Gromnir

... am risking being called sexist by contributing. *sigh* women likes elves. don't ask Gromnir why, but when there were the Ladies of Neverwinter site running it were interesting to hear women likes and dislikes 'bout the romances and character choices in bio games. Carth were considerable influenced by feedback from the regulars at Ladies of Neverwinter... so said Gaider. regardless, women like elves. there doesn't needs be a good reason, but apparently the effete tree-huger shtick really appeals to the ladies. also, women likes suffering. no, is not that women is masochists, but women does like their hero types to have a Tragic past. da elves is recognizable as elves, so for folks who wanted to play elves da elves has appeal o' tradition. also, the da elves is victims, and that kinda woe seems to score points with women. maybe bio screwed up the execution, but we don't believe that they hate elves (not near as much as does Gromnir) and am pretty sure they were trying to make elves appeal to those people who already seeming likes elves. also, am thinking that the elf parallels to numerous native american/indian peoples is too obvious to overlook. perhaps it were bad to draw on real world examples, but we can see how the biowarians could end up with their elves if they looked to the history of dispossessed peoples. *shrug* if it makes you feel better, play the dahlish origin... before completing origin you can strip your female companion down to her unmentionables and end up with a mage robe that is arguably better than any mage garment we found (not purchased) until much later in game. +1 mana regen in combat, +4 spellpower, and +4% mr ain't bad for early in game, no? HA! Good Fun!

Descent? Did the dragon fly around when you guys were fighting it? That would've been pretty cool-- it stayed put for me. yeah.... "cool." it were not so cool when Gromnir managed to freeze said lizard in mid-air... just out of reach of our melee combatants. is ssssooooo wrong that a gargantuan frozen lizard would float likes a Thanksgiving Day Parade balloon, laughing silently both at Gromnir and gravity. if Di has soldier's peak dlc, then you gets an alice in wonderland "drink me" option... choke down dr. mengele's secret formula and gain some extra super-powers... powers Gromnir never genuine made use of in the game. HA! Good Fun!

ok, now i have to ask, what exactly do you do for a living where you had to deal with this kid? "worked"... is past tense. we worked at a Juvenile Hall for a few years while we were still in school... which is a good long time ago. Beeson were not nearly the most... colorful. as for newc's belief that allistar is in-character... well, vol agrees with him, so that right there should give him pause. in-character? after the archdemon dreams and seeing the broodmother and watchnig duncan knife ser jory... how's bout a short answer question? "I will stand idly by and allow the darkspawn horde to kill, torture or transform every man, woman and child in Fereldan (and possibly all of Thedas) because _______________________________________________________________ so, what is an appropriate answer for allistar, one that seems plausible given the manner in which al were developed up until the landsmeet? really? you musta' genuinely despised al and thought he were a complete monster if you believed it were possible that he would you wanna talk wacky comparisons? you is the guy comparing to some guy and his stereo. HA! Good Fun!

the only thing we regret 'bout allistar and morriagn HA! Good Fun!

the sergeant doesn't care about the oars. he tells you Not to kill the mercs in the pearl, but he leaves matters up to you regarding the oars. HA! Good Fun!

