Plano Skywalker

Star Wars is supposed to be 2-dimensional. It is the knight in shining armor against the brigands. It is truth against lies, etc. KOTOR I LS fits into this mold quite well. KOTOR II went into areas best left to Star Trek, IMO. That is not to say I did not like it. I LOVED IT! However, I think that some of the dissatisfaction out there is that it is geared more to a 40-year-old with a Master's degree and not to a 17-year-old's mindset. KOTOR III needs to be geared to the 17-year-old. It can be immersive and story-driven but it needs to be more straightforward, IMO. However, as long as we have one, 40-hour game that allows both a light and dark path, there is going to be a certain amount of convolutedness. There is no way around that. BTW, I want "Chris" to do KOTOR III. He is the consumate storyteller.

Right, I would like to see NPC-to-NPC interactions that are both on and off the ship and that are a combination of level-based and geography-based. Influence really should not come into play except regarding their interaction with the PC, IMO. As to NPC side quests, there really do not seem to be many true NPC side quests in KOTOR II. They did a really good job of giving everyone (or almost everyone) in your party a mandatory appearance in certain scenarios (i.e. ), but not much akin to the NPC sidequests in KOTOR I. In KOTOR I, the NPC sidequests were, just that, totally optional diversions that often had NOTHING to do with the main story. I would like to see some of that in the next installment.

Right, I thought the Ebon Hawk conversations made up for it too but, I agree, it would be nice to have both. I really got a kick out of Canderous and Bastila arguing in KOTOR I outside the ship. I like the influence system. Yes, it needs to be fixed in some ways but it was a great idea. There seems to be a fair amount of the NPCs initiating conversations with the PC outside the ship but they don't talk to each other as much (if at all) outside the ship. I also like the idea of "trigger zones" such as outside the bar in Nar Shadaa where you get a mind message from Kreia about the Force. This also happens to be a great place to try to recruit a certain Jedi candidate....GOOD STUFF.

the "amnesia" thing and its cousin, the "war veteran who is a bit rusty" routine is a shortcut device. It allows them to write 2 games (LS and DS) with only 40 hours of content. Unless we end up with 2 shrinkwraps, I suspect we will see something like that in KOTOR III...alas!

I agree, if I had to wait 3 years for a new engine or 1 year for the same engine, I'd rather wait the one year (provided they did a REALLY good job with the story). The storyline is so unresolved right now that I want them to put all their creativeness into that and then, in a new RPG (whether they call it KOTOR or not), we can have the eye candy, stereo sound, really good AI, etc. However, I am wondering if they are not already working on a new KOTOR engine for the next version of the Xbox. Remember, while this is not an Xbox-exclusive title, it has always been associated as the Xbox RPG and having this as a major title for the next Xbox would make alot of sense. I suspect that *someone* is developing the new Xbox engine for it even as we speak.

Well, yes, the story is the main focus but giving the PC options, REAL OPTIONS, is what makes the difference between an RPG and an action game or FPS. By having more options, such as who stays on your ship, you help write the story and not just follow the story. In Balder's Gate Dark Alliance, you followed the story. It did not matter what you said or what your attitude was, you ended up dealing with the same people and accomplishing that same objective. That is what happens in a linear action game. That is not what is supposed to happen in an RPG. There is certainly a balance here: I do not want the KOTOR games to end up like Morrowind (though I like those kinds of games too). There is nothing wrong with the story going in a certain direction but my point is that a Jedi Consular does not take the same path as a Sith Lord, they do not have the same mentor, they do not hang out with the same people, and they should not end up in the same place. AND....THEY ARE NOT BOTH TRYING TO DEFEAT THE SITH!

I think it would be easier to deal with in 2 different games. In other words, we really need to wrap up both Revan and Exile's story. I like the idea of having Exile as your mentor in the LS version and having Revan as your mentor in the DS version. If you have the LS shrinkwrap, Revan is alluded to and wrapped up in conversation. If you have the DS shrinkwrap, Exile is alluded to and wrapped up in conversation.

exactly, when you get to the same place whether you are Sir Galahad or Satan incarnate, I think we have something that is starting to wear a little thin. again, Bioware and Obsidian did a really good job with this formula but it will only go so far IMO.

nice try. I take it you like the same story with 2 different wrappers? do you play KOTOR games?

