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On my second pt, I decided to romance Aloth for old time's sake as I loved him in POE1. However, HOW the heck do you do this? I've intentionally avoided all the fun responses he gurgles at and reloaded when I did it by accident, although doing so is ruining my character for me lol. However, I'm *still* at approval 0. I also avoided recruiting Tekehu for as long as seemed reasonable and instantly after recruiting him was already at +1, and I've flirted with no one.

 

I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind this aspect of Aloth. He's your buddy from the last game, and in my games ought to actually like the Watcher, so why is it so much harder to get approval from an old friend your watcher stuck with in spite of them lying and being completely weird, and why is he so uptight and judgy? My watchers never even said one negative thing to him about his lying in poe1, let him steal the animancer's records, and play along when they meet im in Deadfire. It's not like his disapproval makes sense a lot of the time; it just makes him come across as a killjoy. Not every lighthearted comment someone makes is worthy of them being hated, especially by a person who's that far off the perfect mark, and making obviously jokey statements about one's own glory is arguably less obnoxious than constant eye rolling and snide comments xD. Also, it's a thin line between "duty" and "tradition" a lot of the time, and I feel like someone who thinks you shouldn't do things just because they are tradition and who believes kith should make their own choices, should also not think people should do any old crap just cos it's their perceived duty (in Xoti's case, it's hard to imagine where her sense of duty comes from, and him approving Maia assassinating people for the RDC just cos she's told to while at the same time he mistrusts the RDC is weird). All in all, he comes across as an uptight, highly judgmental hypocrite who doesn't really want to be in the party at all, or only if you take the people who have no sense of humour and obsess over some duty along. Serafen disapproving of slavery, Pallegina of religious zealots and Tekehu of people who want to mess with his culture, and all of them of racism (I think), just make more sense as values and make them come across as less superficial in spite of Sera and Tek being lighthearted otherwise.

 

Anyhow, my disgruntledness with his imo butchered personality aside, how does one romance him or get him to actually approve of anything? In my last pt I ignored his grumbling for the most part, but still got to +1 after his personal quest.

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While I agree with your opinion on Aloth's personality in the second game, I think there is something weird going on with some of companion approval tags. For example, when I decided to give that tablet from Arkemyr's house to the huana questgiver, Aloth suddenly disapproved of me with a "pride" tag before I even said a word? It kinda went like -

Huana: Oh hi Watcher!

Aloth: [Pride] Aloth gives you a pained look

ALOTH WTF

 

Then there is also Xoti and Serafen approving Maia's story about killing that spoiler guy and telling you all the gruesome details with "wordliness" tag. I guess I could kinda... sorta... understand Serafen liking the story (although not really) but Xoti? And how the hell was it wordly?

 

Tl; dr: the approval system seems terribly broken, not only in terms of numbers and speed at which you gain reputation, but also the tags themselves.

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While I agree with your opinion on Aloth's personality in the second game, I think there is something weird going on with some of companion approval tags. For example, when I decided to give that tablet from Arkemyr's house to the huana questgiver, Aloth suddenly disapproved of me with a "pride" tag before I even said a word? It kinda went like -

Huana: Oh hi Watcher!

Aloth: [Pride] Aloth gives you a pained look

ALOTH WTF

 

Then there is also Xoti and Serafen approving Maia's story about killing that spoiler guy and telling you all the gruesome details with "wordliness" tag. I guess I could kinda... sorta... understand Serafen liking the story (although not really) but Xoti? And how the hell was it wordly?

 

Tl; dr: the approval system seems terribly broken, not only in terms of numbers and speed at which you gain reputation, but also the tags themselves.

Yeah I've noticed some weird instances of the wordly tag resulting in approval too, though I don't remember them specifically. I think I obsess over Aloth more than the others due to him being my fav (apart from Zahua) in 1 and my brain is trying really hard not to hate him, and because it's so challenging to get his approval up. At least the others are easy enough to get approval from even if they are sometimes strange (well, the ones I've tried to get approval from anyway), so it's easier to shrug the  nonsense off. Someone needs to tell Aloth that hating everyone for dumb crap is also a kind of pride xD

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 I think I obsess over Aloth more than the others due to him being my fav (apart from Zahua) in 1 and my brain is trying really hard not to hate him, and because it's so challenging to get his approval up.

