Gromnir

don't be jealous. keep in mind that he is at level 46+ and has played the game for well over 100 hours. you really want that stuff bad 'nuff that you would play that long? ... maybe you would. HA! Good Fun!

planescape status is... odd. monte cook's pnp folks did a nice revisiting of planescape materials 10 years after the fact. no doubt he had to get some kinda okie dokie from wotc. however, we does agree that a publisher of crpgs would be real unlikely to wanna jump at planescape. as much as some of us thought planescape were the bestest d&d setting evar, many folks disliked it 'nuff to not wanna give planescape:torment more than a cursory glance. where were the elves and dwarves, and why did everything have to look so dark and dirty? also, chrisA kinda were hit and miss with his freshman philosophy approach to the game. sometimes folks try a little too hard to be profound... but as Gromnir is a minimalist by nature and training, we probably is not the best person to judge such things. regardless, the thing 'bout planescape is that it would be pretty easy to fix where it failed with fans. not have to dumb down the writing as some suggest... but you does have to shorten individual dialogue options, and it might be a good idea to try and rely on metaphor maybe a little more than the overt philosophizings of first year liberal arts students. sure, some people will miss your point, but they probably won't be bothered by it neither. too much ps:t dialogue? maybe, but you makes the dialogue options shorter as already noted, and add in more and better combat options and we thinks people would not be complaining. as much as chrisA disagrees with us on this, ps:t combat were pretty lame. also, am understanding that the bis guys wanted to capture the feel of planescape, but it turns out that many fantasy and d&d fans seems to need dwarves and elves n' such to enjoy... so why not give'em such things. sigil gots infinite doorways to infinite destinations... many of which gots dwarves and elves and wizards that looks disturbingly much like gandalf or saruman. planescape is a big 'nuff setting that you can give everybody a bit of what they want. ... if there is one thing we dislike 'bout bioware games it is that they does not try to makes the best game they can so much as they is trying to makes the best game they is able to with the broadest possible appeal to the largest segment of crpg fans they thinks they can reach. try to please everybody and you necessarily end up forced to embrace mediocrity. is maybe the result of bio listening too much to the fans. dunno. nevertheless, such an approach seems to be a necessary prerequisite if one is even willing to consider doing another planescape crpg with the current publisher/developer dynamic at work. regardless, is too many ifs and maybes. HA! Good Fun!

yeah, 'cause the old one made money. there is, as some will no doubt point out very soon, exceptions to the rule that only successful products gets sequels, but they is exceptions. as far as we can tell, fergie ain't the foolish gambler who goes all-in early. he is playing the odds and has been clever 'nuff to be getting sure money makers to starts his new development co. we not see some kinda polarizing shift in the immediate future from somebody who has been so cautious and sensible so far. HA! Good Fun!

... however, we does note that length can be a debatable attribute of a work described as epic. vis is not clearly and objectively wrong 'bout his 60 hours min. thing. HA! Good Fun!

the thread title is bad given the question. favorite game may not be the one we thinks is best... much as our favorite book might not be the one we thinks is best. HA! Good Fun!

*sigh* sorry vis, but no loopholes in the def for you. an epic poem is pretty short by game standards... more than one sitting is the rule of thumb for epic length of a poem and given the fact that 90-120 minute films is appropriately described as being movie epics we thinks you is gonna have a hard time holding to the 60 hour mark as some kinda minimum. crpgs, in the relative field of games, is almost all certainly long 'nuff. HA! Good Fun!

ever seen those nature shows where they shows chimpanzee behavior? is 2 kinds of chimps: common and bonobo. the bonobo chimps is 'possedley more peaceful. the bonobo females got more social status and sex occurs in pretty much every human varriation and with much frequency. however, the myth of the kinder and gentler bonobo is based simply 'pon the lack of everyday physical violence that occurs with the common chimps. instead, rates of fratricide and patricide and suicide seems to be higher with bonobo than with common chimps... and while common chimps is more likely to kill outsider males, bonobo chimps is the ones that seems to engage in prolonged emotional torment of their fellow troop members. oh, and bonobo females tends to have larger and more prominent breasts than common chimps (and other apes for that matter,) though not to the degree of human females. personally, Gromnir thinks that he would prefer to be a common chimp. sure, there would be less sex and more killings, but watching loner chimps gets emotionally brutalized somehow seems more cruel... and human. ... for those that not get our less than subtle chimp crap, Gromnir is saying that we is gonna let vis off the hook... for the time being. HA! Good Fun!