I personally think there should be two different versions of KOTOR III: http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?sh...=0entry310747

I remember one of the mantras when KOTOR I came out was that you get twice the content because of the ability to play both dark side and light side. Well, this is true to a point. But much of the content is the same or altered only slightly. I have to say that the stories have done a decent job of working whether you are dark side or light. But this has also created the need for a major "twist" in the story (i.e. the amnesiac in KOTOR I, the "echo" in KOTOR II). I like the non-linear, enigmatic presentation style in KOTOR II but I personally want to see the stories themselves be a little more straightforward. This could be done, I believe, by having two different games: KOTOR III blue and KOTOR III red. That way, the LS guy has 40 hours of content that are, for the most part, quite a bit different than the 40 hours of content that the DS guy has. I normally play LS males. I just got finished playing KOTOR II as DS just to see the differences. The differences worked but they were, essentially, only cosmetic differences. They had to do it that way because it is the same game using the same "twist" to move it along. Would it not make sense to have a much different experience if you are DS than if you are light? For instance, I like the idea of starting out as a padawan apprenticed to the Exile (who is trying to rebuild the Jedi Council). But DS players might not like that. Understood. By the same token, if you are DS, you still have to fight the Sith in the two games we already have. Why? Because the "Sith" are the antagonist. Would it not be better for the DS guy to have the Republic/Jedi as the antagonist? Would it not make sense for DS to be able to cooperate with the Sith if he/she wants? These kinds of stories would be tight and allow for all kinds of intrigue but they are two seperate games and would have to be sold as such. The only way you are going to get 80-100 hours of content is to buy two seperate shrinkwraps. And I would be in favor of that. I would buy the LS copy and rent the DS copy. Oh, yes, I'm an Xboxer.

Have you ever thought about that? The Protagonist is, of course, the Exile. But who (or what) is the Antagonist in this story? Wow, you talk about a thinking-man's plot, that is what this is! This is not the Lone Ranger in space the way KOTOR I was. This is more like a college debate team meets Star Wars. It is easier to tell a story if you already know the choices that someone has made. But now that a rich background has been set for the KOTOR franchise, I'm hoping they will not use this technique in the next installment. No more, "General, I did because you told me to" stuff. Again, it works, but I think it would be nice to start off next time without any of that. It will be interesting to see what they will do with the True Sith. Nothing wrong with having an antagonist that is not the basic megalomaniac like Darth Malak was in KOTOR I. But we need something a little more straightforward than what we got in KOTOR II. The story was fine but it was convoluted. I would like to see mystery, yes, but a clear-cut distinction between protagonist and antagonist and the ability to customize my party. If I think someone is about to betray me, I want that person off my ship. Basically, I like the "non-linear" presentation of KOTOR II but I want a more "traditional" kind of story.

here are my thoughts on KOTOR III worlds: http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?sh...pic=31396&st=75

BEGINNING WORLD (assuming we have a new protagonist): **Your planet** (at the beginning of the game, you choose your homeworld from a list of about 5 options) --there would be some introductory stuff here, somewhat like Peragus in that sense. for instance, the list might include: Telos, Taris, Manaan, Dantooine, Tatooine. TRANSITIONAL WORLD (this is where the story takes over but the game has not totally opened up yet) **Coruscant** --alot of cutscreens and sights to see. I agree with D Nuke, it would be nice to address the Senate! WORLDS THAT HAVE THE CLUES (you need 4 clues but you have to look in up to 8 places to find them): **Korriban** --you didn't know that there are catacombs that connect all the tombs and also connect the Valley of the Dark Lords to another part of the planet. Here, we have some serious dungeon crawl. **Mandalore (or Dxun)** --the Mandalorians will, undoubtedly, play a big part of the endgame. No reason not to have an excuse to chat with Canderous before you really need him. **Alderaan** --the movies mention it but most casual fans of SW know nothing about it. Let's find out about this world. (Ithor could substitute here, I guess.) **Yavin4** (this is a moon...Yavin itself is a big, red ball of gas) --alot of Sith history here and alot of sites to see (it would also be nice to be able to trade with the Rodian in the orbital space station again.) **Onderon** --you are not finished with the Queen yet. She has other missions for you and she provides help in the endgame. **Ziost** --the main Sith world in Known Space. 'nuff said. **Stennis OR Korus Major OR another EU world** **Nar Shadaa** --We need a true urban center in the middle game, IMO. We've already seen the slums. Perhaps now we could see the capital city. ENDGAME WORLDS **3 Worlds from the Unknown Regions** --All 3 could be of the True Sith or possibly only 2 would be Sith. **Droid World/HK Factory** --need an army to fight the Sith? ALSO: --depending on the story, the endgame may end up being a massive invasion of the Core Worlds. (but I suspect most of that would be in space.)