 

I totally get it, he was one of my favorites in the first game as well. But now that he is giving people pained looks and massaging his temples i find it difficult to like him. And if you think this is bad wait until his opinion of you drops to -1 and he starts lecturing you about "becoming like Thaos" because traditions.

 

As for what you could do to raise his approval, there are a couple of methods to cheat your way around it. There is a mod on Nexus that allows you to use the console without disabling the achievements, and then there is also that dancer girl on Dunnage (in the quest where you need to assemble a theatre group, Aloth approves each time you approach the innkeeper with a propostion to buy the girl's freedom and immediately leave the conversation, so you can just keep engaging in the same dialogue over and over again until you gain enough approval).

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Its actually not that difficult once you figure out what he likes. The difficulty is seeing how your responses affect companion approval in numerical terms. Because disposition is only 1, 2, or -1, -2, you can't see how much points you gain or lose that constitute into those 1 and 2. 

I had to go with the console to see how he is affected, and its actually not bad. There are some weird instances of gained/lost disposition, but its very doable to get his approval to 2 early in game by doing specific quests and talking to specific people.

Also you don't have to play a stoic character with zero sense of humor. You can joke around and be a buffoon and he would be okay with it. Just need to avoid irresponsible jokes.

Edited by Aridea
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Emissary Tar: At last, someone who looks like they could be of some assistance! The assorted boobs and dimwits around here have been of very little help.
 
Charname: I’m afraid you have mistaken us for someone else. I’m Dimwit, this is my good friend Boob, and behind me you’ll find Brainless and Moron. How do you do? 
 

 

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I had no trouble with Aloth choosing mostly benevolent and honest dispositions. By the time I had my ship at Port Maje I already had approval 1.

 

First of all you can activate in the settings that you see the disposition icons for the dialog choices - so you see if a dialog choice is intended to be honest, diplomatic and so on.

 

I think if you do not blow Aloths cover when you recruit him you already get some approval points from him. You can get a lot more points just by talking with him when you get the ship - for example when you choose the "how do we met again" choice you will get several dialog options to respond to the back story that he tells you.

 

You can get lots of points if you do his personal quest. If you want him to stay with you in the end you need to tell him at this point that he does not have to destroy the leaden key. At least if he is anti-leaden key - not sure how it is if he is pro leaden key.

 

But I noticed that he can loose points very fast - for example bringing Xoti to the temple so that she can release the souls seem to loose points with him. And asking Xoti why she doesn't stop collecting souls - for Aloth this is like telling her to stop being dutiful and he hates it. I think I went from 128 to 96 with him just for the few dialog options with Xoti.

 

Anyway, there is a mod that you can use to see the actual points and to change them if you like - meaning you can observe how a dialog choice affects your points and to change them and to give for example Aloth enough points to trigger the romance.

 

I think for the romance you need approval 2 and you have to visit the ashen maw island.

 

Here is the link for the mod: https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/2

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Its actually not that difficult once you figure out what he likes. The difficulty is seeing how your responses affect companion approval in numerical terms. Because disposition is only 1, 2, or -1, -2, you can't see how much points you gain or lose that constitute into those 1 and 2. 

I had to go with the console to see how he is affected, and its actually not bad. There are some weird instances of gained/lost disposition, but its very doable to get his approval to 2 early in game by doing specific quests and talking to specific people.

Also you don't have to play a stoic character with zero sense of humor. You can joke around and be a buffoon and he would be okay with it. Just need to avoid irresponsible jokes.

I dunno I must be doing really badly then since I'm intentionally avoiding his disapproval. I think I only got one so far, when he interpreted my character picking a convo option to avoid a fight as being "traditional". Considering how he lies and expects you to lie for him, he ought to be able to cope with the concept of saying what people want to hear if it's the better option sometimes.

 

 

I totally get it, he was one of my favorites in the first game as well. But now that he is giving people pained looks and massaging his temples i find it difficult to like him. And if you think this is bad wait until his opinion of you drops to -1 and he starts lecturing you about "becoming like Thaos" because traditions.

