RE: Ending, Berath's Herald, Lack of Consequence with the Gods

[Nixl]

I just finished PoE2, and did anyone else find the interactions with the other gods to be toothless and without much consequence?  I searched the forum for this type of topic, but I did not find one devoted to just the god interactions.  

 

Specifically, I sided with Eothas and openly disobeyed Berath with no consequences.  I expected Berath or the other gods would send monsters/fanatics to punish me, but all they did was shrug it off.  In contrast, when you arrive at Neketaka Berath was able to assert control and force you to reveal the spirits to the dock master.  I never encountered a similar scripted event after that point.  Was Berath able to do that the entire time, and if so, why did she and the other gods become so passive?  Consequently, those scenes with the gods felt like pointless filler.  

 

At Urkaizo, Eothas stated that he had freed me from Berath's control, but what control?  Was this meant to be a plot point?

 

Truthfully, I wanted to run into an Effigy of Skaen, but again, I found no consequence to openly disrespecting the gods.  It seemed like a missed opportunity  

Edited May 21, 2018 by Nixl

[E.RedMark]

I can't answer everything...

 

but the one about 'Berath control''..it has to do when you start the game . Once you choose your save , Berath put some kind of a geas on you , and say you are her Herald . And I'm guessing that's how she does that scene with the ghost....cose even if I choose any other reply..she force that one . 

[Slotharingia]

I pledged to Hylea in 1 and then did what Wael wanted. She ruined my ship with bird sht. Other than that, you seem to be able to do what you want. I don't get why they have to have the Watcher run after Eothas and try to stop him anyway. Can't they do it themselves?

Edited May 21, 2018 by Slotharingia

[E.RedMark]

I pledged to Hylea in 1 and then did what Wael wanted. She ruined my ship with bird sht. Other than that, you seem to be able to do what you want. I don't get why they have to have the Watcher run after Eothas and try to stop him anyway. Can't they do it themsalves?

if using power require them to later having to eat soul to get back to normal...and if they fail and Eotha break the wheel...

 

well..thats like ending with limited ration and too many hungry . 

[Teacher]

I pledged to Hylea in 1 and then did what Wael wanted. She ruined my ship with bird sht. Other than that, you seem to be able to do what you want. I don't get why they have to have the Watcher run after Eothas and try to stop him anyway. Can't they do it themsalves?

 

They try pretty hard at Ashen Maw but it just doesn't work against Eothas. What makes the Watcher special is that Eothas is actually listening to us. I mean not everything we say but he considers our word at least. Gods are probably trying to take advantage of that, not piss us off too much and influence us so we can influence Eothas. That's the feeling I got.

[E.RedMark]

 

I pledged to Hylea in 1 and then did what Wael wanted. She ruined my ship with bird sht. Other than that, you seem to be able to do what you want. I don't get why they have to have the Watcher run after Eothas and try to stop him anyway. Can't they do it themsalves?

 

They try pretty hard at Ashen Maw but it just doesn't work against Eothas. What makes the Watcher special is that Eothas is actually listening to us. I mean not everything we say but he considers our word at least. Gods are probably trying to take advantage of that, not piss us off too much and influence us so we can influence Eothas. That's the feeling I got.

 

that's the impression we get..but then the ending come and you get and do nothing . 

[Teacher]

 

 

I pledged to Hylea in 1 and then did what Wael wanted. She ruined my ship with bird sht. Other than that, you seem to be able to do what you want. I don't get why they have to have the Watcher run after Eothas and try to stop him anyway. Can't they do it themsalves?

 

They try pretty hard at Ashen Maw but it just doesn't work against Eothas. What makes the Watcher special is that Eothas is actually listening to us. I mean not everything we say but he considers our word at least. Gods are probably trying to take advantage of that, not piss us off too much and influence us so we can influence Eothas. That's the feeling I got.

 

that's the impression we get..but then the ending come and you get and do nothing . 

 

 

Yea, he still does his thing with the wheel, but at least you can push how he directs his own essence after that. I mean that's more than anyone else can do about the situation, including other gods.