As it should be. If you are a priest, you must worship a god. In favor the god would grant you spells. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> doesn't really work well with core domains and fr gods. bane, as an example, gots hatred and tyranny as domains. sure, you still got choice of evil and law, but those would be only choices. valkur and aerdrie faenya, fringe fr gods at best, sudden becomes real popular 'cause they is only fr gods that offer air and good? poor josh gets stuck with his red knight priest having a fixed choice of law and war. nwn were creating a rules system that were gonna be for playing beyond fr... the toolset, as such, has been used for greyhawk and dl and a multitude of custom worlds... and since the bio developers had no hope of making all fr domains available, much less all d&d domains, they stuck with the core... and the core rules allow you to choose any two domains... and there ain't no requirement for worship o' a specific deity. makes sense to us that 'cause rulset had to work for more than fr core would be the default. however, they really screwed the core domains up badly. it not bother us that the domains and spontaneous casting rules ain't even remotely similar to da rules, but if you is gonna throw away the rulebooks, then how do you come up with the woefully unbalanced crap that is the nwn domains? the core d&d domains may not be balanced, but they is a damned sight better than the crazy fr nonsense. unfortunately, the biowarians really did a poor job of implementing the core domains... and numerous bio developers has admitted that even they were displeased with their implementaion of domains... didn't even put up a fight when Gromnir blasted 'em. HA! Good Fun!

"The only definition I need is mine and mine alone because the only person I have to live with is me." okie dokie... but you is complained 'bout how bioware uses the word and not how you uses. you can looks at a cow and say "dog" all you wish, but when you criticize others for failing to do the same, well then you is just being psychotic, no? such oddness can leads to all kinds o' confusion as you insist that dogs is a wonderful source of milk and that as a good midwestern boy there ain't nothing you likes better than a grade A ribeye steak cut from a corn fed iowan dog. ... if you is complaining that bio ain't following your telepathic orders to them that they ditch the oed and websters and instead use vis definitions, then we thinks you is being just a tiny bit unreasonable, no? HA! Good Fun!

am gonna note that based on chat and some other comments we seen recently, older dev comments 'bout how nwn2 were almost a completely different engine and game from the ground up is seeming likes a great deal of bunk. am recalling, in particular, that josh were quite critical of nwn cleric domain implementation... were something that came up during iwd2 development. nevertheless, it sounds like nwn2 cleric domains is gonna be less than accurate... in spite of josh desire to get the core stuff right. ... oh well. HA! Good Fun!

you are, of course, incorrect. "Did you see "Gleaming the Cube"? Dude, that was like so freaking Epic!" is not necessarily how advertisers and normal persons use "epic" in conversations. anybody wanna get a dictionary for vis? shows him a def. epicness of a work can simply refers to scope and size o' story. if you is saving the world or galaxy, then chances are you gots yourself more than 'nuff just 'cause to use overused epic label. advertisers and developers use Epic precisely 'cause wacky folks likes vis attributes a qualitative aspect to a word that don't really got one. developers and publishers is rarely fibbing or even stretching truths when they calls their storytelling "epic." how many fantasy or sci-fi game stories ain't epic in scope? is a few, but they is the exceptions. and as for predictability = lameness... that might be overstating. sure, we would much prefer if we didn't know what were coming, but predictability don't have to = lame if the characters and encounters in a game is well developed. ever read TDKR? is the closest thing to superhero comic art we ever has read, but if you gots even the most tiny shreds of a lit background you were gonna be able to see what were coming. in fact, the one lame aspect of TDKR were the end. for a comic fan, the end were predictable. batman survives. however, given the literary pparallels TDKR were drawing so heavily 'pon, we didn't expect for batman to survive... and that actually were the one real blemish on an otherwhise fantastic bits o' comic art. and 'cause it just wouldn't be the obsidian boards w/o devolution into a predictably lame tolkien battle, we feels compelled to note that lotr were pretty darn predictable, and some people here hold it up as the pinnacle o' fantasy lit. regardless, epic needs not mean what vis seems to insist on it meaning. u lose. r00fles. whatever. HA! Good Fun!