Thanks! I always wondered if there was a point to Pick... you mean a purpose other than showing how poorly elves is treated? the sword is actually a solid get for so early in the game. our recollection is that it is tier 2 grey iron, gives +2 to attack and +10 to physical resistance. but am probable off on one o' those attributes. HA! Good Fun! Honestly, I found the servants in Castle Cousland, coupled with Iona's comment about how well Bryce Cousland treats his elves, a better example of the poor treatment of elves than Pick. Pick just came across as a village idiot whose only real use was as a gopher. If Bio had followed up on that red-headed elven woman that the quartermaster asks you about, that might have been better. Imagine helping him find her, then she gets whipped. You step in to stop the whipping, and everyone turns on you because you don't seem to realize that whipping elves is good for them (NOT in an S&M fashion) and that what's being done is proper. Now that would have appropriately demonstrated how poorly off the elves are in Fereldan, IMO. am agreeing that the elf origins and human origins do a better job with introducing us to elf lore, but you understandably get 0 elf background in either of the dwarf origins. no doubt the developers felt compelled to give the player some elf background considering they may possibly have received 0 up to that point. you are able to get some commentary from the ash warriors regarding elves... and from the quartermaster. is all kinda pick related. "Do you get more XP if you use Coercion, rather than simply killing the two schmucks?" am not sure 'bout those examples. it were our impression that using coercion typically robbed Gromnir of easy 1007 and experience. however, am certain that the red oars mercenaries resolution netted us more exp through coercion than combat. were actual kinda surprising. HA! Good Fun! btw, we just had a chance to recheck tainted blade. no wonder the numbers is borked. with starfang and the dead thaig dagger we gots observable base damage o' 40.5 main hand and 32.4 off hand. use tainted blade and the numbers immediate jump to 53.3 and 45.2. those numbers would be higher if we opted for some slight different equipment, but Gromnir has been putting all points into cunning for quite some time, and current adjusted cunning is 50. also, we don't use all our runes as damage runes... makes far more sense to use paralyze runes. so base damage is a bit more important for us. however, keeps in mind that morrigan, with every cold boosting damage item we can find, typically produces a blizzard that is doing 9 points o' damage to enemies every few seconds. tainted blade is doing 10 points o' damage to our character at the same/similar rate. our character is a dwarf so he naturally has a slight higher con score than other rogues, but even so, our initial impression regarding tainted blade is reinforced. should not be part of the equation although it Signifficantly boosts the cunning builds dps.

Thanks! I always wondered if there was a point to Pick... you mean a purpose other than showing how poorly elves is treated? the sword is actually a solid get for so early in the game. our recollection is that it is tier 2 grey iron, gives +2 to attack and +10 to physical resistance. but am probable off on one o' those attributes. HA! Good Fun!

am gonna disagree 'bout the number o' attacks. really. Gromnir has compared a dozen times, and with momentum we is easily able to see three attack totals leap off the screen as zev shifts to get a backstab opp. and in boss battles you is even less likely to get your 100% backstabs. dragons and revenants do not let Gromnir sit on their arse all day long. some significant portion o' attacks will be against unflankable opponents, or 'gainst critters who immediate turn on you when you try and flank. the improved attack rating makes a big difference... particularly as cone of cold duration has been reduced. being frozen meant that boss were immobile but still target worthy. btw, on hard and against bosses, Gromnir is never able to get use of the taunting and force-field protected tank tactic some people utilize. this would be another great boon for achieving a higher rate of backstabs, but am never able to pull off. against mobs we will has stoneheart enabled shale run in to some target rich environment, use taunt, and then spam the area with area effect spells after we protect shale with a forcefield. that way even if there is archers or spell catsers who is able to continue to move/attack, they will focus on shale. ... you know what happens when we use force field on shale 'gainst dragons and revenants? we effective take shale out of the fight... even if we used stone roar. am wondering if there is some step we is missing. HA! Good Fun! ps to open the tranquil chest in ostagar you don't need coercion or stealing.

I have a bridge on the Thames to sell you. I'm not even gonna begin to address Grom's whole "it's not irrational if you're already crazy" argument. one of my first clients ever was a guy who was thousands of dollars in debt and was facing repossession of a stereo he bought on hire purchase/an installment plan. he had fallen waay behind on the payments and had no money to make new ones. but he still wanted to keep the stereo. okay, that's not irrational, if you grant the premise that he has good reason for keeping the stereo, i.e. he likes to listen to music. but it's surely irrational in the broader, you-can't-seriously-expect-to-keep-a-stereo-you-can't pay-for. yeah, Alistair's reaction to Loghain is stupid for all the reasons Grom lists. i agree 100%. but is it realistic? sure, in my experience. i've lost count of the times i've seen folk loose all perspective... again, if you got history and development as to the person being crazy, then their actions is not implausible. we has met your stereo guy... though dealing with stereo's ain't our thing. nevertheless, we has met people who is complete stubborn about some seemingly minor issue. the thing is, if you got enough history with the person, you will not be so surprised by their odd behavior. is always a reason... even if is terrible. if allister were painting his tent walls with poop, Then we would get it. if allister had been shown as irrational regarding a particular spoiler issue previous, Then it would be acceptable. even if you think people is wacky/irrational in real life, it still is bad writing. if the only argument you got is that it makes sense because it doesn't have to make sense, then you is doing a pretty crappy job of making a convincing argument that allister is plausible or acceptable as written. *chuckle* imagine a mystery novel... spend +250 pages developing characters and plot. author then ultimately resolves by revealing that the killer/antagonist were just some random guy who went nuts. Worst. Story. Evar. even if is plausible, no writer ever resorts to such nonsense. "he went nuts" is the worst kinda crutch and is complete unnecessary when a writer has +50 hours to make plausible. even if you like the game, is no reason to be an apologist for every stoopid thing the developers did. allister's choice is implausible... and so far the only excuse we has seen is that such implausibility is completely plausible. go figure. HA! Good Fun!