 

Edit: I had him bolster animancers and create a golden age of sorts in one run, create a safe haven for souls stuck in between in another for example.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Teacher

[Wormerine]

Yes, you were kept alive by Berath's "bell". Without your soul (or majority of your soul) you would be dead. Therefore you have to chase Eothas no matter if you care or not, and you are linked to Berath - as you see throughout the game she can summon your soul at will. As you are is some way a godlike she could posses/absorb you at will. Eothas removes that link, cutting Berath's access to you. The whole thing feels buried under political scene of Deadfire. 

 

As far as not being in control: I found ending of PoE1 very effective and I was looking forward to see how will Watcher use this new found knowledge. I was hoping to look for other God's birthplaces, possibly try to kill them, or reveal their true nature to kith. Eothas actions in Deadfire killed this dilemma to me. Decision if Gods should be revealed was made by someone else - it make sense for the frenchise perspective but to me it makes the game's narrative and overall Watcher's arch much much weaker. Idealy, Deadifre's journey would continue themes of the PoE1 and allow you to make decision if world should have/know about Gods. However, if that was the case, we would ended up with multiple completely different realities. If PoE3 comes out, the state it is in, is pretty much the same, no matter what ending you got. While I can understand that decision, Deadfire narrative feels week as the result. 

There are multiple explanations throughout the game, as to why Gods can't stop Eothas. Most of all, they dropped physical bodies a while ago. Their influence over nature isn't big enough to kill Eothas' body (as you witness in Magran's Teeth). However, overall it does make gods look inept and the whole game is a journey after the guy who does his thing, and whom you can't stop. You can influence him because.... you are special for some unexplained reason. 

[Nixl]

I can't answer everything...

 

but the one about 'Berath control''..it has to do when you start the game . Once you choose your save , Berath put some kind of a geas on you , and say you are her Herald . And I'm guessing that's how she does that scene with the ghost....cose even if I choose any other reply..she force that one . 

That is what I thought, but after Neketaka docks I never saw another hint of it.  Additionally, if Berath had the geas, she never seemed to use or reference it again.   My only guess was that when Eothas returned part of your soul at Hasongo, you gained a defense, but the topic never came up again.  

 

It felt like a missed opportunity to give the gods a more proactive role in the story, whether that be in the form of Berath enforcing the geas/curse or the gods sending monsters/fanatics after you.  Honestly, who does not want to see or fight an effigy of Skaen?        

 

 

Yes, you were kept alive by Berath's "bell". Without your soul (or majority of your soul) you would be dead. Therefore you have to chase Eothas no matter if you care or not, and you are linked to Berath - as you see throughout the game she can summon your soul at will. As you are is some way a godlike she could posses/absorb you at will. Eothas removes that link, cutting Berath's access to you. The whole thing feels buried under political scene of Deadfire. 

 

As far as not being in control: I found ending of PoE1 very effective and I was looking forward to see how will Watcher use this new found knowledge. I was hoping to look for other God's birthplaces, possibly try to kill them, or reveal their true nature to kith. Eothas actions in Deadfire killed this dilemma to me. Decision if Gods should be revealed was made by someone else - it make sense for the frenchise perspective but to me it makes the game's narrative and overall Watcher's arch much much weaker. Idealy, Deadifre's journey would continue themes of the PoE1 and allow you to make decision if world should have/know about Gods. However, if that was the case, we would ended up with multiple completely different realities. If PoE3 comes out, the state it is in, is pretty much the same, no matter what ending you got. While I can understand that decision, Deadfire narrative feels week as the result. 

 

There are multiple explanations throughout the game, as to why Gods can't stop Eothas. Most of all, they dropped physical bodies a while ago. Their influence over nature isn't big enough to kill Eothas' body (as you witness in Magran's Teeth). However, overall it does make gods look inept and the whole game is a journey after the guy who does his thing, and whom you can't stop. You can influence him because.... you are special for some unexplained reason. 

I understand why the gods cannot stop Eothas directly, but I do not understand why they would let the watcher openly disobey them.  At one point they discussed absorbing all the souls of the godlike, but they cannot mobilize fanatics to punish the watcher?  Those scenes just came off as toothless.  