http://www.dragonlance.com/products/ looks like wotc still is making dl crap... though it not get much play at the wotc d&d site. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060406a&o= oh well. HA! Good Fun!

in the mid 80s dl were popular... but am not thinking that it has the same selling power as does the frs. every month wotc releases a new fr product, in spite of fact that greyhawk is the official setting. *snort* not too many dl products coming out of wotc these days. maybe dl is more popular than wotc seems to think, but we doubt it. besides which, dl is kinda lame. HA! Good Fun!

question: why do they even bother to list chrisA as a participant at these things? HA! Good Fun!

didn't know we were in competition.. Gromnir were genuinely looking for info as we ain't spent much time at the bio boards in a while and last we heard were that there were some serious backwards compatability issues with PrCs... would have to be redone from scratch almost. would still like to see some confirmation from a current member of the development team, but at least the obsidians ain't starting from square 1 with PrCs... though that doesn't seem to mesh with some of josh's recent comments. HA! Good Fun!

am not sure what you are talking 'bout. Gromnir sure never mentioned fan made PrCs. also, am not sure where you is getting your info from that the old PrCs from nwn1 will be included and playable in nwn2. please supply a link. HA! Good Fun!

how many PrCs gots the nwn games? how many will the first nwn2 game has? you cannot simply compare nwn2 to nwn... 'cause the property advanced, at least in the eyes of fans. it may be unfair to obsidian, but we ain't trying to be fair... am talking 'bout fan expectations. we weren't kidding 'bout the PrC threads on the nwn boards neither... is as bad as the lightsabre color threads onthe kotor boards. HA! Good Fun!

"Creating the sort of overpowered characters Gromnir suggested isn't a step forward." not for you or Gromnir and not for josh... but don't kid yourself 'bout what many folks do want. simply looks at the pnp material that wotc has sold since 3e were first released. the munchkin urge is strong, and wotc has fed it... and now the stuff is official... whatever that means. regardless, people got PrCs in their previous nwn products, and they got 30 levels and they gots ph47 1007 and all kinds o' other stuff. there is gonna be people who is gonna be really disappointed if nwn2 regresss so that their characters is seemingly gimped compared to their nwn characters. HA! Good Fun!

chrisA were a no-show at the last nwn2 dev chat. weasel were helpful... but he is no longer with obsidian. btw, for folks not aware, the moderated chats is useless... but you can get info by hanging 'round After the chat and speaking with the developers who decide to slum it with the masses. is pretty chaotic, but the questions and answers post-chat is always more enlightening than the moderated q&a sessions. HA! Good Fun!

you would know better than Gromnir. we bought Defenders of the Faith... then vowed never to buy another d&d product again. we downloaded the d&d 3.5 core rules, but that doesn't cover all the secondary and tertiary source materials. after what appeared to be a good start with 3e, we is back to where we were with original d&d, and ad&d... we is forced to play mostly with house rules variations 'cause of the suckage that is predictable (& necessary) corporate greed. not gonna make money of off a single coherent rule set... gotta keep offering new info and new materials, whether it makes game better or not. HA! Good Fun!

