Plano Skywalker

the person asking the question was just a consumer like you and I. the person answering the question is supposed to be an insider of the gaming business.

Actually, you might be right there. Jade Empire is an RPG with really good action. There is no reason they could not use the Ep III engine for an RPG. There are certain things (like dialogue trees) that would have to be added but it could certainly be done. And since it appears that BioWare and Obsidian are not going to do it, why not have the Collective do it?

This is the way I see it: * this is going to start off as a next-gen console title. * there has been a strict non-disclosure agreement for these titles (as least in the recent past). * under such circumstances, it is best to leak out information to reputable gaming industry personalities like the Hedgehog. * Leaked information IS reliable in the sense that it was true at the time it was leaked. However, leaking allows you to change course in midstream and have plausible deniability. * there is no doubt in my mind that the Hedgehog is reporting leaked information...information that was leaked on purpose. Hopefully, we will get SOMETHING from E3 on this. That will also help keep Hedgehog's credibility intact.

so, perhaps you are wondering why Kreia feels the way she does when there is no proof that this is right (at least not in the game)?

well, I'll skip the bit about morality as that is not what you had intended this thread to be about. as far as free will goes, this reminds me of the Calvinist/Armenian debate within Christianity. Of course, this deals primarily with Christian soteriology but many of the same arguments would apply. you mentioned the analogy of the blood cell. here is another one: "you are a goldfish swimming in an aquarium. I own the aquarium and I decide to move the aquarium to my other house; while the aquarium is being transported, YOU have choices about where you want to go but the ultimate destination is in my hands not yours" I think that is about as good of an illustration of a "high predestinarian" view as you are going to get and I think it would apply to Kreia's view of the Force as having such a determinative will. I'm not sure this was used to patch up a weak story, however. I think the story was largely about such things.

I was just browsing through the BioWare forums and saw a recent dev post that pretty much indicates that BioWare is not going to do it. Anything is possible, I guess, but I think it is going to someone new. One wonders about the fact that once someone completes a LA project, they don't want another one even though there is plenty of money to be made. This really only points to one thing: LA is hard to work with on these projects. Hopefully that will change.

ah, I didn't mean to steal your thunder man. Next time you get a piece of *good* gossip like that, you might want to make it a thread instead of burying it. lol.

well, of all the insider rumors that I've seen, this one has the most credibility to it, IMO.

right, and what platform? my hunch is that it will start out as an Xbox 360 exclusive and then a port several months later.

well, since alot of us are wondering if it is even going to happen at all, I thought this might be encouraging. And it is also good news for Obsidian since many of us will be spamming another deveoloper's forums soon with our KOTOR III ideas.

http://www.gamedreamz.com/forum/showthread...21396#post21396

"The Force is based on what George Lucas believes about good and evil, not Christianity, even though his view may have been based on his own vague understanding of the pseudo-christian values he grew up with. To say that the "The Force is Judeo-Christian", is not true. Maybe I misunderstood your argument, if so, please explain." I take it that this thread is really asking "What is the Force?" moreso than "deus ex machina". Anyway, not to get into semantics.... I have heard that there are so many self-identified "Force" religionists now in the UK that the British government now considers "The Force" as an officially-recongized religion. I can assure you that that is not was George Lucas had in mind. He is obviously, though, very much influenced by Tolkien and, for lack of a better term, "medieval magic". Have you ever seen Willow (a Lucas film)? The chief wizard of the small people says "magic is the lifeblood of the universe". Hmmm, sounds alot like "the Force is the lifeblood of the universe". Also, I would refer interested parties to the movie Excalibur and Merlin's teaching about "the Dragon"...."it is EVERYWHERE it is EVERYTHING if you were to look on its entirety, it would BURN YOU TO CINDERS" (paraphrased there). Folks, this is PANTHEISM. This is essentially what Wiccans believe. Pantheists do not believe, as monotheists do, that God is seperate from creation. Nor do they believe as polytheists do that there are many gods, each with their own essences. Whenever you hear someone say that "Odin is just an aspect of...." or "Jesus is just an aspect of...", then you are talking to a pantheist. Now, the Force is PANTHEISM WITH A VICTORIAN MORALITY wrapped around it. That is why, IMO, so many Christians consider the Force to be based on Christian theology.

The GALAXY is at peace but there could still be planets or entire systems that are at war. It is your job to help end the crisis so that it does not escalate. I, personally, would love this kind of scenario.

CORRECTION: about Exar Kun and THE SITH WAR. However, the Mandalorian Wars could also be done as a trilogy.

I don't know if this has already been discussed but I remember Kreia talking to Mandalore on Dxun and she stated something to the effect of "he betrayed you". If you stated that Revan was female, Kreia tells Mandalore "she betrayed you". Then, Mandalore asked incredulously "how did you know that?" It is obvious that Revan "betrayed" Canderous. But how? And when? Surely, it must have been before KOTOR I. And it really would not have made sense to betray him during the Jedi Civil War. So, it would seem that it had to have been before or during the Mandalorian Wars. Perhaps it was Revan who goaded the Mandalorians into attacking the Republic and not the True Sith? Perhaps Revan was a puppet of the True Sith at that time. There was also mention (I believe on KOTOR II's loading screens) that Malachor V was a very superstitious place for Maldalorians and that Revan used that to his advantage against them. I think it was Revan who approached the Mandalorians and asked them to go to war.