 

I enjoyed how the story handled the relationship with Berath in the beginning, it just seemed to drop off.  I figured Eothas did something to shield you from Berath, but Berath never acknowledges it if I recall correctly.    

 

The game did a good job with choices and consequences up until the player can openly disobeying the gods with no consequences (with some exceptions).  I just expected an additional fight to result.     

Edited May 21, 2018 by Nixl

[Slotharingia]

 

I pledged to Hylea in 1 and then did what Wael wanted. She ruined my ship with bird sht. Other than that, you seem to be able to do what you want. I don't get why they have to have the Watcher run after Eothas and try to stop him anyway. Can't they do it themsalves?

 

They try pretty hard at Ashen Maw but it just doesn't work against Eothas. What makes the Watcher special is that Eothas is actually listening to us. I mean not everything we say but he considers our word at least. Gods are probably trying to take advantage of that, not piss us off too much and influence us so we can influence Eothas. That's the feeling I got.

 

That's only Magran though, isn't it? And she says something like she's gonna kill the watcher while doing it. They suck as gods if the lot of them together can't stop one guy and they need to manipulate a crappy mortal to do it. In the end they unintentionally prove what Eothas is trying to prove, i.e. that the gods are pointless and kith can do without them, at least that's what I thought he meant.

[Teacher]

 

 

I pledged to Hylea in 1 and then did what Wael wanted. She ruined my ship with bird sht. Other than that, you seem to be able to do what you want. I don't get why they have to have the Watcher run after Eothas and try to stop him anyway. Can't they do it themsalves?

 

They try pretty hard at Ashen Maw but it just doesn't work against Eothas. What makes the Watcher special is that Eothas is actually listening to us. I mean not everything we say but he considers our word at least. Gods are probably trying to take advantage of that, not piss us off too much and influence us so we can influence Eothas. That's the feeling I got.

 

That's only Magran though, isn't it? And she says something like she's gonna kill the watcher while doing it. They suck as gods if the lot of them together can't stop one guy and they need to manipulate a crappy mortal to do it. In the end they unintentionally prove what Eothas is trying to prove, i.e. that the gods are pointless and kith can do without them, at least that's what I thought he meant.

 

 

Magran starts it with the eruption. Then Ondra sends in the waves. I don't think anyone else joins in since they are divided on what to do with him, if I remember right.

 

Edit: I think he had a Kraken hanging off his shoulder after the waves in the description, which was pretty funny to me :D

Edited May 21, 2018 by Teacher

[E.RedMark]

 

I can't answer everything...

 

but the one about 'Berath control''..it has to do when you start the game . Once you choose your save , Berath put some kind of a geas on you , and say you are her Herald . And I'm guessing that's how she does that scene with the ghost....cose even if I choose any other reply..she force that one . 

That is what I thought, but after Neketaka docks I never saw another hint of it.  Additionally, if Berath had the geas, she never seemed to use or reference it again.   My only guess was that when Eothas returned part of your soul at Hasongo, you gained a defense, but the topic never came up again.  

 

It felt like a missed opportunity to give the gods a more proactive role in the story, whether that be in the form of Berath enforcing the geas/curse or the gods sending monsters/fanatics after you.  Honestly, who does not want to see or fight an effigy of Skaen?        

 

man...everyone want a piece of Skaen......I almost feel bad for him 

 

Have you tried picking reply (during the talk with the Gods) that are butthurt like..see if they zap you? Just curious...

 

yeah it's . Seem like they are building this stuff for a POE3..and hopefully there will be one . 

[Nixl]

 

 

Magran starts it with the eruption. Then Ondra sends in the waves. I don't think anyone else joins in since they are divided on what to do with him, if I remember right.

 

Edit: I think he had a Kraken hanging off his shoulder after the waves in the description, which was pretty funny to me :D

 

The scene where Eothas emerged from the volcano only to find a barren sea floor and a massive tsunami was one of my favorite parts.  That felt like a struggle between gods.  I just wished there was more of that in the actual game and not CYOA panels.  

Edited May 21, 2018 by Nixl

[morhilane]

 

 

 

I pledged to Hylea in 1 and then did what Wael wanted. She ruined my ship with bird sht. Other than that, you seem to be able to do what you want. I don't get why they have to have the Watcher run after Eothas and try to stop him anyway. Can't they do it themsalves?

