grasp enough about it to use this weapon really efficiently in my 23th playthrough. Which is actually fine by me. Because this means that there will always be something new for me to master in the game. Even in 10 years . I will probably start using items with simple, flat out bonuses though.

 

EDIT: Actually, true problem may be that if they're going to make such niche items like this, they need to make like, way more unique items as a whole. If i think about Pillars 1 or the Pillars 2 wiki, at the end of the day, they may lack a variety of more straightforward options, equipement wise.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Abel

[Boeroer]

The unique AoE Pollaxe also works like WotEP when it comes to applying afflictons like Stunning Blows or Crippling Strike or whatever in an AoE. It also has reduced base damage like the WotEP. It also still works with Swift Flurry and Heartbeat Drumming. I use it on Xoti. My goal is to use it with Instruments of Pain. I'm curious if that will work as I expect.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Boeroer

[Abel]

I was never able to find a way to use properly the rapier "Spelltongue" in Pillars 1. Altough the increasing of effect duration seemed quite powerful at first, i could only imagine it being usefull on some kind of multiclassed caster/fighter. Well, i never got past the end of Act 2 , and never played White March part II (and may never do so), which may not help. Even though my playthrough is about 150 or maybe 200 hours long right now. But well, i almost wrote a novella worth of entries in the the personal diary of my MC, which is quite time consuming

 

Still, if some base mechanics of Pillars 2 end up being changed along the way, i will probably try to play the game someday, and thus, give Pillars 1 another try. And may learn some new things while doing so.

[Boeroer]

Spelltongue + Barb = https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/83388-class-build-the-leech-barbarian-time-bandit-tank/