 

As for what you could do to raise his approval, there are a couple of methods to cheat your way around it. There is a mod on Nexus that allows you to use the console without disabling the achievements, and then there is also that dancer girl on Dunnage (in the quest where you need to assemble a theatre group, Aloth approves each time you approach the innkeeper with a propostion to buy the girl's freedom and immediately leave the conversation, so you can just keep engaging in the same dialogue over and over again until you gain enough approval).

I did actually get his approval to -1 on my last playtrhough, but it was due to joking around with Tekehu who my character was romancing and I reloaded, kicked Aloth out of the party, and then did it again without him. However, if he'd have lectured about tradition after that, it would have been weird. Also, how can he be so sure Thaos did what he did due to tradition as opposed to duty? I got the impression Thaos thinks he's doing the right thing, as in that people need gods and maintaining the narrative of the deities sometimes involves making sacrifices, and that seems to me to come more from a sense of duty than tradition. *shrug* His idee fixe about tradition = bad and duty = good also makes him come across as opinionated and inflexible to me, since both of those can arguably be good and bad depending upon their context. For instance, one can disapprove of the Huana caste system, but still think that doesn't give others the right to annihilate their culture by force and replace it with their own flawed ideals. That seems quite similar to gods deciding for kith, which he disapproves of. *grumble, moan* xD

 

Thanks for the suggestions btw, but I don't know how to do console commands and I've already done that quest. Also I'm stubborn and feel it ought to be doable by just playing normally, especially if the Watcher has a positive history with Aloth from 1 (maybe understandable if the Watcher told him: I h8 u, u liar, but u can stick around cuz u r useful sometimes ,but watch ur step or else, and similar things xD ).

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And if you think this is bad wait until his opinion of you drops to -1 and he starts lecturing you about "becoming like Thaos" because traditions.

 

 

I had that when I took him and Tekehu to the Wild Mare for the first time. There is a humorous conversation between the godlike and the innkeeper, in which I participated, with Aloth rolling his eyes the whole time. I assumed it was at Tekehu's party animal antics, but apparently, me joking about it was just as bad. Went from 0 to -1,5 after that one encounter, triggering the "get your s... together, you're not treating this whole Eothas business seriously" lecture.

 

The relationship system is a nice concept, but it is executed so badly that I would prefer it to just not be there at all.

 

 

 Just need to avoid irresponsible jokes.

 

I don't think a joke can be irresponsible unless it's practical. For instance, I have a friend who is a physician, jokes about his work all the time, with friends and patients alike, sometimes (rarely) in bad taste even. Most responsible guy I know. 

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Just need to avoid irresponsible jokes.

 

I don't think a joke can be irresponsible unless it's practical. For instance, I have a friend who is a physician, jokes about his work all the time, with friends and patients alike, sometimes (rarely) in bad taste even. Most responsible guy I know.

 

Have to agree. My last char was joking all the time, doesn't mean he was irresponsible. I'd argue getting daunting things done is easier if one can still have a laugh. It's certainly more positive than whining, hating everyone and being chronically passive aggressive xD In fact, Tekehu and Serafen's lack of disapproval as regards Aloth just makes him come across as even worse to me. Maybe it's supposed to reflect his lack of self confidence, but it's not endearing at all.

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While I agree with your opinion on Aloth's personality in the second game, I think there is something weird going on with some of companion approval tags. For example, when I decided to give that tablet from Arkemyr's house to the huana questgiver, Aloth suddenly disapproved of me with a "pride" tag before I even said a word? It kinda went like -

Huana: Oh hi Watcher!

Aloth: [Pride] Aloth gives you a pained look

ALOTH WTF

 

Then there is also Xoti and Serafen approving Maia's story about killing that spoiler guy and telling you all the gruesome details with "wordliness" tag. I guess I could kinda... sorta... understand Serafen liking the story (although not really) but Xoti? And how the hell was it wordly?

 

Tl; dr: the approval system seems terribly broken, not only in terms of numbers and speed at which you gain reputation, but also the tags themselves.

 

Yeah, happened to me too. Remember those performers in Queen's Berth? There's a kid hanging out nearby. When I tried to talk to said kid, Aloth suddenly gave me the same "pride"-tagged disapproval. Like what the actual heck. I reloaded right after and talked to the kid again just to check if he'd have the same reaction again, and nothing happened (but I'm still suspicious, I mean, what if there is a hidden disappoval thing going on :D).

