Gromnir

what you said was: "Usually I consider something dark if it has a cynical or nihilistic view of the human condition." definition 3 actually works less in such a case. you bring up definition of nihilism (n.). now make into and adjective modifying "view"... more specific, "view of the human condition." a noun describing a destructive impulse not work so well as an adjective modifying a view of human the human condition. well, no biggie. your mistake results in a little enlightenment for you and others. Nietzsche would be pleased. HA! Good Fun!

wrath might have had more luck if he declared that russian lit = dark rather than nihilism = dark. am being hyperbolic and am certain that somebody can identify a famous russian author who did not do dark... but we cannot think of one at the moment. HA! Good Fun! Tolstoy? Nabokov? tolstoy is pretty damned gloomy... but oddly enough, the epilogues from war and peace is relative positive. anna kerenina is a hoot with the titular character committing suicide, and resurrection is thankfully forgotten with characters so dismal and hopeless as to be caricatures more than believable peoples. nabokov? suicides, pedophiles, insane protagonists, tortured loves and failed murders... though we never could figure out how to describe Pnin as it seems quirky w/o much of nabokov's typical malice. there IS some short stories by nabokov that is non-dark. dunno. HA! Good Fun!

According to the wiki, Legion deals 43% less damage than Shep with the Widow... so while powerful, it's not quite "gamebreaking". And poor squaddies need all the help they can get, they do. Also, squad Cryo Ammo I found to be one of the best force multipliers in the game, if used with AR or SMG-armed squadmates. In my Vanguard playthrough, I found that at least 2-3 enemies per encounter were consistently being frozen... which means they stop shooting at you BEFORE they are dead. Don't know about its effectiveness against barrier, though. Slam is useful for one thing and one thing alone -- to set up Warp explosions with Miranda. And since she gets at least one dot in that skill no matter what, you might as well use it... I wish there was a respec research project for jNPCs too. am not certain if we is disturbed or relieved regarding legion and the widow sniper rifle. makes sense that bio had to balance in some manner. is the mantis similarly gimped? would almost needs to be otherwise it would make more sense to have legion keeps using the mantis. is all squad weapon damage 43% of shep's? ... wacky stuff. HA! Good Fun!

wrath might have had more luck if he declared that russian lit = dark rather than nihilism = dark. am being hyperbolic and am certain that somebody can identify a famous russian author who did not do dark... but we cannot think of one at the moment. HA! Good Fun!

oh, well, if you found in dictionary.com that must be definitive. *chuckle* in any event, def 1 doesn't require dark. def 2 does not either... is an "or" definition. revolutionary not require dark. def 3... yeah, is the silly post hitler definition that not have anything to do with nihilism as a philosophy or school o' thought. def 4... again, no requisite dark. def 5... clearly you were not using in the context of a particular russian revolutionary group, so we can exclude def 5. def 6 also does not have no inherent dark. so, you use an online dictionary definition to prove... what? btw, your original quote: "Usually I consider something dark if it has a cynical or nihilistic view of the human condition." gosh, you reference a nihilistic view o' the human condition... and then balk when folks suggest you is using nihilism as a philosophical perspective? HA! HA! Good Fun! side note: there is actual multiple entries at dictionary.com. random house dictionary includes the def 3, but american heritage does not. so, is not even consensus 'mongst dictionaries, eh? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nihilism

dunno. as we said, we tested heavy pistol with and without cryo. with cryo were far more effective at reducing barriers. woulda' been a very strange collection o' crits to produce such results. HA! Good Fun!

no, it isn't. we found out by accident. was using a heavy pistol on a harbinger... had cryo ammo chosen. so we loaded up a save from illium where we fights eclipse mercenaries. again, we used heavy pistol with and without cryo. with cryo took down barrier fast. was on veteran difficulty. am not sure if is a bug or glitch, but clearly the heavy pistol, which is s'posed sucky v. barriers, were like a hot knife v. butter when cryo ammo were utilized. go figure. HA! Good Fun!