I don't know that a developer would but I can think of a publisher who might.

We also have to remember that KOTOR is a time period--not just an epic story about Revan and the . In theory, this thing could go on indefinitely (without changing time periods). I personally would like to see future games in this order: KOTOR III (we definitely need to wrap up the story we are in) KOTOR 4,5, and 6 (these games take place in a time of peace, not war...here, you are basically running errands for the Council and advancing in rank, etc...you are doind what Jedi normally do....but this is not Jedi Knight, this is dialogue-heavy and story-driven) KOTOR 7,8, and 9 (this is a "prequel" trilogy about Exan Kun and the Mandalorian Wars) then, I wouldn't mind seeing KOTNR.

some of those like where kreia is born and whether or not she had a force sensitive parent and her mentor are completely pointless. it has no effect on you whatsoever. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> the bottom line is that this was a media tie-in cliffhanger that gave us no real resolution. IMO, that is fine. But Kreia is the principle antagonist here (even though this tale only nominally ties into the trilogy) and getting to know more about her and her 2 dark lords pupils would have made the cliffhanger easier to take. That is all I am suggesting.

I remember some early interviews and the devs basically said that they originally thought that KOTOR II was going to be faster that the first one. However, by adding alot of new features (combat scripts, lightsaber forms, etc), they ended up with a game that was a bit slower than the first. Anyway, I remember something to that effect. With regard to problems with movies, etc, most of that is coming from the PC side of the house. I have an Xbox and did not experience any showstoppers at all. Perhaps they rushed the port-over job.

I agree, if we get a newbie, no more "conflicted past" or "hidden past". However, they could have someone who knew the Exile in the war. This would provide a tie-in. I am not suggesting that they use this as a shortcut storytelling device but only as a logical tie-in.

1) I try to imagine myself as a game designer and I cringe when I think that I have 2 uber protagonists that I have to let the user define. I suspect that at least one of those two (Revan, Exile) will become a scripted character in the next installment. There are so many advantages from a storyteller's perspective for doing it this way. 2) I agree, almost all the NPC-to-NPC discussions were on the Ebon Hawk. I would like to see some outside the ship. The problem with influence was that you SHOULD NOT have to influence someone to get main story clues and triggers...influence should be all about side quests and more opportunities for training and (fluff) dialog.

Haven't they painted themselves into a corner with this? Basically, all they would have to do is explain that there are still Massassi living in the old Sith worlds and that Jedi outcasts have been going there in recent times and trying to get them to become expansionist again. It wouldn't be that hard to do but it would mess with continuity. I don't think . I think it is LA's way of telling us what is to come. After they really kill off the True Sith, they are going to have to make more of a distiction between the LS and DS paths in these games. Having an alien threat allows them to wait on that needed change.

a few things that would have helped the endgame: * you need an environment suit to walk on Malachor V (sure seemed that way to me). * Kreia tells you her real name. * Kreia tells you where she was born. * Kreia tells you that one of her parents was Force sensitive. * Kreia tells you about her Jedi mentor and how her mentor was also kicked out of the Order. * Kreia tells you all about Nihlius and Sion and how they became so freakish. * Kreia tells you about the insectoid race known as the Sith and how Korriban was just on the outer tip of that empire. * Kreia tells you what the racial Sith are doing now and why Revan felt he had to go into the Unknown Regions. * since the Ebon Hawk was lost, Kreia tells you to take her private ship off the planet. * you get a cut screen leaving Malachor V. -- almost all of this is dialog folks and it would have made the endgame MUCH more satisfying, IMO.

I agree with you there, just because we get a "newbie", the protagonist is not entirely ours. Even in Morrowind, with all the options you had available at the start and throughout the game, the bottom line is that you were released from prison on order of the Emperor and that you must deal with a guy named Casius if you want to develop the story aspect of the game. Same thing here, the story has to be about something and there has to be a really good reason why you are there. I personally like the idea that you are a padawan apprenticed to the Exile. Heck, you might have even been one of his troops in the Mandalorian Wars. The Exile should be a prominent scripted character in KOTOR III and Revan should be what he has always been: a mysterious character that gets involved in ways you least expect.

I absolutely agree about the Exile. I prefer that character too as his identity is much more customizable and it just "feels" like I have more ownership of him. With regard to the Xbox, I know what you mean. I think part of what allowed KOTOR to exist in the first place is that M$oft needed a really good title that was not a sports game or a FPS. Heck, we still don't know definitively whether the next-gen Xbox is going to be backwards compatible. So, unfortunately, KOTOR III probably will start out as a next-gen exclusive (whether it is a launch title or not). The silver lining, though, for some of us, is that Jade Empire is essentially KOTOR sans the SW mythos.