 

 

 I think I obsess over Aloth more than the others due to him being my fav (apart from Zahua) in 1 and my brain is trying really hard not to hate him, and because it's so challenging to get his approval up.

 

I totally get it, he was one of my favorites in the first game as well. But now that he is giving people pained looks and massaging his temples i find it difficult to like him. And if you think this is bad wait until his opinion of you drops to -1 and he starts lecturing you about "becoming like Thaos" because traditions.

 

 

That is indeed a bummer. He's obviously still my favourite, but I am disappointed with the way he was portrayed in Deadfire (and now I'm slightly paranoid that because of this he's not going to make it to the next game as a companion).

Edited by CaptainBiscuit
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That is indeed a bummer. He's obviously still my favourite, but I am disappointed with the way he was portrayed in Deadfire (and now I'm slightly paranoid that because of this he's not going to make it to the next game as a companion).

I have to admit that thought crossed my mind. I wondered whether he was written in a way to make people dislike him so no one would care when he disappears. I even wondered if whoever wrote him dislikes him xD
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And if you think this is bad wait until his opinion of you drops to -1 and he starts lecturing you about "becoming like Thaos" because traditions.

 

I had that when I took him and Tekehu to the Wild Mare for the first time. There is a humorous conversation between the godlike and the innkeeper, in which I participated, with Aloth rolling his eyes the whole time. I assumed it was at Tekehu's party animal antics, but apparently, me joking about it was just as bad. Went from 0 to -1,5 after that one encounter, triggering the "get your s... together, you're not treating this whole Eothas business seriously" lecture.

 

Huh. I joked in that conversation too, but Aloth only disapproved of Tekehu, not me. My own rep with him remained at 0. Go figure.

 

It also seems that when Aloth reacts to something it doesn't always get listed in the conversation window. Your score with him goes up/down, but you are not informed about it. Might be the same with other companions as well.

 

In fact, Tekehu and Serafen's lack of disapproval as regards Aloth just makes him come across as even worse to me. Maybe it's supposed to reflect his lack of self confidence, but it's not endearing at all.

 

This is something I actually like about this whole relationship system. It reflects the companions' personalities rather well. Both Serafen and Tekehu (especially Tekehu) are friendly and easy-going, and they aren't going to have a problem with you unless you really cross the line. I bet Tekehu isn't even aware that he is such a headache to half of the party lol.

Edited by Yria
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Ugh, how many threads about Aloth will there be, I wonder, until his bugs are fixed?  :facepalm:

He's bugged. The details are here:

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/99004-collective-summary-of-all-the-glaring-bugs-in-the-relationship-system/

So has anyone official confirmed it's bugged? You mention him having conflicting dispostions, but is it really a bug or did they intend him to be like that?

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Ugh, how many threads about Aloth will there be, I wonder, until his bugs are fixed?  :facepalm:

He's bugged. The details are here:

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/99004-collective-summary-of-all-the-glaring-bugs-in-the-relationship-system/

So has anyone official confirmed it's bugged? You mention him having conflicting dispostions, but is it really a bug or did they intend him to be like that?

Yes, devs confirmed it in the last stream. And no, there is no ETA when the patch fixing all this will come out.

Edited by Aramintai
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Ugh, how many threads about Aloth will there be, I wonder, until his bugs are fixed?  :facepalm:

He's bugged. The details are here:

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/99004-collective-summary-of-all-the-glaring-bugs-in-the-relationship-system/

So has anyone official confirmed it's bugged? You mention him having conflicting dispostions, but is it really a bug or did they intend him to be like that?

Yes, devs confirmed it in the last stream. And no, there is no ETA when the patch fixing all this will come out.

 

Well that's a relief I guess.

 

 

And if you think this is bad wait until his opinion of you drops to -1 and he starts lecturing you about "becoming like Thaos" because traditions.

 

I had that when I took him and Tekehu to the Wild Mare for the first time. There is a humorous conversation between the godlike and the innkeeper, in which I participated, with Aloth rolling his eyes the whole time. I assumed it was at Tekehu's party animal antics, but apparently, me joking about it was just as bad. Went from 0 to -1,5 after that one encounter, triggering the "get your s... together, you're not treating this whole Eothas business seriously" lecture.