 

They try pretty hard at Ashen Maw but it just doesn't work against Eothas. What makes the Watcher special is that Eothas is actually listening to us. I mean not everything we say but he considers our word at least. Gods are probably trying to take advantage of that, not piss us off too much and influence us so we can influence Eothas. That's the feeling I got.

 

That's only Magran though, isn't it? And she says something like she's gonna kill the watcher while doing it. They suck as gods if the lot of them together can't stop one guy and they need to manipulate a crappy mortal to do it. In the end they unintentionally prove what Eothas is trying to prove, i.e. that the gods are pointless and kith can do without them, at least that's what I thought he meant.

 

 

Magran starts it with the eruption. Then Ondra sends in the waves. I don't think anyone else joins in since they are divided on what to do with him, if I remember right.

 

Edit: I think he had a Kraken hanging off his shoulder after the waves in the description, which was pretty funny to me :D

 

Only Magran (volcano) and Ondra (the sea and its beasts) have powers where Eothas was, unless you think a flock of birds would have succeeded there...

 

Galawain's domain is over the land. Abydon, Wael, Woedica, Skaen and Berath do not control forces of nature. Rymrgand support Eothas. That's why Hylea complains they left their bodies behind and Magran suggested siphoning their godlikes to power up but it was too late for that.

 

Also, Berath mention that Eothas used their blind spot against them. Although, I'm starting to think that Berath is/was in cahoot with Eothas...but that's another story.

[Voss]

That doesn't really make any sense. If Berath was in cahoots with Eothas, her best option is to do nothing.

 

Granted that's exactly the same as what she did, but that's a problem with the story, not a plot point.

 

Personally I want to see the rationale as to why the statue is immune to explosions and lava. Or even cannons. It was hand-carved by people, it isn't indestructible.

[Slotharingia]

That doesn't really make any sense. If Berath was in cahoots with Eothas, her best option is to do nothing.

 

Granted that's exactly the same as what she did, but that's a problem with the story, not a plot point.

 

Personally I want to see the rationale as to why the statue is immune to explosions and lava. Or even cannons. It was hand-carved by people, it isn't indestructible.

Also, why can't the other gods use adra then? I kinda don't buy they are more reluctant to waste kith souls than Eothas is. Isn't Hylea also goddess of all creatures of the sky, inlcuding dragons? And there are hints at mutated mammoth sea beasts that have something to do with Galawain at some point (which was under water).

 

The main issue I have with opaque story lines, is that the vast majority of people will just think - wtf -. One can create complex stories that still make sense, and to me a bunch of gods that need a crummy mortal to stop one of them from doing something they think is terrible is at best describing how useless the gods are, and at worse nonsense. 

[morhilane]

That doesn't really make any sense. If Berath was in cahoots with Eothas, her best option is to do nothing.

 

Granted that's exactly the same as what she did, but that's a problem with the story, not a plot point.

 

If you want to believe the story is badly written because you want it to be badly written, go ahead. I won't stop you.

 

But I have no problem to theorize that Berath sent the Watcher to talk to Eothas to placate the other gods from doing something early and make sure they don't have enough time to stop Eothas in the end. Rymrgand knew what Eothas was trying to do. Rymrgand only "ally" among the gods is Berath. Eothas plans was to destroy Berath's Wheel. Berath's reaction is *shrug*. If you pick the "power up a god" ending Eothas power up Berath.

 

Berath has an amazing poker face too.

[E.RedMark]

 

 

hat doesn't really make any sense. If Berath was in cahoots with Eothas, her best option is to do nothing.

not nothing...keeping the others gods from doing something would be the best way to help Eotha and convince them that the watcher will do something . 

[Guest]

That doesn't really make any sense. If Berath was in cahoots with Eothas, her best option is to do nothing.

 

Granted that's exactly the same as what she did, but that's a problem with the story, not a plot point.

 

Personally I want to see the rationale as to why the statue is immune to explosions and lava. Or even cannons. It was hand-carved by people, it isn't indestructible.

