Cantousent

Why not just judge both of you. Getting back to NWN2, I'd much rather have more control, for sure. Still, I don't mind having pre-set templates. I think, eventually, these CRPGs are going to give us tremendous flexibility in creating our characters. Then maybe we can have dialogue that actually reflects those choices as well. You know, "I've never seen anyone with orange colored eyes before," type of deal.

Reading about the new Wii controller: Priceless

Good Lord, can we get back to NWN before recalling the Manilow music makes me ill? Unless of course someone has created some Barry Manilow custom content? :Cant's grinning icon:

Oh NO. Canon rears it's ugly head. I think of CRPG in much the same way I view PnP campaigns. The design team should have a good deal of lattitude. At any rate, if your biggest beef is the spell hurling goblin, then you must have been considerably more disappointed with a number of decisions made for every DnD CRPG.

The Hardcore setting really makes the death and resting schemes more palatable for me. That, and I can vent some rage by blasting my party with a few fireballs.

I remember the turmoil over the MP focus of NWN. Of course, I think most games are really single player for the majority of players. I guess it depends on whom you ask. I seem to recall that even Diablo, servers and all, was primarily single player. Hell, a lot of folks solo as best they can in MMORPGs. I don't begrudge NWN's ability to tap into a great MP venue for DnD gamers. I recall a lot of folks' posts regarding this. Gromnir's comes to mind from a couple years ago. He wrote a harsh posts commenting on the shortcoming in the NWN single player campaign and ended his review by saying that the game had provided the most fun he'd had playing a CRPG. The multiplayer and modding aspects of NWN really made the game for a lot of people. I guess I'm just not into that aspect. I'd rather play multiplayer DnD with live people. Anyhow, the big thing is that they took the NWN engine and made KotOR1, which was certainly one of my faves.

I love paranoia. Don't get to play it much anymore, but I love it.

Thanks guys! I'll give that a shot when I get home. I was cursing it last night.

I don't get any options for clicking on the party member. Their portrait comes up at the top of the screen. I've been wondering why I couldn't give folks better orders. Grrr. Maybe this is one of those bugs of which I've heard.

Now that my computer and I reside in the same house, I've restarted the game. I'm enjoying it more for a couple of reasons. First of all, I changed the difficulty to hardcore DnD rules. I like that. It doesn't do stupid things like some of the Hardcore DnD implementations I'd seen from the NWN modders. In some of those, I thought the mods slanted far too much to the fighter crowd. Let's face it, Wizards are hampered more by a computer game environment than fighters. That's not to say that wizards are always underpowered. In some games they're overpowered and in some they're underpowered, that's the nature of the game. Still, there is a lot of creative that a tabletop game allows with spells and spellcasters that a CRPG just can't accomodate. The same can be said of weapon use, traps, and other environmental factors, that's true. Nevertheless, the wizard loses access to creative measures using weapons, etc, while also losing the creative use of spells. This is true for all arcane spell users and almost as much to divine spellcasters. At any rate, that rant ends up where I started. I like the Hardcore setting on NWN2 because it doesn't go out of it's way to adhere to DnD rules in terms of spellcasters while allowing fighters to carry around endless bottles of healing and whatnot. In NWN2, I really do feel like I can use a healer to take care of poison and disease. Sure, there are potions, but healers come in much more handy. I feel like a thief is useful. It's not pointless to have a thief in the party. Anyhow, I'm enjoying the game again, although I do have a question: is it possible to initiate a conversation with someone in your party. The first time around, I let someone take me to his leader when it came up. This time, I said, "not quite yet." Well, I finished the whole area and now I can't talk to him again. Dammit.

This is entirely true. Other companies shine as well, but Bioware makes great games. I didn't care all that much for NWN. I enjoyed my two runs, but I thought it was uninspired. However, BG2 and KotOR1 rank among my favorites.

So far, I like it better than KotOR 1. That was the last RPG I personally consider great. Of course, I'm a huge BG2 fan. Planescape remains my all time favorite. We'll have to see about NWN2, though. I won't make a decision on it until I'm done with my second run. Still, it's shaping up wondefully, even with the things I don't like. The big two remain resting and death.

haha Fair enough, _oh_! :Cant's wry grin icon: Seriously, I actually have some complaints as well. I always hate having NPCs foisted on me. That's another area that irritates me. We get a party of adventurers, which a lot of us wanted, but we can't even choose who goes into our party? That's an area where not only is NWN2 bad, but NWN1 was better. I hated the henchmen, but at least NWN didn't force me to take any of them.

Yeah, the packaged campaign wasn't a shining moment for RPing. The DMC and multiplayer aspects were. The packaged campaign was lackluster, but I've heard it explained that Bioware was mostly concerned with the DMC and toolset until just before the end.

Let's get back to the discussion of NWN2 and less about each other.

You can make the argument that NWN improved RPing. I mean, the DM client alone allowed for more extensive roleplaying. The nature of the multiplayer game really does provide a lot of opportunities for roleplaying. You can attack NWN on a variety of levels, and I have, but it's an improvement on the RPing aspect of computer gaming.

That's really a problem with the genre. Since they can't create an entirely non-linear plot, the design team gives a main path that pretty much stays the same until you get around to finishing it.