infiltrator were a good class for Gromnir to play through his first time. incinerate and tactical cloak were great powers; the cloak thing saved us more than once when we were 'bout to get mauled by a krogan or somesuch... go invisible and get some distance. overload warp incinerate based on our experience, those is the three most useful/essential powers, but maybe not the most fun. seeing jack do shockwave were kinda kewl. there is multiple places in the game where shockwave and throw results in insta death for baddies... knock off platform, bridge or ledge. the general consensus is that slam is crap, but combined with throw it is mighty effective... and it is fun to bounce an enemy who is hiding behind cover. ai hacking is very effective... but of very limited use. face waves of synthetics? how many such missions are there? turn a ymir mech into your ally? not a bad deal, but you cannot use that tactic often. the self-destructing combat drone (level 4) is a neato trick and can decimate enemies who use cover. never have used neural shock to any degree, but some folks swear by it. as an aside, the general thinking on cryo ammo is that it is sucky. Gromnir disagrees. not only does it freeze an enemy making that enemy immobile and more fragile, but am absolute certain that it strips barriers. between squad cryo ammo and incinerate we rare had to utilize the collector particle beam to deal with those pesky harbingers. not many enemies got biotic barriers, but collectors do. btw, we has no personal use for personal shields, barriers or fortification as a power choice. lack o' cover typical results in death in less than 3 seconds. a level 4 shield or fortification means you can survive outside cover for an additional 1.5 second? wow. sentinel looks like it is fun... access to throw, warp and overload? engineer ain't bad neither with overload, incinerate and the level 4 combat drone. our favorite is probable infiltrator with warp ammo as a bonus power. when we look at the numbers, the most effective is probable the soldier with the revenant assault rifle and warp ammo as a bonus power. dunno. HA! Good Fun!

"Bonus" weapons can only be used by Shep (if acquired on the Collector ship), or whoever gave you the research upgrade. Why? "Fabrication Rights Management". In fact it's just an excuse to gimp your squaddies even more. The game can be modded to allow squaddies to use these guns, but I recommend you finish your first playthrough "legit", so you get a good idea of what you might want to change in the future. Thanks for the info. Yeah, I'm going to finish my first playthrough "legit"... I always do, even though I sometimes go cheat crazy with later playthroughs (I like money, okay? ). I was just surprised because when I got the eviscerator and other upgrades, my squaddies could use them. Oh, well. And thanks to everyone who told me how to use the M-920 Cain. I took out with a single hit! am suspecting that you do not yet have legion as a jnpc. Gromnir never bothered to use legion as a squad-mate, but the notion o' a squadie with access to the widow sniper rifle suggests a high possibility for game breaking. the widow is an absolute terror weapon in skilled hands. now imagine both thane and legion equipped with widow... not needing to be concerned with ammo limitations as does the pc. HA! Good Fun!

yes. already done so. might wanna throw Heinlein into the mix. 'cause o' hitler's fascination with Nietzsche we got a baby and bathwater scenario, so Heinlein were hardly enjoying the nihilist label... but it stuck, and for good reason. his stories weren't particularly dark, but almost always involved the triumph o' human spirit in face o' adversity... even if it were society creating the adversity. the problem is that most fantasy/sf authors got the same misapprehension or fear o' nihilism that does the ordinary Joe on the street. nihilism = fascism and evil and other sorts o' stuff... death metal and goths. *snort* part o' the problem is the label. for instance, Nietzsche by no means believed that all human action were pointless... can't have ubermesch AND a philosophy that all human action is pointless, eh? the classic nihilist probable don't fit into mc's definition o' nihilism. HA! Good Fun!

as boo stated, nihilism ain't dark... is your pov or the artist's pov that makes dark. you clearly do not understand anything more than coffee shop goth or fantasy rpg pov o' nihilism if you is making the aforementioned statements. the acts o' the nihilist hero is damned important... to the hero himself, and to those who follow him. the nihilist hero's actions is not meaningful simply because he is fighting for good or light, but to suggest that such actions mean nothing is to completely misunderstand and misrepresent nihilism. as for examples... is more than a couple. many here is fans o' stephen brust and his taltos (sp?) books. is a classic nihilist hero. matthew woodring stover is likewise know for incorporating nihilism into his works... and he even has some star wars books to his name. Robert E. Howard were definitely tending towards dark, but one of his contemporaries, Fritz Leiber, had heroes and tales that far more... sunny. fafhrd and grey mouser, like conan, were rogues who weren't too picky 'bout the jobs they took. but they had a personal code and they sure had fun, no? writers such as Moor****, feist and Gaiman has suggested that they owe more to Leiber than to tolkien. gene wolf typically gets the dark and nihilism label, but recent wizard and knight books were hardly grim. if you wish, we can continue? HA! Good Fun!

am not seeing anybody in this thread making the claim you suggest. regardless, even if somebody was making such a claim, how does bg2 balance problems impact da:o balance? you is making complete nonsense arguments that got zippo impact on the issue at hand. might as well tell us that diablo 2 mages were just as imbalanced as da:o mages. who cares? so what? assuming vol is correct, why does existence of overpowered mages in a d&d game made a decade ago make one bit o' difference regarding the balance o' mages in a non-d&d game released in 2009? HA! Good Fun!

pray-tell, what does bg2 have to do with da:o balance? in any event, we doubt a powergamer would play through bg2 with 5 mages and a tank. experience were parceled out different, so am recalling that a 4 person party actual leveled and were tougher sooner than a six member party. ranger/cleric, kensai/mage a thief/mage combo o' some sort, and berserker or inquisitor were the most oft mentioned power-group we saw... never saw anybody other than vol suggest that 5 mages and a tank were best. but again, even if it were true, what does that have to do with da:o? you were mentioning logic earlier? try and guess which logic fallacy you is making. is a good exercise. HA! Good Fun!

