Cantousent

I was laughing because of the truth of the statement.

hahahaha

The more options they put into a game, the less content they can include for each. I mean, fifty million different classes? I think the core classes and races could have been the basis for meaningful interaction. EDIT: Of course, Alan is right. Those options are grounds for meaningful interactions in custom content.

Nooo, we've gone from the game to FR canon! haha Seriously, though, the devs managed to include a ton of race, class, and gender related material. Some more than others.

Yeah, that's true. I think most folks were pretty well reassured within a couple of weeks. Sawyer made his comments at the time and then we had some folks giving opinions as to game length. That was one of the reasons I stopped agitating myself. I took the devs at their word.

I can't find any information on the first delay, but the official Atari line for the second delay in July was "Given the sheer size and scope of Neverwinter Nights 2 and its 50 to 60-hour single player campaign, it was decided to move the global release date of Neverwinter Nights 2 out a month to late October. This extra time is invaluable as it allows fine tuning and polishing of both the single and multiplayer experiences to ultimately deliver a game that exceeds the tremendous expectations of the Neverwinter Nights fanbase." <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That quote itself sounds like damage control to me. I'm not really taking sides, although I think we need a few curmudgeons every now and then to pound the table. ...And if we believe Sawyer, which I do, then Obsidian wanted to reassure us as to game length. Maybe the whole incident with the German magazine was a comment made off the cuff and attributed with too much importance. Maybe Feargus was trying to manage our expectations and it backfired. Whatever happened, the game came out with a good story delivered over a reasonable amount of time. Between Oblivion, Gothic, and NWN2, folks who prefer a longer game have reason to take heart. Don't kid yourself by thinking that game companies wouldn't rather cut expenses and make shorter games. It's only by sales and agitation that we get longer games, and I can't scorn someone like Gromnir who pounds his shoe on the table. Sure, he's a grouchy oldster with a cynical outlook. That's part of his charm as well as the biggest benefit he brings to the community. EDIT: Pardon me, cold and cold medicine have made me a little loopy. By "if we believe Sawyer, then Obsidian wanted to reassure us as to game length," my assumption is that the game was plenty long enough all along and the various comments reassuring us concerning game length are aimed at conveying that idea to the consumer.

In light of your comments, Sawyer, it seems Feargus' comments lacked discretion.

I think we should give Gromnir credit. Of course, the company cannot even acknowledge that there was any amount of pressure, let alone that it was willing to bow to it. However, we know that companies do make changes and insert content on the more vocal voices of the community. So, it's a win/win. The folks who want to think Gromnir didn't have a point at the beginning can just say, "Obsidian didn't care a whit about what folks said on the message board. Gromnir's fooling himself." Gromnir can say, "You might think so, but the only verified estimate of game length before release was Feargus' 20 hour blurb. It seems that something encouraged the company to delay release long enough to insert content." Some of that content was related to the DM client, as I understand it. I haven't had time to keep abreast of these things. What I can tell you is that creating some heat online does have an effect on the design. For that reason, I'm willing to give Gromnir some credit for generating that heat. Oh, and I'm not hung up on game length. A twenty hour game might not be such a bad thing, but I suspect that the grief on the NWN 2 boards right now would not compare to the grief we'd've seen had the game been twenty-hours long. I wouldn't hold it against the devs if the game had been a great twenty hours, but a lot of folks would. ...And that's assuming you can make an epic, broadly appealing CRPG that's so good that the mass of gamers don't resent a twenty-hour initial play time.

I'm running the game at 1600x1200 with everything bumped as far as I know. Viewing distance, shadows, etc. I guess I'll check again when I go home, but there's a photo around here of me standing next to my stack of goodies, so you know my system specs. Also, more or less established personalities should have some level of trust. My default is to believe members unless they've proved themselves to be unreliable in their statements. That's why it's important to preserve and protect your reputation for honesty on a message board. In a place where you exist only by your words, it's best to make sure folks trust them. So, the game has not crashed or exhibited any significant problem. I have seen two minor problems, however. First of all, the mouse jumps around during the game. I don't like that. Might be the mouse though. I really don't do anything other than play NWN2 on my desktop these days. The other thing is that the initial load screen takes longer than I like. Of course, I prefer instant gratification.

I never took a henchman with me in NWN1 and I simply treated every death in the packaged campaign as an excuse to reload. Folks treat death and reloading in these games differently anyhow. That's the long and short of it. I loved the death scheme in Planescape: Torment, and that was hand-crafted for the setting and main character. Ideally, we'd follow 3.5 rules, but of the CRPG choices, I would rather NWN2 follow the same scheme as IWD/2. Those games certainly seemed to work well. Resting is different. I hated resting in NWN and I still hate it in NWN2. Doesn't matter. While I don't like that aspect, I realize that it was probably the best compromise for the multi-player crowd. Since they put in some great design decisions for the single player crowd, I don't begrudge the MP/PW folks getting a little boost.

Oh, I would actually prefer a different approach to both death and resting. I've reached the philosopher's fort, and I've managed to survive a few battles. It's sad because I have to leave my beloved gaming rig now. However, I will entertain myself later by joing the NWN2 discussions. So far, so good. The usual NPC options and whatnot. I'm extremely happy with the game so far, and I suspect my happiness is directly related to some of the grief I've heard. I guess I'll get my money's worth out of the game over time instead of digesting it quickly, but there's something to be said for only getting to play in two hour chunks. It brings a little anticipation to the talbe. Things like resting and death are not the only things that make for a great game. I'm quite enjoying some of the obvious story hooks I've seen. That I can look forward to the characters and backstory is a good sign that the game brings something more than combat to the table. Of course, I like the combat also. Go figure. Maybe a little easy so far, but I'm playing a wizard, which everyone says is tougher, so maybe I've got something of a challenge ahead.