am sorry, but the allistar defense committee is... lame. if only excuse for allistar behavior is that he were "irrational" and that is ok 'cause people IS irrational at times, then you still gotta complete ignore the character as he were developed for +50 hours leading up to the choice. and most o' the times our clients is not irrational, if we accept their pov. our client's fears and expectations may be irrational, but if you accept the client's pov, typically they is acting rationally. "If I proceed with this case, God will smote me for being greedy." irrational? is only irrational if you don't believe in a God who smotes his followers. Mr. P (for plaintiff) were a very religious man who had had some bad experiences in the past. couldn't convince him that his fears were misplaced. the thing is, if we put ourself in Mr. P's position, and we genuine believed that God would smote us if we didn't accept the govt's crappy initial deal, then his decision made sense. we also worked at a juvenile detention facility, and a good number o' the kids were on some serious drugs. kid paints his walls with his own poop to keep the monsters away. irrational? not if you assume that 1) a demon is really out to get Mr. Beeson in room 12, & 2) those poop symbols will keep demons away. the thing is, Gromnir had experience with Beeson and knew he were a nutter who were on drugs that seeming made him more apt to hallucinate. so the excuse is that allistar acted nutty once. regarding al, his irrational behavior were not a part o' his developed character, and it conflicted with the biowarian efforts leading up to that point. "and then he went a little crazy." sorry, but that ain't competent or plausible character development even if you thinks it is realistic. is a lazy shortcut... is an apologist response. HA! Good Fun! ps am still pulling for kal sharok in a sequel or dlc. we were told that orzamar cut off ties with the other dwarven communities during the last blight, to save themselves... only kal sharok survived. is fertile story ground. the dwarf stuff were some o' the best material in da. would be interesting to see a different dwarven pov. we gets this themes o' hard choices and sacrifices... what sacrifice is too much to save everything you hold dear? could use that on a larger scale for kal sharok.

yeah. of course the numbers still assume 100% hit rate and use of tainted blood... and unlikely equipment for much of game. Gromnir avoids tainted blood like the plague... which is one of the oft mentioned complaints of the linked calculation. the 100% hit rate also fails to consider the significant difference between attack ratings. in addition, the formula seems to assume a 100% backstabbing, which is in our experience, highly unlikely or self defeating. if Gromnir achieves only 3 attacks while some other player is setting up a backstab, Gromnir has already complete nullified the superior backstab damage, no? HA! Good Fun!

for the battles Gromnir would wanna be stealthed, stealth don't help... which is any serious boss battle. for any other battle, being stealthed simply takes us out of combat. if Gromnir gets three standard attacks during the time monte needs to set up his 100 point backstab (a very conservative estimate btw), Gromnir has already dealt over 100 points o' damage anyways. stealth gets kewl points more than it is an effective battlefield tactic. as a light armed foe, we is pretty low on the target priority list. with shale doing taunt and stoneheart mode, Gromnir is usually able to gets our flanking position when desired... and with a mage or two and shale, most enemies is stunned/disabled for much of combat. put the bosses in a force field, shred the mobs, and then concentrate on the boss unhampered. *shrug* to weave through the mobs and achieve tactical superiority we need tier 3 stealth. tier 4 not genuine help with the stuff we really would want it for anyways. HA! Good Fun!

good breakdown. seems to agree with our own personal observations regarding criticals and back stabs being an either/or proposition. however, as we is likely to continue to use shale as our primary tank, the swords win over daggers for us. the best 1h weapons in the game are swords and we want those in our pc's hands. there is one super dagger in the game, and it is also super expensive... Gromnir can buy lifegiver ring and other stuff by forgoing the dagger. in any event, smart play seems like str or dex... not cunning. cunning is just not worth it as far as we can tell. HA! Good Fun!