Ok, now I sorta see where we differ. Your cause and effect is complitely opposite of mine. If you'd design nihilistic setting, denizens in it would *shrug* few times and get on with their insignificant lives and still live just about the same as they used to. In my nihilistic setting it would end up in flames or at least in complite collapse of the society. Might be "fun" PnP project. Something like world full of characters like Kevin Nealon's excellent Doug Wilson (from the Weeds). ... am thinking you is still missing. is very easy to envision dark nihilistic worlds where lack o' meaning = loss of hope. however, is hardly impossible to envision the opposite... is not Gromnir's view v. yours. is fact that Gromnir recognizes that nothing inherent in nihilism = dark. nihilism is. people add all their own baggage into the mix and end up with utopia or dystopia or some other topia. "The potion of re-spec shows how hopelessly unbalanced DA is" am wondering if developers recognize the problem with balance if respec has greater impact than difficulty slider. heck, alan were telling us contemp with game release that the general consensus 'mongst testers/developers were that the ultimate power group were 3 mages and a tank. shouldn't that have created some awareness 'mongst the developers that they had some balance concerns? now is possible tha the developers ain't genuine concerned with balance... which is fine. am not gonna agree that balance is unimportant, but we has seen such arguments made. 'course if balance ain't a concern, then we cannot guess why new powhaz and skills ain't usable in OC. HA! Good Fun

This is a pet hate of mine. Have Bio explained, perchance, why not? an odd choice. is pure conjecture, however, considering how fubar balance were in da:o, we doubt biowarians wanna try and make adjustments to compensate for the new host o' powhaz and spells. HA! Good Fun!

1) prove it... Gromnir has shown his posts. show yours. even so, that would still makes belated. Gromnir had argued on the bio da boards and elsewhere that the rogue/thief/skill-user/bard/ranger (and any of the other host o' possible names for the 3rd class) were unnecessary bloat from the moment bioware announced 3 classes for da. from that perspective, you were very late to the party. HA! Good Fun!

I use game quotes rather then real life quotes (those would just lead to endless counter quotes). In games (and in other creative media) you can deal with absolutes. You design world and setting to be something and thus by default they are what you designed 'em to be. In real world it'll be about what we BELIVE (or what we KNOW if we choose strong stance for or against something). no doubt you thinks the quote above means something. it don't. and why you sudden decide to throw ubiquitous nihilism into Thedas as some sorta proof is baffling to say the least. is hardly difficult to imagine a setting where people/beings do not believe in objective morality or Reasons for Existence w/o it being dark. postmodern fiction has become increasingly nihilistic, and while much such fiction is dark, not all is. God is Dead. fine. is impossible to imagine a period of mourning after which folks go on with their lives? nihilism is not inherent dark. btw, on the issue of the specific topic o' bio's making of da darkness, we think it is manifest unfair to use textbook or wiki definitions o' literary darkness. there is a great deal o' difference o' opinion regarding what makes for darkness in lit and games. regarding dark & mature, the developers was more than a little vague pre-release. even so, we were given to understand that da were gonna have more moral ambiguity and tough choices with no clear-cut good v. evil. bsg and george r.r. martin were big inspirations and we shoulds be expecting to see characters with complex motivations rather than the oversimplified nonsense that inevitably results from d&d alignment and star wars light v. dark. etc. am not holding bio to any definition o' dark and mature other than their own. given how little they said it shoulda' been easy to successful achieve dark and mature, no? "dark, but not too dark." HA! Good Fun!

even a busted clock is correct 2x a day. besides which, concerning bg2 and ps:t we typical disagree with your reasoning. fall from grace, for example, is a terribly developed character. nevertheless, vol thinks fall from grace is keen. even so, Gromnir has on numerous occasions, identified times and circumstances when vol made a valid argument. our faith in an ordered and rational universe is diminished when such stuff occurs, but we does not deny the increasingly slight possibility o' vol being correct. his belated agreement with Gromnir that the da rogue class were unnecessary is such an example. the fact that vol also were critical of some obvious tim cain blunders before toee release were surprising. vol is not always wrong, but such rarities simply add to the unpredictable wackiness that is vol. if you was wrong 100% o' the time then you would become dependable... which is equal unthinkable. also, for future reference, logic is not synonymous with reason or argument. vol, having never actual utilized logic would hardly be expected to recognize such a distinction, but Gromnir gives it a shot anyways. HA! Good Fun!