 

Huh. I joked in that conversation too, but Aloth only disapproved of Tekehu, not me. My own rep with him remained at 0. Go figure.

 

It also seems that when Aloth reacts to something it doesn't always get listed in the conversation window. Your score with him goes up/down, but you are not informed about it. Might be the same with other companions as well.

 

In fact, Tekehu and Serafen's lack of disapproval as regards Aloth just makes him come across as even worse to me. Maybe it's supposed to reflect his lack of self confidence, but it's not endearing at all.

 

This is something I actually like about this whole relationship system. It reflects the companions' personalities rather well. Both Serafen and Tekehu (especially Tekehu) are friendly and easy-going, and they aren't going to have a problem with you unless you really cross the line. I bet Tekehu isn't even aware that he is such a headache to half of the party lol.

 

Yeah don't get me wrong, I didn't mean I don't like it, but it doesn't make Aloth come across in any better light. He just feels like a super judgy guy who only likes/dislikes people based on whether they are self-confident/light-hearted or myopically adhere to their "duties", and in the case of the Watcher his approval or lack thereof seems even more superficial (kind of like "I don't care you stuck with me through thick and thin and always have my back, you joked with the shark guy once to often, game over us" xD ). Btw, I also hit -1 after the Wild Mare scene with Tekehu.

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Choosing diplomatic/benevolent options will get his approval up very quickly, as others mentioned. My benevolent/diplomatic/honest Watcher had him at +2 so fast it made my head spin :grin:   If you joke around, you just have to be careful of the context - sometimes he's fine with it, sometimes not (the mod really helps show the difference).

 

By the way, you can also start a romance with him by getting to -2. At the moment It only works in games where Iselmyr is still around, but that seems to be a bug.

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Choosing diplomatic/benevolent options will get his approval up very quickly, as others mentioned. My benevolent/diplomatic/honest Watcher had him at +2 so fast it made my head spin :grin:   If you joke around, you just have to be careful of the context - sometimes he's fine with it, sometimes not (the mod really helps show the difference).

 

By the way, you can also start a romance with him by getting to -2. At the moment It only works in games where Iselmyr is still around, but that seems to be a bug.

My last one had every single disposition maxed out except cruel really early on. This one doesn't as he's les YOLO, but he doesn't seem to be doing any better with Aloth in spite of my picking way less joke options and reloading when he disapproves. Maybe I should use more diplomatic/honest (he's already hardcore beneveolent), but OTOH I feel it ruins the game if you have to play a character in some exact way to get a companion to like you, especially when we're talking about unimportant banter. I'm a cipher/rogue and being overtly diplomatic/honest doesn't really fit. Maybe I should just give up and leave it for another character. Talking of honest, does he approve if you blow his cover at the beginning? xD

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Talking of honest, does he approve if you blow his cover at the beginning? xD

I don't know if you take an actual approval hit, but he's certainly pissed at you. :grin:

 

I like that you have to play a character a certain way to get a companion's approval. I think that's exactly as it should be. The game doesn't gate romances by gender, race, etc., it gates by behavior instead. And as I mentioned, there is a rivalmance! I haven't played to the end on the rivalmance track because of the bug, but I'm curious to see how the ending slides turn out.

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I like that you have to play a character a certain way to get a companion's approval. I think that's exactly as it should be. The game doesn't gate romances by gender, race, etc., it gates by behavior instead. And as I mentioned, there is a rivalmance! I haven't played to the end on the rivalmance track because of the bug, but I'm curious to see how the ending slides turn out.

Heh, well I prefer playing more flexible characters (and I also don't think Aloth should be that fussy since it makes him a hypocrite), so I guess it's no Aloth for my Watchers then. *sniff* I'm okay with characters having understandable red flags, but only giving approval to people who act in an exact x way while ignoring all the positive stuff they've done for you is a mega turn off to me. Maybe I'll try the rivalmance when I play an evil character, but I'd probably feel too bad. xD
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I don't think a joke can be irresponsible unless it's practical. For instance, I have a friend who is a physician, jokes about his work all the time, with friends and patients alike, sometimes (rarely) in bad taste even. Most responsible guy I know. 

 

No of course not. But we are talking about a game here not real life, and companion relationships aren't the most important part of the game, hence simplification.