This is pretty much a sure buy for me. Considering that most of my pre-orders work out for me very well, I'm not worried in the least. I'd have to see something substantially negative to change my mind.

I doubt _oh_ read the review and decided he didn't like NWN2. He probably, and correct me if I'm wrong _oh_, decided he didn't like NWN2 and then found others who share his opinion. Then he came here to discuss his complaints. Fair enough, that's why the boards are here. It's an Obsidz game and we have room for differing opinions. Just remember there is a line. One of our members recently mentioned that he didn't care to discuss things in a more or less reasonable manner. He had his freinds and he wasn't even making the pretense of a rational debate with anyone else. If that's the case, I will hand you your hat as I show you the door. That's true no matter you stand on any issue.

I won't speak for Tigranes. He's more than capable of speaking for himself. I will say that I agree with his assessment. It's not about being warm and fuzzy because you're afraid to mean abrasive. It's about being effective. I don't agree with your approach. Look, I'm sure you have some good points in there. In fact, I know there are some legitimate issues in your fifty points. The problem is, you don't sound like you want to improve NWN2. What it really looks like is that you want to want to bash NWN2 because it's not NWN1. I don't mind being abrasive. ...But get the most bang for your abrasive buck. Some of the folks here have made similar points to yours. I didn't bring up Tigranes by accident earlier. He's made some harsh complaints about NWN2. They're legitimate issues. If you'd have gone about it differently, it appears to me that you would have had Tigranes hitting the same points home. I can't speak for him, as I've said, but I've seen his points and I've read through yours. Gromnir can be pretty damned abrasive himself. He might have joined in a rant or two. Instead, he's defending Obsidz. ...And Gromnir has a long history of attacking Obsidz for what he perceives as bad decisions. You don't have to be warm and fuzzy. In fact, rant a little. Rail against the boards and the company. Heaven knows I've made waves around here myself. Just be judicious in your angst and ire. Use it to drive home your point. Don't drive away potential allies.

Personally, I think there's a lot to be said for complaining. Also, I would rather have had a CD with the soundtrak. Sure, I can convert it, but I'm lazy. See? I pay for convenience.

Well then, Vol, I suggest you need to put in another five years into making your NWN2 module. Then I'll be a playtester. ...And play hard to get all you want, but I know you love me. How's that for words in your mouth?

Before anyone goes hogwild in the thread, I'm the one who pruned it. See, the lack of freedom! Anyhow, send complaints to me personally rather than derail the thread. I'm heading out, so behave your drunken selves! After all, talking about nude dwarves will be the end of western civilization.

That will have to suffice as your final word, which I promised you. As for you, Vol, you've got the wrong of it. Sure, if you want to attack villagers, then you have less freedom in a game where you can't attack villagers. The point I was making is that I never even considered attacking villagers in either game. I would not even realize the lack of freedom because it was a freedom I never considered in the first place. Since I'm not into the whole thing with attacking villagers or children or whatever, I can only speak to my personal freedom within the game. I don't revel in the fact that others can't do exactly everything in these games that they desire. ...But it's not my issue either. That said, NWN did not give me significantly more freedom. ...Or, to put it another way, the freedom I wanted to exercise in both games was roughly equal and both games accomodated me roughly equally. I might be fanboy, and you may feel free to call me one, but that's simply a convenient label to attach to me. I've stated my opinions regarding some failings, but if the only avenue to avoid the dreaded "fanboy" label is to say I like both games in like measure or that NWN more than NWN2, then I'm afraid I'll have to live my life as a fanboy. You prefer NWN. I prefer NWN2. fair enough of both ends. Frankly, I've been quite complimentary of Bioware and I've enjoyed all of their games. BG2 and KotOR remain two of my favorites. I'm sure, to some, that makes me a fanboy.

Blizzard games are visually appealing as well, and however "fantastic" the content, it never leaves the arena of what a person can relate to in terms of reality within the genre of fantasy. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The straws are gone. This is simply grasping at thin air. You know, I've had some complaints about NWN2. Mostly that it's in a computer less than 3 miles from where I currently live and yet I barely get an hour at a time to play it. In the game, I have some complaints as well. Do I theoretically desire freedom? Yes. Do I have a specific gripe because I can't attack a villager? No. Not because I'm apathetic in a larger sense. Only because I'm not going to attack a villager. Sure, I think freedom is great, but I can't speak to restraints that hurt your experience. So far, I have had roughly as much freedom in NWN2 as I did in NWN1. The two main aspects I don't like in NWN2 are the same things I didn't like in NWN1. I don't like the way death is implemented and I don't like the way resting works. Those two issues are probably my biggest ones. In both cases, I don't see NWN as much of an improvement. I prefer the IWD approach, but even the BG scheme would have worked. In none of thse cases is realism much of an issue. You want internal realism within the campaign and then you really suggest that the weapons and armor bring down the house. See, that's what I call nuts. Sure, it's only my opinion, but I suggest you seek a second. You want to campaign against NWN2? Fine. ...But it's nuts. I mean that in the most diplomatic way possible. BTW: You seem to distance yourself from NWN2 quite a bit, Sawyer. Just curious if you don't take pride in the game.