In the Witcher (I find that setting dark while others argue that there's nothing dark in it) your dwarf companion say something like this - "moral relativism has caused more misery then all the monsters and dragons combined". I liked that quote and if we accept that nihilism is the ultimate argument against any kind of morality ie. "nothing matters, not even my own actions", I can't see that as anything but a extremely dark view. quoting witcher? really? HA! "If they're made aware that those characters and events are not meaningful, they will perceive the work as being darker." this too is NOT nihilism. lack o' objective meaning or morality hardly robs characters and story of meaning. yet another coffee shop goth's pov o' nihilism. maria and nit should get together and write the definitive text on nihilism based on their experience with pc games. HA! Good Fun! ps so as to be more clear than is typical for us, we do not deny that the typical portrayal and perception o' nihilism is dark. "Life has no meaning? Dear God, whatever shall I do?" *snort* but again, that ain't nihilism. what you find to be dark is the typical perception and portrayal of nihilism as some kinda philosophical dead-end that robs folks o' hope and restraint. foolishness. don't confuse nihilism with nihilistic characters and stories you has witnessed. is not the nihilism that is dark, but only the artist/author's presentation.

the fact that vol likes it is a more scathing criticism o' the me2 resource acquisition scheme than any argument Gromnir could hope to devise. HA! Good Fun!

am always disappointed by folks who equate nihilism with dark; is a disturbingly myopic pov. HA! Good Fun! Are you saying that nihilism is not dark? there is nothing inherent dark about nihilism. death metal freaks and coffee shop goths has given nihilism a bad name... and of course the fact that nihilists and organized religions rare see eye-to-eye may exacerbate the issue a bit. lack o' objective meaning or morality does NOT = dark. Gromnir could very easy create a land o' fluffy bunnies frolicking in a nihilistic utopia w/o even a hint o' darkness in it. HA! Good Fun!

am always disappointed by folks who equate nihilism with dark; is a disturbingly myopic pov. HA! Good Fun!

as an aside, legion may be upgraded to use widow as well. HA! Good Fun!

You'd be surprised how many people on the bio forums find the mining enjoyable. They aren't the majority, but there is a significant number of them out there. am suspecting that there is some certain bio fans that will defend any dumb thing in a bio game. is a groupie phenomenon not limited to bio. can find similar behavior at nma/codex regarding tim cain/troika games. am having a hard time believing that more than the smallest fraction o' players find the resource acquisition scheme to be "strangely addictive." is NOT a mini-game in any meaningful sense... is mind-numbingly repetitive activity that requires no skill or strategy. if players were told that the only way to find 1007 or clues in a game were to be pixel-hunting, the vast majority of players would respond with anger or derision. nevertheless, bio has managed to sell glorified pixel hunts as a mini-game in me2? is even more ludicrous than their suggestion that the dialogue wheel were innovative. side note: we believe that casey hudson's tedious resource acquisition nonsense could be used quite effective as the basis for self-hypnosis experiments. while engaged in finding more platinum or iridium on some nameless planet in yet another otherwise empty and pointless galaxy map system, we discovered that our power animal were the woodchuck. go figure. HA! Good Fun!

This bio didn't want the da themes to be too dark. shoulda' seen some o' the feedback on the bio boards... would explain why the developers felt as if they could not push limits. also, keep in mind the biowarian pov... and that they were going for dark AND mature. sure, bg2 had rape and murdered children and a serial killer who watched silence o' the lambs far too many times for his own good, but there were almost always right v. wrong and good v. evil resolutions for the bg2 protagonist. with da, bioware were genuine attempting more moral ambiguity... but not too much moral ambiguity. _____, but not too _______ dark, but not too dark. mature, but not too mature. good, but not too good. *shrug* bio approach is very successful, but it will always leaves people at least marginal unsatisfied. if you attempts to please everybody, you cannot possibly hopes to complete satisfy anybody. after all, the Average Gamer doesn't actually exist. hardcore gamers? forget it, 'cause you is further away from the Average Gamer than is most bio fans. now don't get us wrong, we liked da very much and am looking forward to the sequels, but we has a hard time believing bio when they claims to be attempting innovation in gameplay or storytelling, 'cause innovation is far too risky for any developer so obviously dedicated to pleasing the Average Gamer. HA! Good Fun!