I have no problem with <that event> being a dealbreaker for Alistair. Every second exchange with him seemed to involve him getting misty-eyed over Duncan's death and his love for the Grey Wardens. He was ambivalent about the throne and - as for sex with Morrigan - . But . I was taken aback by the strength of his reaction on the first playthrough, but i have absolutely no problem with it being a core tenet of his being. and darkness will sweep over the world, and all that you know will be reduced to blood and ash. bah. HA! Good Fun!

the problem is that least originally the rogue weren't gonna be a rogue. were all kinda community suggestions regarding the third class. rogue were gonna be a jack-of-all-trades kinda thing. the rogue, in final incarnation still isn't Necessarily a scheming, murdering, sneaker. the class May be a lightly armoured flanking fighter or a duelist as the specialization suggests. 'course, if only the rogue can take thiefy skills, then thief it shall be, no? the thing is, we suspect that the human noble origin were developed before bio settled on making their 3rd class a thief rather than a jack-of-all trades or skill user, ranger or bard... or any o' the other similarly stoopid suggestions we saw. one o' the only intelligent things vol has said in the past month since da were released were that rogues is unnecessary... and the only reason we thinks it is an intelligent observation is 'cause he agrees with Gromnir. is simply no need for a rogue class. open up the thiefy skills and talents to warrior and mage and you got a superior game with more character-build variety. HA! Good Fun!

Gromnir chose dwarf noble 'cause none o' the starting talents/skills were objectionable. sadly, we was displeased to see how little impact our origin had on game when we returned to orzamar. a couple of snide remarks were the only difference we noted... and one additional conversation to explain just why your returning weren't noteworthy. if we does rogue again it will probable be city elf or human... but the human noble origin is just gawd awful. "Oh, the humanity!" HA! Good Fun!

Now this is the rub. I don't mind giving up a little bit of combat ability in order to have a fast talker. What I don't like is giving up diversity. I wonder if it's possible to split the difference. Have enough cunning to persuade folks and pick locks and the like and have enough strength and dex to give me a good spread on talents. I mean, talents make this game. You can literally have two people from the same class who are nothing alike because of talents, which I think is good. It does lead to the opportunity to screw yourself, but overall it's a good aspect of the game. fast talking can be achieved through skills... need 18 cunning to get tier 4 talky skill. what we didn't know is that a high cunning player don't need tier 4 o' proselytizing skill... so with high cunning you can save 1 skill point (although we s'pose you will not get top-end intimidates). talent-wise it would appear that the high cunning rogue doesn't need the fourth tier of lockpicking if you want to open all chests. so you save a point there. ... dunno. you gotta spread talents and abilities much more careful to get a good cunning rogue, whereas the strength rogue you can get all the benefits o' the cunning rogue, while not having to go the Cunning Route with talents. am really not seeing an upside to the cunning rogue.... but that don't mean that the cunning rogue ain't effective, 'cause they are effective. HA! Good Fun!

"I'll stick to the cunning build even if it's slightly less advantageous than strength build, assuming that it's not suicidal." is definite not suicidal. the cunning route is perfect viable... is simple no good reason we can see to choose. am not recognizing any kinda real advantage to going the cunning route if you is a dual wield combatant. the str option ends up resulting in a superior combatant, and you actually can be a bit more diverse in your talent choices. *shrug* and the mage tower only gives 1 more point for cunning than str or dex... is not much significant. HA! Good Fun! ps as for stealth... three tiers o' stealth with a mere 18 cunning is good for 99.9% of game.