On nights when I reside with my computer, I play NWN2 as much as I can. Alas, I'm only now out of the first city, but that's not bad considering I've only been playing a couple hours. Only a little over an hour past character creation, really.

No, Vol, the NWN2 boards are much better. However, a lot of that has to do with Bioware's experience with the NWN release. One thing that's always been true of Bioware is that they learn from their past experiences. Well, that and they make great games. I wasn't a huge NWN fan, but they've really come out with great games over the past decade or so.

Actually, the NWN boards were far, far worse. I know something of this as I was in correspondence with Jay about taking on a role as a moderator at the NWN boards soon after release. I declined to join the team, which was no great loss for them, but I was quite familiar with the state of the board at that time. The fact is, customer complaints on a message has traditionally been a poor yardstick to judge the enduring success of any game. I don't mind folks complaining. It's not against the rules to make these comparisons. It is, however, simply untrue to say that the NWN2 boards have had more grief. It is factually untrue.

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Finally, for the first time in a couple of days, I'm residing with my desktop. I can play the game now! I'm only in act 1, but it's going well so far.

Irrelevant, dammit. First of all, I'm irritated that my desktop is in one place while my laptop is here. That means that my entertainment must come from discussing the game rather than playing it. Since that's the case, it occurs to me that Vol has it right. If we're going to cite permadeath as we've described it (ie. saves only when you quit and dying means the end of that particular game) only counts if that's the default game design. Ironman, as totally awesome and tubular as some folks find it, really amounts to some gamestop cowboy earning his bragging rights because he only plays games at the hardest settings. Fine. Maybe he really does enjoy the challenge. Maybe he's not jonsin' for the chance to tell his friends how he managed to defeat the game in five minutes on ironman superdeathmode which deletes your hard drive, sets assassins after your family, and renders you sterile at the first instance of "permadeath." You notice, however, that most games these days only give a nod to the gamestop cowboy types. The default actually caters to the casual gamer. All this is irrelevant. The death scheme in NWN2 works just like KotOR one and two. (Reason enough to compare KotOR2 to NWN2, huh Vol?) The way these games handle death might not be ideal, but it seems to work and the game is still fun.

Yes, I can say that NWN2, like KotOR2, managed to get the tutorial right. In fact, the tutorials rank right up with the top in the genre, even more remarkable in that they are quite different in tone and content. Unlike KotOR2, the writing has not, up to this point, made me cringe, gnash my teeth, rend my garments, gargle with cyanide, or weep incoherently in the corner. The writing has been somewhat subdued so far, but that makes sense for the part I'm currently playing. I like a great piece of dramatic, even over the top, writing just as much as the next guy. I just want it at the appropriate spot in the story and well written. NWN2 shares some great attributes with KotOR2, without being burdened by its shortcomings. YET. I'll be on the lookout and I will call them as I see them during the game.

I don't like that it's installing all sorts of .NET stuff on my system. Not that I mind it in particular, but why? I guess I'll find out. Wow, it's already installing an 87MB patch. haha. I actually take that as a good sign, however. It's like when Diablo 2 had a patch available before the release date. It shows a conscientious approach to the consumer. Ah, I see, they're actually mods. Wonderful. That's great. It's taking a while to install all the updates, but I don't mind. I'm just glad to have time to spend on the boards for a while while I wait.

I've just purchased the DVD version and, having reclaimed at least a little of my life, I plan on installing and playing it soon.

Damned internet connection sucks here. I'll be getting this game soon. I probably won't have time to play it until later in the month, but I'll be getting it. Here's where we get to see if folks are intellectually honest in regards to game length. A lot of folks were screaming about pieces of the sky falling and I'm curious to see what the consensus is and who turned out having it aright.

...And I'm sure that the massive uprising of Christians rooted you out of your home. Christians protest in defense of their beliefs? The "outrage!" In a free society, all people are promised the right to voice outrage. What they denied is the right to commit or advocate violence. Christians who advocate or enact violence are censured, fined, or even imprisoned for their offences. Let's face it, if it weren't the pope... if it were some atheist who had made the innocuous commment... then many of the folks here wouldn't be attacking the speaker. Hell, some folks don't even care about the conflict between the religions at all and merely use this speech as one more opportunity to attack the Pope. Fair enough. As the representative of papal authority, the Pope is not an atheist. He is a Christian leader and so it is his lot to be held to a different standard because he claims a different standard. Nevertheless, don't make any mistakes. I know you equate all religions with one another, but the example of Christian outrage at the "Piss Christ" exhibit led to a lot of angry words and the spilling of a flood of ink. What would have happened if the exhibit had been "Piss Muhammad?" "Piss Christ" was a ridiculous and ugly display, but the artist had every right to create it. Although I balk at the thought of public monies going to such artists, they certainly have the right to fabricate such "art" without fear of violence or reprisal. Ultimately, the Pope's problem isn't that he made an innocuous statement in the course of an academic speech. The problem is that he apologizes to a group of extremists who will only take his apology as a sign of weakness and then seek to leverage that weakness against him later.

Funny guy. Wrong forum. hahaha Anyhow, gotta jet. Must. read. article. later.

Keep us posted. In the meantime, I'm moving this to Obsidian General, since it's not really a topic regarding computers or technology. One of the other mods might have insight as well. have insight as well.