Why the association between Nar Shadda and Coruscant? You believe that they would just use the same basic layout? FIRST, if they do Coruscant, they need to go all out with it. If they are not prepared to do that, then maybe they should use a different Core World. SECOND, I really liked Nar Shadda. No, I would not want to live there but it was a very immersive and believable place and one of my favorite maps in KOTOR II.

well, one would hope that LA would take storyline ownership of it.

the best way to deal with Revan is to have Revan's Force Ghost appear late in the game, with the mask on and speaking a *ghostly* manner. But, indeed, they are going to have to carve ALOT in stone because there is so much that needs to be settled and so much that is needed to jumpstart a new protagonist (which we will probably see).

AGREE 100%. You have to get 4 clues but there are 8 planets that might have the clues and it changes every time. Of course, even if you end up on a planet that does not have a MAIN STORYLINE CLUE, there are plenty of side quests/faction quests and unique merchants there so that it is not a wasted trip. And then, of course, there could be a few mandatory worlds (such as the Unknown World in the first one) that you go to when it is time to go to.

Those are also very good ideas. Surely, this kind of stuff must have been talked about. I'm thinking this could be the reason they did not give it a "tighter" ending: such an ending would have suggested that the Exile will continue to be the protagonist and perhaps that is not going to be the case. Chances are, they already had some basic idea of where KOTOR III was going before they even started on KOTOR II. But man, what we ended up with is 2 uber protagonists with shadowy pasts and no real resolution to their stories. If they do it right, I can see KOTOR III being a grand slam but they are going to have to work for it. And we need EVERYTHING wrapped up, including who is behind the HK factory, etc.

#1 #2 Those two changes would not have added very many hours to the development time and, I believe, they would have allowed people to have some sense of what is to come (even if KOTOR III did not really go in that direction). With those two tweakings, we would not have half as much whining about the ending as we do now, IMO. Plano

true, and while I can see people getting upset with a locked in Revan identity, I doubt many would get upset with a locked in Exile identity. There you have it: whatever you say Revan is, the Exile has the same alignment and gender.

actually, it really would not be that tacky to choose Revan's alignment and gender early on in KOTOR III through a dialog string with someone. IT WOULD BE TACKY to choose both Revan and Exile's alignments and genders early one. That is another reason to have Exile as protagonist of KOTOR III. Revan does not have to emerge as a Jedi hero, only as a Republic hero.

FACT 1: The Star Wars license is the most abused license in the gaming industry. FACT 2: When KOTOR I came out, it set a new bar of excellence for this franchise. FACT 3: KOTOR II would have easily met that expectation if it had not been rushed to the market (yes, Obsidian can do story and gameplay development). FACT 4: I own both games. While KOTOR I has a more satisfying ending and less technical glitches, I find myself drawn to replay KOTOR II more than to replay KOTOR I. You have to admit, KOTOR I was good but it was also "cookie cutter" in many ways. KOTOR II has a very enigmatic, immersive feel which I like.

basically, there should be two distinct paths. I agree with that. since only the LS path is going to be "canon" anyway, they could do anything they want with the DS path. Light Side: Exile goes in search for Revan. Ends up with Revan as a mentor. Revan tells him everthing that he needs to know to defeat the true threat. Revan eventually gets killed while travelling with you in Unknown Space. You end up with a new mentor (i.e. the spirit of a dead master). Multithreaded endgame with some old faces (like Jolee and Canderous) commanding parties of their own. Dark Side: Exile goes in search for Revan. Ends up with Revan as his Sith Master. Revan tells him everthing that he needs to know to defeat the True Sith leadership and take their place. Once you and Revan topple the leadership, you challenge Revan for supremacy.

Ultimately, it was kind of cheating IMO to make the protagonist someone who is already a living legend in both KOTOR I and II. After this "trilogy" is complete, I hope they TOTALLY open up the PC's identity in future RPGs of this type. However, because of the cliffhanger we are in right now, I think the most satisfying way to do it would be to have Exile as the protagonist of KOTOR III.