"Grom, I don't think that is reasonable or practical to pander to the

"Don't forget that NwN 2 is equal parts a empowerment for modders, too." no it isn't... and it would help if the developers figured that out sooner rather than later. according to some comments made by biowarians, less than 10% of nwn purchasers ever played a mod... and far fewer ever made a mod. is not equal... not by a long shot. "I think it is beyond obvious that the beginning is where you start" what is even more obvious is that people always want more. tell us that it makes more sense to start with the basics completely ignores a large % of those 2 million nwn fans who unreasonably or not, wants... more. we gots perspective... and so too should josh. we recall when iwd2 were being developed and josh offered up to the board for feedback some kit ideas. they were very solid and balanced... and they were absolutely hated. HA! Good Fun!

actually, if we recall right, it is even less than that. ghostwise can communicate telepathically with another creature they gots a languge in common with at a very short range. simply call it a Spirit Voice instead of telepathy and the minor ability goes from psionic to mystic... explain as being some kinda link with nature or quasi-druidic ability. problem solved. and eldar telling us how much variation the core rules got is kinda meaningless as we already noted how much variation the core rules offer.. we specific noted that core rules gots more options than we saw in the original nwn and its expansions. forget the reality, am talking 'bout perception... and the weight o' player expectations. peoples played nwn and the expansions at levels 1-30+, and they had a bunch of PrC, and they saw lots of loot and critters. nwn2 is gonna have fewer PrCs... and that right there is a big difference. you don't think so? simply looks at the nwn boards both before and after release. demand for each person's personal favorite PrC is probaly one of the most common recurring threads you will have seen. am also not talking 'bout personal wants... 'cause Gromnir will be satisfied if gameplay is solid and if they gets domains better than the nwn weirdness. ufortunately we ain't the average crpg or d&d or FR fan. from what we can tell, the average nwn player wants to play as a drow death knight, dual wielding vorpal halberds... and he wants an opportunity kill elminster and make wild sweaty monkey love with lolth. now, Gromnir am recognizing that no developer is gonna make such a game, and perhaps we is being a smidge hyperbolic, but we thinks that if you don't understand your audience you is gonna be more than a little disappointed at their reaction. afterwards the obsidian developers can pull a ps:t fanboi kinda thing and says that they were casting pearls before swine, but such excuses has rarely been particularly moving. the fans of nwn is NOT the handful of modders you see on the nwn boards... and they is NOT the hardcore crpg fans you see 'round here or at codex or at bioware. nwn sold 2 million copies and the vast majority o' players never played a mod or played online with a pnp style party... evar. there is lots of folks out there who play these games simply to level up and gain loot... and many of the folks who buy nwn2 is gonna be doing so in the hopes that the characters they create in nwn2 will have more fantastic powers and more powerful loot than they did in nwn... and they will wanna play a drow who gets an opportunity to kill elminster and score with lolth. HA! Good Fun!

while the cause and effect is suspect, we gots no problem believing that the average gamer is a pot smoking slacker. ... yeah, we is talking 'bout all of you. HA! Good Fun!

btw, while we applaud josh's desire to get the core right, ('cause we is almost as snobbish as he is 'bout such things,) one wonders how the fans will react. part o' the formula for movie sequels is to always gets bigger explosions and crazier fight scenes, right? similar line o' thinking exists in games. sequels in crpgs offer More Powhaz and More 10075 than predecessors. compare bg2 available character development and loot options to bg1. fallout 2 v. fallout? kotor2 v. kotor? . josh and Gromnir can point out that a genuine core implementation of d&d gives far more character options than nwn and all the expansions combined, but the average fan probably ain't gonna see it that way. where is all the prestige classes and 1337 abilities? *shrug* we thinks josh is doing the right way... but sometimes the right way ain't what people want. HA! Good Fun! ps drow is munchkiny, specially with stoopid sunlight adaptation feats, but they keeps finding their way into pnp and crpg games 'cause that is what fans want... and the developers know that the fans want powerful drow. sometimes the smart developer simply gotta cave to will of the masses.