"Most importantly of all my stamina adjustment, fully kitted out, is +2.25% or something, so with lethality and momentum switched on I'm a chainsaw." with wade's superior drakeskin and a halfway decent helm you is gonna get something like -6.1% fatigue... but that has nothing to do with cunning. momentum is great... but that also gots 0 cunning relevance. lethality is complete unnecessary if you go str route. most o' the stuff you mention ain't cunning dependent. can get same benefits or more with str build. cunning not improve your defense. cunning not improve attack. cunning can improve damage, but it still not equal what you get by boosting str over cunning. HA! Good Fun!

well, am thinking you can still make use of keen defense (tier 3) and the initial dex boost. 'course, what is your other options, 'eh? the ranger critters ain't half bad. HA! Good Fun!

makes cunning even less necessary... or more, depending on how you look at it. the lack o' transparency is a real hoot, no? so, 18 cunning gets 3 ranks in stealth (if you like stealth) and to get 4th tier o' lockpicks you need a cunning score o' 22. HA! Good Fun!

^ As I posted earlier in this thread, having a good rogue with high Stealth skill (3+) and decent Cunning makes crowd control very different from the vanilla 'Tank & Mage' melee / fireball inferno route. honest, am thinking that alan managed to sell folks on the high cunning rogue 'round these parts before folks actual played. no doubt the high cunning rogue is still effective, but the numbers (at least the ones that is viewable) is still seeming in favor o' the high str rogue. more base damage and you don't need lethality line to achieve. better attack rating regardless if you is flanking or not. am not sure what is minimum cunning to open all chests, but even if you not go past 18 a handful o' missed chests is unlikely to be more than a minor irritant. am aware that cunning gives additional armour penetration and critical chance, but we recently began using tier 4 duelist and it became pretty damned obvious that criticals ain't near as important for a rogue as we surmised. if you use coup de grace or you is backstabbing, you is effective doing criticals anyway. the numbers leaping up on screen is no different/better for Gromnir when he uses the tier 4 duelist auto-crit, then when we is attacking from flank or attacking a stunned/immobilized opponent... and is appears that criticals and backstabs is identical... no stacking. also, am not bloody worried 'bout minor improvements to armour penetration if our backstabbing rogue ends up with a modified str in the 50s. can still get stealth 3 with 18 cunning. as counter-intuitive as it first seems, am not sure if there is a reason to go past 18 cunning for a rogue... dual wield or archer. strength for dual wield and dex for archer... and less need to spread attribute points. your dw rogue is gonna get to at least 25-27 base str anyway just so you can use the best 1-h swords in game, right? dunno, am thinking that low 20s cunning is all you need to open all chests and disarm traps, so if that if you need such to be appropriate rogueish, then so be it... otherwise, am not seeing a reason to go past 18 cunning for any rogue build. HA! Good Fun!

The Twisted Rune alone has more fiersome and varied mage opponents than all of DA. agreed. and vol, just as you keep fraudulently claiming that we concluded that rogues is useless and weak, we also never said that the denerim thugs were the toughest battles in the game. we did note that the denerim thugs is disproportionate tough for a bunch o' back alley reprobates, but those battles were not anywhere near the toughest in the game. in any event, we stand by our assertion that 500 of the denerim thugs we encountered as a level 18 or level 20 character would make short work of the blight. Gromnir's gimped 4-man party and a handful of henchmen cut through the heart of the horde without much resistance. if less than dozen thugs could make Gromnir sweat, 500 would makes kibble out of a mere blight.... just as Gromnir eviscerates vol. "I didn't even know you could get up to 100% spell resistance." requires very specific and costly equipment. multiple +10 gold grandmaster dewomer runes. a pendant that cost +85 gold. armour that will run you in the neighborhood o' +25 gold. etc. only a templar can wear the special armour, so that further limits the potential usefulness o' the 100% sr build. *shrug* HA! Good Fun!

with 100% sr 1 character can ignore mages... not your party... and your 100% sr character is also necessarily more vulnerable to physical attacks than he/she would be if she were more intelligently arming and armouring self. enemy mages is dangerous and dumb. if enemies target your mages the same way you try to eradicate their mages, da would be a very different game. am not sure why this isn't getting through? and for you to invoke logic is just crazy-wacky. and bg2 mage battles were much more complex than da mage battles... but that is to be expected given the vast catalog of spells available in bg2 as opposed to da. if da were to suffer from the same unrestrained spell list bloat as does d&d, then am suspecting that da battles would be tougher... particularly if da enemy ai were improved. HA! Good Fun!

nope. HA! Good Fun!