Honestly I am okay with the system. I miss the time when I don't have to worry about what I pick in conversation unless I want to murder someone, but if this type of disposition is what requires me to have more conversations/romances/flirts/etc., I am good with that.

 

At least its not DAI where the options are so not transparent that your character comes of as borderline psychotic. 

 

 

like that you have to play a character a certain way to get a companion's approval. I think that's exactly as it should be. The game doesn't gate romances by gender, race, etc., it gates by behavior instead. And as I mentioned, there is a rivalmance! I haven't played to the end on the rivalmance track because of the bug, but I'm curious to see how the ending slides turn out.

 

 

Actually, its the opposite with Aloth. If the romance was only available at positive disposition, then yeah, it would have been behavior gated. But since its open for both pro- and rivalmance, its not. I think with others it is though, Xoti and Tekehu probably are behavior gated (but its not difficult to get approval with them), Maia idk.

Edited by Aridea
Emissary Tar: At last, someone who looks like they could be of some assistance! The assorted boobs and dimwits around here have been of very little help.
 
Charname: I’m afraid you have mistaken us for someone else. I’m Dimwit, this is my good friend Boob, and behind me you’ll find Brainless and Moron. How do you do? 
 

 

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Maybe I'll try the rivalmance when I play an evil character, but I'd probably feel too bad. xD

You don't have to be evil to piss him off, just joke around at every opportunity and challenge all his beliefs. The -2 conversation isn't about the Watcher and Aloth hating each other, it's more complicated than that. And awesome.

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You don't have to be evil to piss him off, just joke around at every opportunity and challenge all his beliefs. The -2 conversation isn't about the Watcher and Aloth hating each other, it's more complicated than that. And awesome.

 

Yeah I know. My first char pissed him off just by cracking jokes with Tekehu.

I kinda do have to make an evil character to have the remotest hope of rivalmancing him though, cos I compulsively want to be liked by him (but not to the extent of completely butchering my character's personality xD), so I have to make a weird character to pull it off. Anyway, I made a Bleak Walker Death Godlike corpse eater and Aloth gave him the "ur 2 traditional m8" speach on the boat from Port Maje, and that after only having got one visible grump face from Aloth beforehand. Now I'm sure there are various ways to describe his behaviour at that point, but "traditional" would not be the first one to spring to mind xD I also find it kind of odd that a pro Leaden Key Aloth would still be anti tradition, and / or that they didn't really think through his dispositions since they are not black/white.

 

At least its not DAI where the options are so not transparent that your character comes of as borderline psychotic.

 

Solas greatly disapproves. Seriously though, I think DAI makes a bit more sense as you don't get the companions judging you for crap of no consequence you say to others, which isn't to say the system there doesn't drive me nuts at times lol. It's also easier in DA because you always play someone new so you have a clean slate. I'd find Aloth a lot easier to cope with if he wasn't someone my Watcher already knew, when in P1 you never felt like he hated you for cracking jokes and when due to your history with him, he potentially has every reason to like you and none to be a judgy git that constantly drops snide remarks and whose opinions of others seem to lack intelligence, flexibility, insight and self control (hating / liking people for superficial / dubious traits, judging others harshly for things he does himself). It seems in Deadfire they hadn't taken into consideration that different playthroughs could have a Watcher with very different relationships with Aloth and took the default of your Watcher having kept him around, but that they exist in a state of mutual distrust.  In my first pt, he even said something to the effect of that the Watcher just uses people, which was a lovely case of projection considering that Watcher (and all my other p1 watchers) totally forgave Aloth for his duplicity and supported him in every way, and my feeling was that they shared a mutual and deep friendship as a result of what they went through together.

 

 

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Aloth felt like the odd one out to me. Doesn’t really seem to have a vested interest in what’s going on. Probably shouldn’t have made the cut.

 

Yeah well, Eder doesn't really fit either, but at least he's still his old self, unless you are an a$$hole, in which case he's all surprised about it lol. Pallegina wasn't necessary either tbh. Aloth being in the game was a major selling point to me, but in the end he was the game's greatest disappointment. It feels, as you say, like he was just thrown in, and to make matters worse, turned from shy and opaque but loveable weirdo into an obnoxious git that controls you via their superficial approval/disapproval of other characters and unimportant stuff, while putting on this great show about not liking bossy.

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