In order to be in "cahoots" you must first know what the other person is up to. The entire plot of the game is finding out what that is. So the argument is, "once Berath knew what Eothas was doing, she may have kinda sorta agreed with him". If he was doing something else, she might not have.

 

The statue of Maros Nua was carved out of adra. The titan that Eothas inhabits is luminous adra. At several points throughout the game, it is explained to us that this is a miracle substance. Finally, "non flammable" and "waterproof" isn't the same thing as indestructible; as evidenced by the fact that it is, indeed, partially destroyed at the end of the game.

[Nixl]

 

That doesn't really make any sense. If Berath was in cahoots with Eothas, her best option is to do nothing.

 

Granted that's exactly the same as what she did, but that's a problem with the story, not a plot point.

 

If you want to believe the story is badly written because you want it to be badly written, go ahead. I won't stop you.

 

But I have no problem to theorize that Berath sent the Watcher to talk to Eothas to placate the other gods from doing something early and make sure they don't have enough time to stop Eothas in the end. Rymrgand knew what Eothas was trying to do. Rymrgand only "ally" among the gods is Berath. Eothas plans was to destroy Berath's Wheel. Berath's reaction is *shrug*. If you pick the "power up a god" ending Eothas power up Berath.

 

Berath has an amazing poker face too.

 

That is a distinct possibility, as with the other gods becoming convinced over time, but I did not observe a firm reaction either way.  The gods just seemed to shrug it off, even when I borderline insulted them.   

[E.RedMark]

 

That doesn't really make any sense. If Berath was in cahoots with Eothas, her best option is to do nothing.

 

Granted that's exactly the same as what she did, but that's a problem with the story, not a plot point.

 

If you want to believe the story is badly written because you want it to be badly written, go ahead. I won't stop you.

 

But I have no problem to theorize that Berath sent the Watcher to talk to Eothas to placate the other gods from doing something early and make sure they don't have enough time to stop Eothas in the end. Rymrgand knew what Eothas was trying to do. Rymrgand only "ally" among the gods is Berath. Eothas plans was to destroy Berath's Wheel. Berath's reaction is *shrug*. If you pick the "power up a god" ending Eothas power up Berath.

 

Berath has an amazing poker face too.

 

question: Does urging the Gods to do something during those meeting with them...does Berath say anything? 

[morhilane]

question: Does urging the Gods to do something during those meeting with them...does Berath say anything? 

 

You mean, the Watcher telling them to do something? I haven't picked those options outside the one where Woedica gets pissed at you for insulting her and she goes for the kill...but Berath looks at her and she stop midway and then the discussion shift to someone else.

 

Berath doesn't participate much in the "what can we do" discussions from what I remember, she mostly says "it's too late for that now" and "the Watcher is our best option".

[E.RedMark]

 

question: Does urging the Gods to do something during those meeting with them...does Berath say anything? 

 

You mean, the Watcher telling them to do something? I haven't picked those options outside the one where Woedica gets pissed at you for insulting her and she goes for the kill...but Berath looks at her and she stop midway and then the discussion shift to someone else.

 

Berath doesn't participate much in the "what can we do" discussions from what I remember, she mostly says "it's too late for that now" and "the Watcher is our best option".

 

you should test it..

 

right now you are mah best walking talking Library on Berath...pretty plz with cherry on top! 

[Wormerine]

And there are hints at mutated mammoth sea beasts that have something to do with Galawain at some point (which was under water).

 

Turns out that gods didn’t reach the stretch goal either.

[morhilane]

 

 

question: Does urging the Gods to do something during those meeting with them...does Berath say anything? 

 

You mean, the Watcher telling them to do something? I haven't picked those options outside the one where Woedica gets pissed at you for insulting her and she goes for the kill...but Berath looks at her and she stop midway and then the discussion shift to someone else.

 

Berath doesn't participate much in the "what can we do" discussions from what I remember, she mostly says "it's too late for that now" and "the Watcher is our best option".

 

you should test it..

 

right now you are mah best walking talking Library on Berath...pretty plz with cherry on top! 

 

I'm waiting for another patch before replaying...

 

and thanks, I think. I just love the lore and Berath (and Magran and Hylea, the other gods can die though).